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[GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180797] Sun, 19 August 2012 08:38 Go to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
G'day,

I've been having problems connecting to cyberspace for a few days so I couldn't check in. At any rate we're safe and sound sitting
on Emery and Michelle's driveway in Frederick.

We had a nice time visiting my Cousin and a great evening with Tom and Cynthia Logue. They own one of the GMC's that's in this years
calendar. Nice looking unit.

For some reason I didn't sleep very well the night before we left my Cousin's place in GJ, we didn't pull out until just before
lunch. Drove past a Taco Bell and since Helen hadn't had her favorite (Chalupa) we stopped. At any rate after lunch I drove for
about 20 minutes and I got real dozy. Stopped, walked around the coach a few times - did some jumping jacks and off we went. Didn't
help much so we only made it as far as Gypsum and I decided not to chance falling asleep. Spent the night at a nice place and took
off the next morning for Frederick.

As I had noted earlier the little Facet pump plumbed into the AUX tank works well at sea level and on level ground; climbing steep
grades results in the fuel running to the rear (Main) tank. This reduces the help the Facet pump can provide battling vapor lock. It
has to work harder to suck the fuel out of a half empty AUX tank. To overcome this problem I filled up at Costco in Gypsum to the
max. I learned that the check valve in the wheel well wasn't working properly as I left a patch of gas under the charcoal canister
when I pulled away from the pump.

We then proceeded to Vail. As we started up hill our speed dropped and when we hit 30 I dropped it into "S" and it accelerated
slightly t0 35 and up the pass we went in the right lane with the emergency flashers blinking. NO PROBLEM!

Going down was also a non event thanks to the 80mm calipers on the front and middle disks and carbon metallic pads. Every so often
I'd just touch the pedal for few seconds to slow down.

I had planned on stopping at Silverthorne and filling up again but when I checked the fuel gage in MAIN and AUX it read full and
damn near full so we continued on. BIG MISTAKE! I forgot how inaccurate the reading can be.

As we proceeded up to the Eisenhower Tunnel Helen had her iPad on her lap and read out the elevations. Everything was OK until we
hit around 9000 feet. Same drill in the right lane - in "S." The first time the engine hiccupped I switched to AUX and everything
was fine - FOR AWHILE. When we hit 10,000 feet (give or take a bit) the fun began. The engine would surge as if it was starving for
gas (which it was) but it kept running. With the entrance to the tunnel in sight, as I began to breathe a sigh of relief - IT
STALLED. Fortunately I was in the far right lane and thanks to my auxiliary vacuum pump I stopped. I sat there for about a minute or
so and switched back to MAIN and hit the key. Fortunately it started right up and I immediately put it in "L" and off we crawled at
about 10-15 mph. We made it to the entrance of the tunnel and I shifted up to "S" until I got a bit more momentum up then into "D."
The trip down was no problem.

Bottom line: the Facet pump plumbed in between the AUX tank and the selector valve works in steep climbs IF you keep both tanks as
full as possible.

Regards,
Rob M.


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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180799 is a reply to message #180797] Sun, 19 August 2012 08:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr ERFisher is currently offline  Mr ERFisher   United States
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Registered: August 2005
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Senior Member
>
> Bottom line: the Facet pump plumbed in between the AUX tank and the
> selector valve works in steep climbs IF you keep both tanks as
> full as possible.
>
> and
if you ran an electric pump all the time??
you would not have this trauma?

sorry for your problems
gene


--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
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Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180803 is a reply to message #180797] Sun, 19 August 2012 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gbarrow2 is currently offline  gbarrow2   United States
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
Senior Member
Rob,
The PO of 76 Palm Beach had installed an aux elec pump. It is located down stream from the tank selector valve with an illuminated switch located on the dash left of the steering wheel.
Mechanical pump is still in place.
I operate the elec pump just as you do; just a different switch.

This configuration allows the pump to pull from either tank which would eliminate your low fuel in front tank problem- only occurs when you REALLY need it.

The pump has worked flawlessly for 10+ years and nearing 100,000 miles. Including lots of mountain driving.

Replaced the dash mounted switch twice- because the light burned out.

I assume Jim B. uses the tank selector switch because it's simpler than adding another wire and switch. Works fine in the flats; not so well in the hills when fuel is low.

I enjoy your trip reports but I can't find the pictures!
Are you sitting home in Sydney and just making this stuff up?



Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180812 is a reply to message #180797] Sun, 19 August 2012 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WD0AFQ is currently offline  WD0AFQ   United States
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Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
Senior Member
Gene, I am with you, no pictures then Rob is making this crap up from his desk on the island down under. I just emailed him and told him I want to see picture of Emery and Michelle or he ain't there.
Dan


3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm 355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng. Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180816 is a reply to message #180797] Sun, 19 August 2012 13:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marc Hogenboom[2] is currently offline  Marc Hogenboom[2]   United States
Messages: 70
Registered: March 2011
Karma: 0
Member
Hi Rob, sorry to hear about your vapor lock problems.
What I don’t get is why you don’t run an electrical pump on the main tank as
well.
Could someone please explain this " fix"?

Marc Hogenboom
'73 Painted Desert Diesel
Madrid NM

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: Rob Mueller
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 7:38 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick

G'day,

I've been having problems connecting to cyberspace for a few days so I
couldn't check in. At any rate we're safe and sound sitting
on Emery and Michelle's driveway in Frederick.

We had a nice time visiting my Cousin and a great evening with Tom and
Cynthia Logue. They own one of the GMC's that's in this years
calendar. Nice looking unit.

For some reason I didn't sleep very well the night before we left my
Cousin's place in GJ, we didn't pull out until just before
lunch. Drove past a Taco Bell and since Helen hadn't had her favorite
(Chalupa) we stopped. At any rate after lunch I drove for
about 20 minutes and I got real dozy. Stopped, walked around the coach a few
times - did some jumping jacks and off we went. Didn't
help much so we only made it as far as Gypsum and I decided not to chance
falling asleep. Spent the night at a nice place and took
off the next morning for Frederick.

As I had noted earlier the little Facet pump plumbed into the AUX tank works
well at sea level and on level ground; climbing steep
grades results in the fuel running to the rear (Main) tank. This reduces the
help the Facet pump can provide battling vapor lock. It
has to work harder to suck the fuel out of a half empty AUX tank. To
overcome this problem I filled up at Costco in Gypsum to the
max. I learned that the check valve in the wheel well wasn't working
properly as I left a patch of gas under the charcoal canister
when I pulled away from the pump.

We then proceeded to Vail. As we started up hill our speed dropped and when
we hit 30 I dropped it into "S" and it accelerated
slightly t0 35 and up the pass we went in the right lane with the emergency
flashers blinking. NO PROBLEM!

Going down was also a non event thanks to the 80mm calipers on the front and
middle disks and carbon metallic pads. Every so often
I'd just touch the pedal for few seconds to slow down.

I had planned on stopping at Silverthorne and filling up again but when I
checked the fuel gage in MAIN and AUX it read full and
damn near full so we continued on. BIG MISTAKE! I forgot how inaccurate the
reading can be.

As we proceeded up to the Eisenhower Tunnel Helen had her iPad on her lap
and read out the elevations. Everything was OK until we
hit around 9000 feet. Same drill in the right lane - in "S." The first time
the engine hiccupped I switched to AUX and everything
was fine - FOR AWHILE. When we hit 10,000 feet (give or take a bit) the fun
began. The engine would surge as if it was starving for
gas (which it was) but it kept running. With the entrance to the tunnel in
sight, as I began to breathe a sigh of relief - IT
STALLED. Fortunately I was in the far right lane and thanks to my auxiliary
vacuum pump I stopped. I sat there for about a minute or
so and switched back to MAIN and hit the key. Fortunately it started right
up and I immediately put it in "L" and off we crawled at
about 10-15 mph. We made it to the entrance of the tunnel and I shifted up
to "S" until I got a bit more momentum up then into "D."
The trip down was no problem.

Bottom line: the Facet pump plumbed in between the AUX tank and the selector
valve works in steep climbs IF you keep both tanks as
full as possible.

Regards,
Rob M.


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Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180819 is a reply to message #180816] Sun, 19 August 2012 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
midlf is currently offline  midlf   United States
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Marc Hogenboom[2

wrote on Sun, 19 August 2012 13:37]Hi Rob, sorry to hear about your vapor lock problems.
What I don't get is why you don't run an electrical pump on the main tank as
well.
Could someone please explain this " fix"?

Marc Hogenboom



This "fix" is a quick easy trick promoted by JimB. It involves connecting an electric pump in the fuel line from the aux tank to the selector valve. The power supply for the pump is taken from the selector valve power lead. It is a very easy, quick, effective fix. The main advantage is all work is located within 18", no extra wires, switches, or circuits are required. As the main tank is usually run it minimizes the, very slight, risk of fuel into the crankcase that could come from the very rare mechanical pump diaphragm failure.


Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180830 is a reply to message #180816] Sun, 19 August 2012 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gbarrow2 is currently offline  gbarrow2   United States
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
Senior Member
Marc,

I 'splained how to fix the fix. Just takes a separate switch and some extra wire, and a new hole in the dash, depending where you mount the switch.

Jim's fix is quick and easy. Fixin' the fix will solve Rob's and other's low fuel problem in the hills.


Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180838 is a reply to message #180830] Sun, 19 August 2012 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marc Hogenboom[2] is currently offline  Marc Hogenboom[2]   United States
Messages: 70
Registered: March 2011
Karma: 0
Member
So the reason to run the el. pump just on the aux tank is that it's easy?
One extra wire from the ignition and an el. pump after the selector cant be
al that hard, can it?
And it is easy to delete the mechanical pump.
My diesel runs on el. pumps only, and diesel doesn't even vapor lock.

Marc Hogenboom
'73 Panted Desert Diesel
Madrid NM


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: gene barrow
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 2:45 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick



Marc,

I 'splained how to fix the fix. Just takes a separate switch and some extra
wire, and a new hole in the dash, depending where you mount the switch.

Jim's fix is quick and easy. Fixin' the fix will solve Rob's and other's low
fuel problem in the hills.
--
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180882 is a reply to message #180838] Sun, 19 August 2012 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gbarrow2 is currently offline  gbarrow2   United States
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Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
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Senior Member
Marc,
I think that's it. Steve S. says the same thing.

I don't see any other reason for doing it that way. Simple, but as Rob has discovered simple may not have been good enough in some situations.

Maybe some one with a different opinion can enlighten us.


Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180888 is a reply to message #180838] Sun, 19 August 2012 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
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Location: Tucson, AZ.
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Marc Hogenboom[2

wrote on Sun, 19 August 2012 14:46]So the reason to run the el. pump just on the aux tank is that it's easy?
One extra wire from the ignition and an el. pump after the selector cant be
al that hard, can it?
And it is easy to delete the mechanical pump.
My diesel runs on el. pumps only, and diesel doesn't even vapor lock.

Marc Hogenboom
'73 Panted Desert Diesel
Madrid NM






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When you put it that way it DOES seem kind of lame.


Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180891 is a reply to message #180838] Sun, 19 August 2012 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
midlf is currently offline  midlf   United States
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Marc Hogenboom wrote on Sun, 19 August 2012 16:46

So the reason to run the el. pump just on the aux tank is that it's easy?

Marc Hogenboom



Yes


Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180902 is a reply to message #180882] Mon, 20 August 2012 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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gbarrow wrote on Sun, 19 August 2012 21:44

Marc,
I think that's it. Steve S. says the same thing.

I don't see any other reason for doing it that way. Simple, but as Rob has discovered simple may not have been good enough in some situations.

Maybe some one with a different opinion can enlighten us.


It works fine on flat land, but it is not very good when climbing hills. If I were doing that I would switch the pickup and gas gauges so the primary tank is the front one.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180904 is a reply to message #180902] Mon, 20 August 2012 05:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mickeysss is currently offline  mickeysss   United States
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go up the hill backwards.

mickey
77 palm beach\
anaheim ca.


On Aug 19, 2012, at 11:35 PM, Ken Burton wrote:

>
>
> gbarrow wrote on Sun, 19 August 2012 21:44
>> Marc,
>> I think that's it. Steve S. says the same thing.
>>
>> I don't see any other reason for doing it that way. Simple, but as Rob has discovered simple may not have been good enough in some situations.
>>
>> Maybe some one with a different opinion can enlighten us.
>
>
> It works fine on flat land, but it is not very good when climbing hills. If I were doing that I would switch the pickup and gas gauges so the primary tank is the front one.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #180912 is a reply to message #180797] Mon, 20 August 2012 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steven Ferguson is currently offline  Steven Ferguson   United States
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Senior Member
That reads exactly like our first trip through the E tunnel.

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:

> G'day,
>
> I've been having problems connecting to cyberspace for a few days so I
> couldn't check in. At any rate we're safe and sound sitting
> on Emery and Michelle's driveway in Frederick.
>
> We had a nice time visiting my Cousin and a great evening with Tom and
> Cynthia Logue. They own one of the GMC's that's in this years
> calendar. Nice looking unit.
>
> For some reason I didn't sleep very well the night before we left my
> Cousin's place in GJ, we didn't pull out until just before
> lunch. Drove past a Taco Bell and since Helen hadn't had her favorite
> (Chalupa) we stopped. At any rate after lunch I drove for
> about 20 minutes and I got real dozy. Stopped, walked around the coach a
> few times - did some jumping jacks and off we went. Didn't
> help much so we only made it as far as Gypsum and I decided not to chance
> falling asleep. Spent the night at a nice place and took
> off the next morning for Frederick.
>
> As I had noted earlier the little Facet pump plumbed into the AUX tank
> works well at sea level and on level ground; climbing steep
> grades results in the fuel running to the rear (Main) tank. This reduces
> the help the Facet pump can provide battling vapor lock. It
> has to work harder to suck the fuel out of a half empty AUX tank. To
> overcome this problem I filled up at Costco in Gypsum to the
> max. I learned that the check valve in the wheel well wasn't working
> properly as I left a patch of gas under the charcoal canister
> when I pulled away from the pump.
>
> We then proceeded to Vail. As we started up hill our speed dropped and
> when we hit 30 I dropped it into "S" and it accelerated
> slightly t0 35 and up the pass we went in the right lane with the
> emergency flashers blinking. NO PROBLEM!
>
> Going down was also a non event thanks to the 80mm calipers on the front
> and middle disks and carbon metallic pads. Every so often
> I'd just touch the pedal for few seconds to slow down.
>
> I had planned on stopping at Silverthorne and filling up again but when I
> checked the fuel gage in MAIN and AUX it read full and
> damn near full so we continued on. BIG MISTAKE! I forgot how inaccurate
> the reading can be.
>
> As we proceeded up to the Eisenhower Tunnel Helen had her iPad on her lap
> and read out the elevations. Everything was OK until we
> hit around 9000 feet. Same drill in the right lane - in "S." The first
> time the engine hiccupped I switched to AUX and everything
> was fine - FOR AWHILE. When we hit 10,000 feet (give or take a bit) the
> fun began. The engine would surge as if it was starving for
> gas (which it was) but it kept running. With the entrance to the tunnel in
> sight, as I began to breathe a sigh of relief - IT
> STALLED. Fortunately I was in the far right lane and thanks to my
> auxiliary vacuum pump I stopped. I sat there for about a minute or
> so and switched back to MAIN and hit the key. Fortunately it started right
> up and I immediately put it in "L" and off we crawled at
> about 10-15 mph. We made it to the entrance of the tunnel and I shifted up
> to "S" until I got a bit more momentum up then into "D."
> The trip down was no problem.
>
> Bottom line: the Facet pump plumbed in between the AUX tank and the
> selector valve works in steep climbs IF you keep both tanks as
> full as possible.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>



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Fathom the hypocrisy of a nation where every citizen must prove they have
health insurance......but not everyone has to prove they're a citizen.
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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Re: [GMCnet] Grand Junction - Gypsum - Frederick [message #181375 is a reply to message #180799] Wed, 22 August 2012 23:10 Go to previous message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
Gene,

The nice thing about JimB's fix is that it is extremely simple, easy to do, and CHEAP! The Facet pump he uses costs something like
$40.

No I don't think it would have helped. I reckon the problem with this fix is that when the fuel level in the AUX tank gets too low
the Facet pump can't "pull" enough out to feed mechanical fuel pump with enough pressure. I tried switching back to MAIN but the
problem got worse.

Not a big problem from Frederick onwards - it's downhill! ;-)

Regards,
Rob M.


-----Original Message-----
From: gene Fisher

if you ran an electric pump all the time??

you would not have this trauma?

sorry for your problems
gene

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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