Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan
| [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180367] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 11:54  |
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USAussie
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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G'day,
I find it interesting that we discuss rebuilding engines, transmissions, final drives, etc. yet I haven't read (or remember) about
anyone totally rebuilding an Onan and what the results were.
Regards,
Rob M.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180370 is a reply to message #180367] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 12:04  |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
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Rob, That would be an ambitious project. Parts might be a bit pricey. Never mind, some may not be available. It would be interesting, if one had the spare Onan to play with, and the time/money equation would work. I believe that the carb kit is unavailable and the control board would need a rebuild. I know that many have nursed their Onans along, but I have never heard of any one doing a tear-down and re-build.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180371 is a reply to message #180367] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 12:07 |
Dennis S
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Registered: November 2005
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 15 August 2012 11:54 |
G'day,
I find it interesting that we discuss rebuilding engines, transmissions, final drives, etc. yet I haven't read (or remember) about
anyone totally rebuilding an Onan and what the results were.
Regards,
Rob M.
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Rob,
Only the photo album by Cathy-Ron and someone in Phoenix rebuilds them, from memory Chris may have gotten one from him....
http://www.cathy-ron.com/GMC%20Generator.html
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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 Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180385 is a reply to message #180373] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 14:38 |
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Scooby Doo
Messages: 92
Registered: May 2012
Location: Miami, Florida
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I would like to chime in here, and say that I am very interested in hearing where this thread goes.
My ONAN 6000 only has 200 hours on it (and runs great), but should something go wrong with it, it is my intension to fix it and keep my GMC as stock as possible.
My wife & I love our GMC just the way it is. I feel that with so many very smart people out there on this GMC.net website that there is always a way to fix these older pieces of equipment.
As Mr. Robert Mueller said :
(I find it interesting that we discuss rebuilding engines, transmissions, final drives, etc. yet I haven't read (or remember) about
anyone totally rebuilding an Onan and what the results were.)
As time goes on, I feel that things are built with less care and reliability.
My generator is as old as my motorhome (1976) and I feel that people & companies made better products then, than what is available on the market today.
Even if the costs are more, I feel that a reliable, well made product is worth it.
Just my 2 cents worth.
G2 
Glenn & Elaine Gardner...
Miami, Florida...
1976 Royale (transmode)
TZE366V100733
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180398 is a reply to message #180385] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 16:10 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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My hour meter was stopped at 604.7 hours and I've no idea how long it had be stuck. I grabbed an hour meter from ebay and now my Onan seems to be new! What I didn't expect is that these meters tick like an old-fashioned clock.
I can see benefits to newer designs - better economy, smoother running, quieter. But the advantage of "it's already paid for" trumps most of that for me! Also my Onan has been very reliable, once I replaced the starter bracket.
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
A Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Gardner" <G2photos@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 12:38:40 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan
I would like to chime in here, and say that I am very interested in hearing where this thread goes.
My ONAN 6000 only has 200 hours on it (and runs great), but should something go wrong with it, it is my intension to fix it and keep my GMC as stock as possible.
My wife & I love our GMC just the way it is. I feel that with so many very smart people out there on this GMC.net website that there is always a way to fix these older pieces of equipment.
As Mr. Robert Mueller said :
(I find it interesting that we discuss rebuilding engines, transmissions, final drives, etc. yet I haven't read (or remember) about
anyone totally rebuilding an Onan and what the results were.)
As time goes on, I feel that things are built with less care and reliability.
My generator is as old as my motorhome (1976) and I feel that people & companies made better products then, than what is available on the market today.
Even if the costs are more, I feel that a reliable, well made product is worth it.
Just my 2 cents worth.
G2 :)
--
Glenn & Elaine Gardner...
Miami, Florida...
1976 Royale (transmode)
TZE366V100733
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180403 is a reply to message #180398] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 17:15 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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A major advantage to the Onan which may not be appreciated is the 1800 rpm engine speed. And, the plus of the mass of iron, 440 pounds, leads to a lower noise level. Even the Honda is noisier at speed, 3600 rpm and 220 pounds.
Would be nice to have a "sealed" inverter design, designed to be very quiet up front, then fold it into the GMC compartment. Market might be small.
Improvements to Mr. Onan, would include total eletronically controlled ignition, ala Pertronics, new solid state control board, and a new choke. A new carb is also needed, since the current carb is not available.
I think the Onan is a proven design that could stand some modernization, but a unified development that could be understood. If everyone continues to wander on the path of modernization, many different ideas or solutions will be offered. Again, a small market.
You should have seen the air cooled single cylinder generator that was installed in my GMC. I gave it away for the simple take it out of my coach price. It was gone about two hours after I offered it up.
Tom, MS II, with two Honda, none for sale
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180406 is a reply to message #180403] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 17:45 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
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Tom,
That's a very interesting discussion topic. I've asked my buddy who owns a good-sized "sheet-metal" shop if he could help me make a Pertronix mount (bracket) that would be nearly plug-and-play. I'm thinking we'll key the mount off of the two shroud bolts and have some adjustability as to timing advance. Offering this might negate the hurdle of crafting your own mount for us light-weight shade-tree types. I'd be interested in any input from this list as to this idea.
A solid state control board would be nice, particularly with the complaints I've heard about the Dinosaur board's reliability. I don't know if its factual, and just mentioning it (and perpetuating the rumor) makes me cringe, as I have no experience with their boards, but it's just what I've heard.
The carb? Why not make it easily configurable for dual-fuel (gasoline and propane) use? Aside from the obvious benefits of being able to run off of propane if low on gasoline, there is also the benefit of cleaning out the carbon from time to time when running on propane. I wonder how the modern fuel injected generators are set up.
I like this conversation!
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
A Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Phipps" <tph1pp5@yahoo.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 3:15:59 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan
A major advantage to the Onan which may not be appreciated is the 1800 rpm engine speed. And, the plus of the mass of iron, 440 pounds, leads to a lower noise level. Even the Honda is noisier at speed, 3600 rpm and 220 pounds.
Would be nice to have a "sealed" inverter design, designed to be very quiet up front, then fold it into the GMC compartment. Market might be small.
Improvements to Mr. Onan, would include total eletronically controlled ignition, ala Pertronics, new solid state control board, and a new choke. A new carb is also needed, since the current carb is not available.
I think the Onan is a proven design that could stand some modernization, but a unified development that could be understood. If everyone continues to wander on the path of modernization, many different ideas or solutions will be offered. Again, a small market.
You should have seen the air cooled single cylinder generator that was installed in my GMC. I gave it away for the simple take it out of my coach price. It was gone about two hours after I offered it up.
Tom, MS II, with two Honda, none for sale
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180420 is a reply to message #180367] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 19:59 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
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Not trying to spam the thread but I've got the 6000W Onan that is in my coach that would make a great rebuild project. The meter showed 1600 hours but it was in a flood. It would need to be totally gone through. I'm not going to use it and don't know why it would not be rebuildable. Electronics might not have liked the water but usually once electronics dry out they'll be OK. There is silt most everywhere there was water and it probably got in the engine/carb. You'd need to do a complete teardown.
I don't know about the condition but it has lots of good expensive parts on it and may run with some TLC. I'll take $300 for it. It's in Huntsville, Al.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180422 is a reply to message #180406] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 20:07 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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The control board could be replaced with one of the small PIC ( computers) carrying the logic load. Figure out the sensors needed and write the software to replicate the action of the OEM control board. Easy to add a solenoid controlled choke routine, based on exhaust temperature. The PIC could also control the spark, but the Pertronics system already exists.
I'm saying this with only a very light knowledge of the programming involved. Parallax makes a small PIC with 8 CPUs. One CPU per input/ output. Video out, but I suspect that you would only need the video for initial set-up. Perhaps Bryon might add to this discussion. Since I have no Onan, I have only a small interest on this project.
More interested in using a PIC to replicate a "glass cockpit" display. Do all the gauges with software, and add data logging to the mix. I'm going to start with a temperature routine, then move to tachometer.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180440 is a reply to message #180422] |
Wed, 15 August 2012 21:56 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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The reason you never hear of anyone rebuilding an ONAN generator engine is,
simply put, that no one does it. The engine is engineered for 2500 hours of
service, properly maintained. My 78 Royale, which I am sitting in presently
in Saskatoon with it purring along. It has never been apart, and presently
has 297.7 hours on the clock. It is quiet enough that I can hear the engine
hour meter ticking. If the oil and filters are changed on schedule, and the
engine is exercized once in a while, they will last longer than the rest of
the coach. There is a lot to be said for "stone age technology".
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Thomas Phipps <tph1pp5@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> The control board could be replaced with one of the small PIC ( computers)
> carrying the logic load. Figure out the sensors needed and write the
> software to replicate the action of the OEM control board. Easy to add a
> solenoid controlled choke routine, based on exhaust temperature. The PIC
> could also control the spark, but the Pertronics system already exists.
> I'm saying this with only a very light knowledge of the programming
> involved. Parallax makes a small PIC with 8 CPUs. One CPU per input/
> output. Video out, but I suspect that you would only need the video for
> initial set-up. Perhaps Bryon might add to this discussion. Since I have
> no Onan, I have only a small interest on this project.
> More interested in using a PIC to replicate a "glass cockpit" display. Do
> all the gauges with software, and add data logging to the mix. I'm going
> to start with a temperature routine, then move to tachometer.
> Tom, MS II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180469 is a reply to message #180373] |
Thu, 16 August 2012 07:51 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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The only problem with rebuilding one is theparts cost, since there doesn't seem to be a lot of aftermarket availability and Onan is insanely proud of them. There's no magic in the thing whatsoever though, it's simply a pair of flathead lawnmower engines facing each other on one shaft.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan
Dennis,
Thanks!
I forgot about Ron's rebuild. If he did it why can't other people! It would be nice to know how much time / money he spent on the
Onan.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Sexton
Rob,
Only the photo album by Cathy-Ron and someone in Phoenix rebuilds them, from memory Chris may have gotten one from him....
http://www.cathy-ron.com/GMC%20Generator.html
Dennis
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180472 is a reply to message #180403] |
Thu, 16 August 2012 08:11 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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If I were gonna update mine, I'd use the Onan injection system and controls. Since the design is optimized for 1800 rpm steady, I wouldn't be interested in adding an inverter - and I'd hate to lose the surge capacity of the Onan. Once all that weight is spinning, it has a hell of an inertia stored up, and will sustain an incredible surge without damage.
I will note however, with regular maijntenance we have had them run happily for years.
--johnny
'76 transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Thomas Phipps <tph1pp5@yahoo.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan
A major advantage to the Onan which may not be appreciated is the 1800 rpm engine speed. And, the plus of the mass of iron, 440 pounds, leads to a lower noise level. Even the Honda is noisier at speed, 3600 rpm and 220 pounds.
Would be nice to have a "sealed" inverter design, designed to be very quiet up front, then fold it into the GMC compartment. Market might be small.
Improvements to Mr. Onan, would include total eletronically controlled ignition, ala Pertronics, new solid state control board, and a new choke. A new carb is also needed, since the current carb is not available.
I think the Onan is a proven design that could stand some modernization, but a unified development that could be understood. If everyone continues to wander on the path of modernization, many different ideas or solutions will be offered. Again, a small market.
You should have seen the air cooled single cylinder generator that was installed in my GMC. I gave it away for the simple take it out of my coach price. It was gone about two hours after I offered it up.
Tom, MS II, with two Honda, none for sale
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180482 is a reply to message #180469] |
Thu, 16 August 2012 09:32 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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| Johnny Bridges wrote on Thu, 16 August 2012 08:51 |
The only problem with rebuilding one is theparts cost, since there doesn't seem to be a lot of aftermarket availability and Onan is insanely proud of them. There's no magic in the thing whatsoever though, it's simply a pair of flathead lawnmower engines facing each other on one shaft.
--johnny
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Has anybody searched the aftermarket suppliers for the essential components?
As an ex-aftermarket guy, I think this might be a good route. I know Onan/Cummins does not manufacture pistons, piston rings, bearings and seals. If they buy those parts, we should be able to find another source. They still won't be cheap, but they might be more affordable.
There are a whole lot of Onan twins in service in lots of places, there have got to be people doing repair work on them.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180599 is a reply to message #180367] |
Fri, 17 August 2012 06:45 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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With routine maintenance, an engine that operates at 1,800 rpm should last
forever. Mine had thousands of hours on it and it ran perfect. I resealed
the thing once, bead blasted the cyl heads, etc and it just purred. I
think the only Onan that will ever need rebuilding will be one that was run
low, or out of, oil. At that point, I think I'd just dig one out of Jim
B's pile before I'd fork over grand theft for the cost of parts and a
rebuild.
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I find it interesting that we discuss rebuilding engines, transmissions,
> final drives, etc. yet I haven't read (or remember) about
> anyone totally rebuilding an Onan and what the results were.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Fathom the hypocrisy of a nation where every citizen must prove they have
health insurance......but not everyone has to prove they're a citizen.
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180616 is a reply to message #180599] |
Fri, 17 August 2012 08:40 |
Arthur Mansfield
Messages: 290
Registered: April 2010
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How does one stop the oil leaks and keep them running under AC load for more than two hours. he il dripping on the muffler just does not make me feel good. Mine runs all day under light load (lost power to the house and used the generator) but quits under the AC load after about two hours. It starts to surge then quits. I replace the coil and no change it still does the same thing.
Art & Doris
76 EL
Decatur AL
On Aug 17, 2012, at 6:45 AM, Steven Ferguson wrote:
> With routine maintenance, an engine that operates at 1,800 rpm should last
> forever. Mine had thousands of hours on it and it ran perfect. I resealed
> the thing once, bead blasted the cyl heads, etc and it just purred. I
> think the only Onan that will ever need rebuilding will be one that was run
> low, or out of, oil. At that point, I think I'd just dig one out of Jim
> B's pile before I'd fork over grand theft for the cost of parts and a
> rebuild.
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
>
>> G'day,
>>
>> I find it interesting that we discuss rebuilding engines, transmissions,
>> final drives, etc. yet I haven't read (or remember) about
>> anyone totally rebuilding an Onan and what the results were.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Fathom the hypocrisy of a nation where every citizen must prove they have
> health insurance......but not everyone has to prove they're a citizen.
> Steve Ferguson
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180623 is a reply to message #180420] |
Fri, 17 August 2012 09:45 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
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On Aug 15, 2012, at 8:59 PM, Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
> Not trying to spam the thread but I've got the 6000W Onan that is in my coach that would make a great rebuild project. The meter showed 1600 hours but it was in a flood. It would need to be totally gone through. I'm not going to use it and don't know why it would not be rebuildable. Electronics might not have liked the water but usually once electronics dry out they'll be OK.
Hi Kerry,
If you do decide to rebuild yours I'd recommend that before you do anything else that you do some electrical tests on your generator section as described in the manual.
Some if not all of the GMC Onans were wound with aluminum wire (covered with varnish which of course makes it look like copper). The problem is that if there were any nicks in the varnish due to vibration, debris moving around, etc then the water from the flood could reach the bare aluminum and subsequently turn it into aluminum oxide powder.
My Onan produced no AC and after disassembly I found wire sections missing in three places as well as some peagravel inside the housing which is most likely what initiated the damage to the varnish on the windings - with environmental humidity doing the rest. In my search for a replacement field assembly I went to a nearby GMC supplier and tested his pile of removed/discarded 6kW units. He had four, and all four had bad fields exactly like mine.
I'd hate to see you put a lot of $$ in an engine rebuild just to find that your field windings were defective. This could be very likely since yours was submerged at one time.
To my knowledge no one has rewound an Onan field, however I am going to try it if I can ever find a defective specimen.
In my mind these Onans are WELL worth the effort required to keep them running - for the reasons others have pointed out...it is engineered for longevity and built like a tank plus it runs at 1800 rpm which makes it much quieter than comparable 3600rpm machines.
--Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rebuild Onan [message #180627 is a reply to message #180422] |
Fri, 17 August 2012 09:57 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
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On Aug 15, 2012, at 9:07 PM, Thomas Phipps wrote:
> The control board could be replaced with one of the small PIC ( computers) carrying the logic load.
Any modern microcontroller such as a PIC or Atmel can easily handle the computational load of controlling the engine as well as fuel injection and spark.
A major problem in using a microcontroller to control the Onan will be hardening the sensor inputs and control outputs to survive in the world of flyback voltage pulses from fuel and starter solenoids as well as electrical noise introduced from the spark system and other energy coupled in from the alternator's output.
My choice for an engine controller would be a small industrial PLC which will already has signal conditioning circuitry in place to protect its CPU. The industrial control world is an electrically hostile place and the companies that build PLCs have a lot of experience and knowledge in how to make them work in that environment.
--Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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