| Someone here said [message #181387] |
Thu, 23 August 2012 06:49  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Do NOT wire 12 volt batteries in parallel.
I picked up three 12 volt 18 ah 3 year old batteries at a hamfest for $15.00. I intended to use two of them to power my 12 volt refrigerator in my Blazer when I'm parked overnight. I wired 2 of them in parallel and have been testing them as a back up for my ham radio APRS I-gate for about 4 weeks.
Yesterday I put the 12 volt cooler and 2 batteries in the Blazer in preparation for my departure this morning. This morning I was in the garage under the hood checking my oil and other things when all of a sudden smoke started rolling out of the back of my Blazer. I mean a lot of smoke. It filled the garage in about 20 seconds. It was the batteries. I managed to pull the battery box out of the back of the Blazer and carted it outside. Then I got them separated which stopped the smoke source. Then end result is one of the batteries has a shorted cell. I had wired them with 16 gauge wire and the smoke was the wiring burning up. I had no fusing between them so the good battery was discharging into the shorted one. These are two identical batteries of the same age and manufacturer. They came out of a back up UPS on a routine maintenance change.
Wait a minute!
That guy that said on GMCnet not to put batteries in parallel WAS ME.
I hate it when I get caught not following my own recommendations.
DO NOT WIRE 12 VOLT BATTERIES IN PARALLEL
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Someone here said [message #181397 is a reply to message #181396] |
Thu, 23 August 2012 08:13  |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Electricity is powered by smoke. If you let the smoke out, it quits working. LOL
This is an excellent object for all of us, thanks, Ken for sharing
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Someone here said [message #181437 is a reply to message #181429] |
Thu, 23 August 2012 12:37 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| Jim Wagner wrote on Thu, 23 August 2012 11:50 |
Ken,
What is the proper way to use two 12v batteries if I go to a 120v ref?
Thanks
Jim Wagner
Brook Park, oh
That guy that said on GMCnet not to put batteries in parallel WAS ME.
I hate it when I get caught not following my own recommendations.
DO NOT WIRE 12 VOLT BATTERIES IN PARALLEL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
Use two 6 volt batteries in series. You will end up with the same total capacity without the danger involved.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Someone here said [message #181480 is a reply to message #181429] |
Thu, 23 August 2012 19:00 |
 |
ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Gary Bunzer's excellent article, "held hostage" by Family Motor Coach Magazine, addresses how to best finesse 12 volts.
<http://www.fmcmagazine.com/images/stories/pdf/battery_balance_jan2012.pdf>
But then I'm a paid-up member, so it don't matter to me no how.
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
A Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Wagner" <slwjmw@sbcglobal.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:50:58 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Someone here said
Ken,
What is the proper way to use two 12v batteries if I go to a 120v ref?
Thanks
Jim Wagner
Brook Park, oh
That guy that said on GMCnet not to put batteries in parallel WAS ME.
I hate it when I get caught not following my own recommendations.
DO NOT WIRE 12 VOLT BATTERIES IN PARALLEL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Someone here said [message #181481 is a reply to message #181480] |
Thu, 23 August 2012 19:15 |
|
ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That just doesn't read right - the article is Balance of Power, but it is being "held hostage" by FMC Magazine.
Oy...
Larry Davick
ljdavick@comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Davick" <ljdavick@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 5:00:36 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Someone here said
Gary Bunzer's excellent article, "held hostage" by Family Motor Coach Magazine, addresses how to best finesse 12 volts.
<http://www.fmcmagazine.com/images/stories/pdf/battery_balance_jan2012.pdf>
But then I'm a paid-up member, so it don't matter to me no how.
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
A Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Wagner" <slwjmw@sbcglobal.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:50:58 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Someone here said
Ken,
What is the proper way to use two 12v batteries if I go to a 120v ref?
Thanks
Jim Wagner
Brook Park, oh
That guy that said on GMCnet not to put batteries in parallel WAS ME.
I hate it when I get caught not following my own recommendations.
DO NOT WIRE 12 VOLT BATTERIES IN PARALLEL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
|
|
|
|
| Re: Someone here said [message #181524 is a reply to message #181416] |
Thu, 23 August 2012 21:48 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| GeorgeRud wrote on Thu, 23 August 2012 10:36 |
That line of electricity powered by smoke is precious! I have a few friends that I have to share that with.
|
George - it is not "precious", it is scientific. Look up the Wikipedia entry for "magic smoke". It is based on the 1667 work of Johann Joachim Becher and followed in 1772 with work by Daniel Rutherford.
Furthermore, in the following quote found on one of the leading Internet information suppliers website:
"Should the Blue Smoke Theory be taught in schools?
The Blue Smoke Theory states that electronic components work, not by the motion of charged particles across energy barriers, but by magic blue smoke which is contained in them.
"While nobody has ever seen an electron, and it is preposterous even to suggest that a hole could ever move anywhere, there have been many observed instances where blue smoke has escaped from an electronic device -- which then ceased to work.
"Many people in the field of electronics, including the majority of Microsoft-certified systems engineers, are abandoning traditional ideas concerning charged particles in favor of the Blue Smoke theory.
"Shouldn't both theories be given equal time in the classroom, in order for students to make up their own minds as to which one is better?"
Thus from this quote it is clear that the Theory of Blue Smoke (AKA "magic smoke") is being held hostage by the educational community to further their conspiracy to teach the invalid "Electron Theory" as the "Electron Theory" requires greater numbers of "professional educators" to present. Obviously the professional educators are perpetuating this SCAM to enrich themselves with cushy jobs.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Someone here said [message #181525 is a reply to message #181524] |
Thu, 23 August 2012 21:53 |
|
ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
My God - we've all been duped!
Larry Davick
On Aug 23, 2012, at 7:48 PM, Steve Southworth <midlf@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
>
> GeorgeRud wrote on Thu, 23 August 2012 10:36
>> That line of electricity powered by smoke is precious! I have a few friends that I have to share that with.
>
>
> George - it is not "precious", it is scientific. Look up the Wikipedia entry for "magic smoke". It is based on the 1667 work of Johann Joachim Becher and followed in 1772 with work by Daniel Rutherford.
>
> Furthermore, in the following quote found on one of the leading Internet information suppliers website:
>
> "Should the Blue Smoke Theory be taught in schools?
> The Blue Smoke Theory states that electronic components work, not by the motion of charged particles across energy barriers, but by magic blue smoke which is contained in them.
>
> "While nobody has ever seen an electron, and it is preposterous even to suggest that a hole could ever move anywhere, there have been many observed instances where blue smoke has escaped from an electronic device -- which then ceased to work.
>
> "Many people in the field of electronics, including the majority of Microsoft-certified systems engineers, are abandoning traditional ideas concerning charged particles in favor of the Blue Smoke theory.
>
> "Shouldn't both theories be given equal time in the classroom, in order for students to make up their own minds as to which one is better?"
>
> Thus from this quote it is clear that the Theory of Blue Smoke (AKA "magic smoke") is being held hostage by the educational community to further their conspiracy to teach the invalid "Electron Theory" as the "Electron Theory" requires greater numbers of "professional educators" to present. Obviously the professional educators are perpetuating this SCAM to enrich themselves with cushy jobs.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
> _______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Someone here said [message #181528 is a reply to message #181525] |
Thu, 23 August 2012 22:08 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| ljdavick wrote on Thu, 23 August 2012 21:53 |
My God - we've all been duped!
Larry Davick
|
But Wait There's More:
Magic Smoke.
It has long been established that Magic Smoke is what makes electrical and electronic items work. It has been observed time and time again that if the Magic Smoke is let out of a component, the circuit that the component is in stops working.
The installation of Magic Smoke is done at component manufacture, but the smoke is known to leak out a bit when soldering takes place, hence the solder has some extra Magic Smoke in it to ensure that components are "topped up" as they are affixed.
Once the Magic Smoke is fully released it is impossible to replace and a new packet of the smoke, with the correct characteristics, will need to be installed.
AND
Electronical components containing magic smoke
The first component which was built around the knowledge of magic smoke was the electrolytic capacitor, which uses the magic smoke chemically bound to ceramic wool in order to keep it contained. However, passing current in the "wrong" direction through the capacitor causes the weak bond between the ceramic wool and the smoke to break. The smoke becomes a gas and expands, breaking the casing of the capacitor with a loud "pop" sound. Thereafter even if the capacitor is reassembled it no longer works.
This use of magic smoke was so successful that it was adopted for use in silicon and germanium diodes and transistors. Thereafter it became an important constituent of integrated circuits.
It is demonstrably proven that a component will continue to perform until the magic smoke is observed to leave, at which point the component no longer performs. In this sense it is similar to the copulatory habits of the male human being.
There - nuff said!!!
Note - I did not make this up. I found all this on the internet, so therefore it must be true.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Someone here said [message #181537 is a reply to message #181470] |
Thu, 23 August 2012 23:52 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yes it would. I bought 3 batteries. One is now junk. I wired up the remaining two again with 18 gauge wire and a 10 amp fuse between them. That is 2.5 times time the total amount of current draw for the cooler. It is above my estimate of current that one of those batteries should take when charging. I discharged those batteries down to 11 volts today while the Blazer was parked. I later drove it and and during recharging the fuse did not blow. There is a second 10 amp fuse inline between the pair of batteries and the cooler that all current both charging and discharging of the pair flows through. Keep in mind that I'm only working with a pair of 18 amp-hour UPS batteries. The two of them together are about the size of a garden tractor battery.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Someone here said [message #181582 is a reply to message #181560] |
Fri, 24 August 2012 13:02 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| Matt Colie wrote on Fri, 24 August 2012 09:01 |
Steve,
There is also an important function of electronic assembly that gets missed. The "Burn-In" - How did you think that got just the right amount of magic smoke in the correct places?
But - You have completely ignored the function of the mirrors..
They are there, small but there. Remember the UV erasable PROMs. Those even had a window such that one could see the mirror inside.
Matt
|
Ah yes - smoke and mirrors. I.E. magic, also known as FM. All too often modern electronics looks like FM to me. And I even had all the electron hole flow stuff in school. along with vacuum tube theory. I wonder if they even cover vacuum tube theory at all, even a mention of it, in the EE curriculum these days.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
|
|
|
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
So glad you did not burn the Blazer up and the house down. Where are you headed? Come meet us in Indy Sunday or Monday. Hope to have the tracker in the new car tomorrow.
