Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection
| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #179564] |
Wed, 08 August 2012 17:23  |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In addition to the EFI forum, go here:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/
and download:
Throttle Body Fuel Injection Upgrade by Ray Swarzendruber
and
Fuel Injection for the GMC by Richard J. Waters
I studied the heck out of those docs and then installed a GM 2" TBI
from a Chevy 454 and a computer controlled Olds distributor on our 455.
I modified the 454 wiring harness, but you can also use other GM harnesses as
described in Rays article, or buy an after market harness.
I then added EBL at the patiently repeated suggestion of folks who
know better, and am really glad I did. Saved a TON of time tuning
the thing and gives you a lot more insight into what's going on.
A lot of bang for the buck with EBL.
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #179565 is a reply to message #179564] |
Wed, 08 August 2012 18:08  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Karen,
Which coach did you put the TBI on, and can you comment on the difference in drivability?
Any guess as to your total $$ outlay
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
A Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
----- Original Message -----
From: "KB" <kab7@sonic.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 3:23:51 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection
In addition to the EFI forum, go here:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/
and download:
Throttle Body Fuel Injection Upgrade by Ray Swarzendruber
and
Fuel Injection for the GMC by Richard J. Waters
I studied the heck out of those docs and then installed a GM 2" TBI
from a Chevy 454 and a computer controlled Olds distributor on our 455.
I modified the 454 wiring harness, but you can also use other GM harnesses as
described in Rays article, or buy an after market harness.
I then added EBL at the patiently repeated suggestion of folks who
know better, and am really glad I did. Saved a TON of time tuning
the thing and gives you a lot more insight into what's going on.
A lot of bang for the buck with EBL.
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #179603 is a reply to message #179564] |
Wed, 08 August 2012 21:20 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Almost forgot the other really useful documentation out there by John Wilson of
CustomEFIs (now defunct), especially for building the harness. These are on on
bdub's site toward the bottom:
http://www.bdub.net/manuals/index.html
I think just download the bigger file as the other seems to be a subset of the info.
KB wrote:
> In addition to the EFI forum, go here:
> http://www.gmceast.com/technical/
> and download:
> Throttle Body Fuel Injection Upgrade by Ray Swarzendruber
> and
> Fuel Injection for the GMC by Richard J. Waters
>
> I studied the heck out of those docs and then installed a GM 2" TBI
> from a Chevy 454 and a computer controlled Olds distributor on our 455.
> I modified the 454 wiring harness, but you can also use other GM
> harnesses as
> described in Rays article, or buy an after market harness.
>
> I then added EBL at the patiently repeated suggestion of folks who
> know better, and am really glad I did. Saved a TON of time tuning
> the thing and gives you a lot more insight into what's going on.
> A lot of bang for the buck with EBL.
>
> Karen
> 1973 23'
> 1975 26'
>
>
>
>
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #179628 is a reply to message #179565] |
Thu, 09 August 2012 02:20 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| ljdavick wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 16:08 |
Karen,
Which coach did you put the TBI on, and can you comment on the difference in drivability?
Any guess as to your total $$ outlay
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
A Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
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I have not figured the $$, because I did this a bit at a time. There was some extra cost doing it this way.
The reason for the bit by bit installation is I simply did not know all that could be done and in fact, when I started EBL was not on my radar.
That being said, TBI is only part of what makes this work so well. Spark control is huge, in my opinion. Howell, when I purchased my kit, was not really supporting spark control and was proudly advertising that Howell worked with the existing HEI distributor in GMC motorhomes. I am sure this is somewhat controversial, but the HEI is like the Q-Jet; both amazing pieces of equipment. The problem is in having them adjusted for every situation; elevation, temperature, etc. When the computer controls spark, no more twisting the distributor. The knock sensor tells the computer to retard the spark because of pinging.
With EBL and Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS), you can control fuel delivery and spark advance. The VSS shuts off the injectors when coasting and allows for Lean Cruise; leaning out the fuel when cruising on flat land. EBL melds fuel and spark together seamlessly, advancing spark as it leans the mixture. (Lean burns slower, therefore needing an advanced spark.)
I believe JimK has a Howell kit with a modified wiring harness to allow for computer controlled distributor and EBL. If I had it to do over, I would get the whole ball of wax. As it was, I have an extra EBL-less computer and I have added to my wiring harness several times as advances became available.
There are other kits and perhaps some others can share their experience. There is also an EFI forum, much like this forum where there is much help for the newbie. With EBL we can look at a log and help make adjustments from across the nation.
Will you get 15 mpg? Well, I am not. I am threatening to break Gene's 8-10 depending on if you tow rule, but we still have to push a wall of air with 12K lbs of coach. But, it starts at high altitude just like at sea level. It runs beautifully. It never diesels. It runs like my Honda.
So, in my opinion, Howell alone is like running your air conditioning with the windows open.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #179629 is a reply to message #179565] |
Thu, 09 August 2012 02:37 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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| ljdavick wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 16:08 |
Karen,
Which coach did you put the TBI on, and can you comment on the difference in drivability?
|
Larry, I forgot to say, California Smog was not even slightly interested in the fact that fuel injection makes less smog. EFI was not made for an Olds 455, therefore, they made me take it off my '78. I took it to a smog referee for modified vehicles and they would not test it. I asked a referee, "You mean I have to put the carburetor back on and make more smog to pass smog?" The referee said, "I am sorry, but yes."
I think if you put an engine in the coach that had fuel injection in the vehicle it came in, you could get a referee to put a new inspection sticker on the coach. In other words, Dave Lenzi's Vortec conversion has at least a chance of qualifying. Maybe even a 454. I am guessing here.
So, '75 and earlier for California.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #179667 is a reply to message #179629] |
Thu, 09 August 2012 11:11 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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P.o. Box in Oregon I think. I'm glad that in Washington I don't have to pass emissions. I have the complete Howell throttle body system with EBL and patterson distributer from Jim k in the WarPig. I cannot speak to mileage since I never really drove it enough before the conversion but the benefits Karen mentioned I have experienced as well. Smooth running at altitude pulling loads up grades, no dieseling,turn key to instant start and idle, no vapor lock( pump mounted as per instructions very close to tanks). I don't have a laptop or the know how to mess with the programming (maybe at a future rally) but it functions fine with the " gmc motor home" program loaded in it from Jim k. I'm happy with it. No more fuel smell and one less variable to manage when a run ability problem arises. Could I have saved money by piecing it together? Maybe but with all that needed(s) to be done I chose to by a complete system. With the installation instructions included in the kit and a few phon
e calls to Jim k ( thanks Jim!) I had the system in and running and it is off the list as far as things I need to address or worry about. So with the engine/drivetrain / brakes ( lines and shocks Jim bounds)/ and suspension done ( sullybilt rear air spring kit and new pins + bushings )I can focus on completion of the interior.
Sully
77 royale
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 9, 2012, at 12:37 AM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>
>
> ljdavick wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 16:08
>> Karen,
>>
>> Which coach did you put the TBI on, and can you comment on the difference in drivability?
>
>
> Larry, I forgot to say, California Smog was not even slightly interested in the fact that fuel injection makes less smog. EFI was not made for an Olds 455, therefore, they made me take it off my '78. I took it to a smog referee for modified vehicles and they would not test it. I asked a referee, "You mean I have to put the carburetor back on and make more smog to pass smog?" The referee said, "I am sorry, but yes."
>
> I think if you put an engine in the coach that had fuel injection in the vehicle it came in, you could get a referee to put a new inspection sticker on the coach. In other words, Dave Lenzi's Vortec conversion has at least a chance of qualifying. Maybe even a 454. I am guessing here.
>
> So, '75 and earlier for California.
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #179673 is a reply to message #179629] |
Thu, 09 August 2012 11:52 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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| ljdavick wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 16:08 |
Larry, I forgot to say, California Smog was not even slightly interested in the fact that fuel injection makes less smog. EFI was not made for an Olds 455, therefore, they made me take it off my '78. I took it to a smog referee for modified vehicles and they would not test it. I asked a referee, "You mean I have to put the carburetor back on and make more smog to pass smog?" The referee said, "I am sorry, but yes."
|
That's exactly what happened to the PO of my coach (who lives in LA). Had to take the Howell EFI system off and put on a carburetor. Ouch... now I'm trying to reverse that swap.
George, I don't suppose you still have your EFI system laying around gathering dust, do you? Or maybe there's another GMCer here who is going to have to replace an EFI system with a carb due to California's twisted rules... I've certainly got a carb that's tuned to perfection that I'd be willing to trade toward an EFI system.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #179713 is a reply to message #179673] |
Thu, 09 August 2012 17:14 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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[quote title=habbyguy wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 09:52]| ljdavick wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 16:08 |
Larry, I forgot to say, California Smog was not even slightly interested in the fact that fuel injection makes less smog.
George, I don't suppose you still have your EFI system laying around gathering dust, do you? Or maybe there's another GMCer here who is going to have to replace an EFI system with a carb due to California's twisted rules... I've certainly got a carb that's tuned to perfection that I'd be willing to trade toward an EFI system.
|
No. I came home from the smog referee and told Ruth, we are buying another coach. About 6 weeks later I had our current 74. In the meantime I put the carb back on the 78 and passed with flying colors. I sold it to Bill in Idaho and put all the EFI on the new-old coach.
I am not a big fan of smog, but why they could not test the coach and see if it passes, I will never know. The dyno was right there. If it ran clean, let me be. Flumdummery is what it is, flumdummery.Rules written by a bunch of guys who didn't keep their eye on the ball.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #179884 is a reply to message #179575] |
Sat, 11 August 2012 18:51 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| emerystora wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 18:41 |
By the way "A" where are you located?
Is there some reason that you won't identify yourself a bit more?
I hate to send responses to a letter of the alphabet. I am seriously thinking of sending all messages with just a letter to the trash bin automatically.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, NM
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I am located about 40 miles South of Art Mansfield.
I learned from my employer the dangers of posting too much info about yourself on the 'net. Knowing what I know, I will never understand why anyone would patronize facebook and other such sites. I am ultra paranoid on the 'net, compared to most people, but not to those that know what I know.
My father's first name was "A". His middle name was "O". Different people had different nicknames for him, probably because a single letter for a name didn't make sense to them either. Some folks on here call me "Aham".
I went back and forth on my profile between "A" and my real name and ended up with "A".
You can call me Mark, if you like, but that gets confusing because there are several Marks frequenting this forum.
If my posts go straight to your trash folder, I guess that will be OK for you, since I don't know if I can ever assist you, but it will be detrimental to me, since you have answered questions for me in the past and cleared up some of my misconceptions.
I hope we can meet in person some day and I won't be such a stranger.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #179899 is a reply to message #179884] |
Sat, 11 August 2012 20:59 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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We have all the parts you need plus we can supply only what you'll need.
We will also assist you in programing if you want the EBL.
Our guys are up to date on that system and can help.
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 4:51 PM, A. <markbb1@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
> emerystora wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 18:41
> > By the way "A" where are you located?
> > Is there some reason that you won't identify yourself a bit more?
> >
> > I hate to send responses to a letter of the alphabet. I am seriously
> thinking of sending all messages with just a letter to the trash bin
> automatically.
> >
> > Emery Stora
> > 77 Kingsley
> > Frederick, NM
> I am located about 40 miles South of Art Mansfield.
> I learned from my employer the dangers of posting too much info about
> yourself on the 'net. Knowing what I know, I will never understand why
> anyone would patronize facebook and other such sites. I am ultra paranoid
> on the 'net, compared to most people, but not to those that know what I
> know.
> My father's first name was "A". His middle name was "O". Different
> people had different nicknames for him, probably because a single letter
> for a name didn't make sense to them either. Some folks on here call me
> "Aham".
> I went back and forth on my profile between "A" and my real name and ended
> up with "A".
> You can call me Mark, if you like, but that gets confusing because there
> are several Marks frequenting this forum.
> If my posts go straight to your trash folder, I guess that will be OK for
> you, since I don't know if I can ever assist you, but it will be
> detrimental to me, since you have answered questions for me in the past and
> cleared up some of my misconceptions.
> I hope we can meet in person some day and I won't be such a stranger.
> --
> '73 23' CanyonLands
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #180019 is a reply to message #179904] |
Sun, 12 August 2012 22:13 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Howard,
You must not have the EBL option on your Howell system.
Once you get it working with the EBL, you will se gain in power and milage,
unless you drive harder as you now can.
I can show you how and have our staff help program it for gains.
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Howard and Sue <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
> Boost my MPG?
> About this much "0"
> But its starts each and ever time cold or hot sitting for a short time or
> for months.
> I can also drive from sea level to 10,000 feet and the air fuel mixture is
> the same with our Howell F I.
> The big plus no fuel smell when you shut down the engine and the fuel is
> boiling in the carburetor.
> All is well with my Lord
> Signing checks on the front
> Howard
> Alpine CA
> 26' Canyon Lands
> Not quite Stock
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gene Fisher" <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 15:02
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection
>
>
> How much did it boost your MPG?
> TEE HEE HEE
>
> gene
>
> --
> > '73 23' CanyonLands
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection [message #180020 is a reply to message #180019] |
Sun, 12 August 2012 22:33 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim;
I would like to talk to you about the EBL.
Cost and length of time to install?
We have the Patterson distributor.
Susie and I are talking about coming up in Oct. to Treasure Island for Fleet
week.
I do push out GMC hard at times.
All is well with my Lord
Thanks
Howard
Alpine Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Kanomata" <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 20:13
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection
> Howard,
> You must not have the EBL option on your Howell system.
> Once you get it working with the EBL, you will se gain in power and
> milage,
> unless you drive harder as you now can.
> I can show you how and have our staff help program it for gains.
>
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Howard and Sue <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Boost my MPG?
>> About this much "0"
>> But its starts each and ever time cold or hot sitting for a short time or
>> for months.
>> I can also drive from sea level to 10,000 feet and the air fuel mixture
>> is
>> the same with our Howell F I.
>> The big plus no fuel smell when you shut down the engine and the fuel is
>> boiling in the carburetor.
>> All is well with my Lord
>> Signing checks on the front
>> Howard
>> Alpine CA
>> 26' Canyon Lands
>> Not quite Stock
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "gene Fisher" <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
>> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 15:02
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Howell fuel injection
>>
>>
>> How much did it boost your MPG?
>> TEE HEE HEE
>>
>> gene
>>
>> --
>> > '73 23' CanyonLands
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > GMCnet mailing list
>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
>> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
>> -------
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
>> Alternator Protection Cable
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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All is well with my Lord
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