Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » safe hot water tank temperature??.
| safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172737] |
Sat, 09 June 2012 19:43  |
glacierfl
Messages: 444
Registered: June 2011
Karma: 0
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Hello,
I recently bought a hot water heater thermostat. This will set the temperature of the water when electric is on. The engine also supplies heat via the hoses when you are driving. What sort of temperatures could you expect, heating via the hoses alone. Could this make the water temperature unsafe????.
cheers and beers
Steve & Debbie
Monticello, FL
77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
EX G4WDT
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| Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172743 is a reply to message #172737] |
Sat, 09 June 2012 20:26  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Steve,
The water in the heater can potentially reach approximately the same
temperature as the engine's coolant -- 195*F+. Yep. HOT!
There are automatic mixture control valves available and should be
installed if you or any potential user does not have the presence of mind
to compensate for that HAZARD.
Ken H.
On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 8:43 PM, steve & debbie wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
> I recently bought a hot water heater thermostat. This will set the
> temperature of the water when electric is on. The engine also supplies heat
> via the hoses when you are driving. What sort of temperatures could you
> expect, heating via the hoses alone. Could this make the water temperature
> unsafe????.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172760 is a reply to message #172756] |
Sat, 09 June 2012 22:04 |
glacierfl
Messages: 444
Registered: June 2011
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Hello,
Thanks for your comments guys. Getting scalded is no fun..
I wonder how feasable it would be, to stop the coolant getting to the hot water tank if it went above a predetermined temperature. I guess you would somehow have to loop the coolant back, while this condition existed.
cheers and beers
Steve & Debbie
Monticello, FL
77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
EX G4WDT
[Updated on: Sat, 09 June 2012 22:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172775 is a reply to message #172737] |
Sun, 10 June 2012 07:00 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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I disconnected my engine heat option, Based on what Randy said, it just heats uo the bathroom too.
I can't think of when I needed hot water right away when I got someplace anyway.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172779 is a reply to message #172778] |
Sun, 10 June 2012 09:12 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Armand,
I suspect for some reason some of my emails don't get sent out by the email
system so I've Cc'd your email address directly.
Following copied from the Forum and pasted.
Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??.
Sat, 09 June 2012 21:32
Robert Mueller
Messages: 8259
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia Senior Member
G'day,
Ken is 100% correct (naturally) regarding the temp the engine water will
bring the water in the house water heater up to.
I was surprised when I removed the 120VAC heating element in the Atwood
heater that was in The Blue Streak here in Australia to replace it with a
240VAC element. It is just a single copper tube (not a coil) that runs in
arc from its inlet fitting to its outlet fitting.
When I replaced the water heater in Double Trouble I found that the water
can get so hot that it can trip the overheat switch and cause the
temperature relief valve to spew hot water all over the ground when you stop
and connect city water or turn on the pump. It does stop once the fresh cold
water drops the temp below the temperature relief valve setting. I drilled a
hole above the overheat trip switch so I could reset it without having to
remove the cover.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showfull.php?photo=31262
Here's a link to the control valve Ken noted below, I got mine from Cinnabar
but you could check and see if JimK has them.
www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/random-photos/p44495-atwood-heat-exchanger.html
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Armand Minnie
What does it matter if it is close to the engine coolant temp as long as it
doesn't come out of the tap at that temp?
--
Armand
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172781 is a reply to message #172775] |
Sun, 10 June 2012 09:28 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Summertime I need the water often when I've set up, and the A/C is a necessity. On the 23' as norris fitted it, I have to choose one or the other. So the preheat is nice. I fill the tub to the level needed, and mix the scalding with the cold. And then set the dog in. Usualy washing paws.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Chris Choffat <cchoffataz@yahoo.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??.
I disconnected my engine heat option, Based on what Randy said, it just heats uo the bathroom too.
I can't think of when I needed hot water right away when I got someplace anyway.
--
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
"The Escape Pod" A 77 Ex-Kingsley Featuring: Olds 455, Manny Power Drive, 3:21, Rockwell, Jim B QJET, Quadra bag. Still needs paint!
Photosite: Chrisc "It has Begun"
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172785 is a reply to message #172779] |
Sun, 10 June 2012 10:13 |
armandminnie
Messages: 864
Registered: May 2009
Location: Marana, AZ
Karma: 2
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Rob, I use the forum so no problem getting your messages. My coach has the standard electric water heater (new SS one from Jimk) with the engine preheat. There is no overheat shutoff. My old water heater used to get so hot when plugged in (because some PO installed the thermostat so it was not in contact with the tank) that the pressure relief valve would constantly drip.
I never measured the temperature of the preheated water vs. the electrically heated water but they were both pretty hot. I assume that the preheat water temp in the new tank is the same as the old tank and that it pretty close to engine operating temp (190 - 200 degrees) when I stop. With my plumbing mod, the water coming out of the tap with either heat source is the same so I assume that the electrically heated water is also in that temp range.
So, what does it matter if it is close to the engine coolant temp as long as it doesn't come out of the tap at that temp?
Armand Minnie
Marana, AZ
'76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
visit my gmc blog
click here to visit gmcws.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172792 is a reply to message #172786] |
Sun, 10 June 2012 11:54 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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I agree with Armand on this. My water heater apparently does not have a temp limit switch (or it doesn't work) and it has never tripped the T&P valve. The whole point of the high temps of the water heater is to give an adequate supply of hot water in spite of the low volume. There is a pretty short learning curve on how to mix the hot water with cold to avoid scalding yourself. Do it once or twice, and you will learn to turn on the cold first and then mix in hot to the desired temperature.
Personally, I like the preheat feature and have used it while dry camping on several occasions. On the way to the GMCMI convention at Pueblo a few years ago, I bedded down in a Walmart parking lot in Las Vegas, NM. In spite of an overnight low in the 30s, I was able to still take a hot shower in the morning before driving the last leg into Pueblo.
Armand's solution is a good one and I will employ it in my bathroom, just for the sake of convenience.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172865 is a reply to message #172792] |
Sun, 10 June 2012 21:41 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
Armand: since your water heater does not have an overtemp switch that trips
and you don't have water spewing out of the relief valve when you first
connect to city water or turn on the pump you don't have a problem and it
doesn't matter.
Carl: the first question is which water heater do you have; is the square
box one or the round one? If it is the square box one and the overtemp
switch doesn't trip or the T&P valve doesn't either I'd say that for some
reason the engine cooling water does not heat the water in your water heater
as hot as it does in Double Trouble.
I may be wrong but it appears to me that there is a perception that I am
criticizing or disagreeing with Armand and Carl. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER
FROM THE TRUTH.
I think Armand's solution to keep from getting scalded by too hot water is
TOTALLY EXCELLENT.
We are talking about two DIFFERENT problems, however.
I have a problem with the overtemp switch tripping and the T&P valve
tripping. Armand's TOTALLY EXCELLENT solution for not getting scalded does
not address my problem. It does not regulate the temperature of the water
the engine cooling system delivers to the water heater. The Atwood kit does
that.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Stouffer
I agree with Armand on this. My water heater apparently does not have a
temp limit switch (or it doesn't work) and it has never tripped the T&P
valve. The whole point of the high temps of the water heater is to give an
adequate supply of hot water in spite of the low volume. There is a pretty
short learning curve on how to mix the hot water with cold to avoid scalding
yourself. Do it once or twice, and you will learn to turn on the cold first
and then mix in hot to the desired temperature.
Personally, I like the preheat feature and have used it while dry camping on
several occasions. On the way to the GMCMI convention at Pueblo a few years
ago, I bedded down in a Walmart parking lot in Las Vegas, NM. In spite of
an overnight low in the 30s, I was able to still take a hot shower in the
morning before driving the last leg into Pueblo.
Armand's solution is a good one and I will employ it in my bathroom, just
for the sake of convenience.
--
Carl S.
-----Original Message-----
From: Armand Minnie
My water heater is the first one - the plain tank, not the one with the
square cabinet. I wasn't try to compare them, just to ask why it mattered
that the water got to engine coolant temp which, at least on mine, seems to
match the thermostat setting.
--
Armand
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172868 is a reply to message #172837] |
Sun, 10 June 2012 21:53 |
glacierfl
Messages: 444
Registered: June 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hello,
I cannot find that kit that was mentioned. I do not want a system that mixes cold with hot to drop the temp. That is going to waste water... SO how can a system be made ?, that is adjustable temperature wise. If the water heater temp goes above a preset value 'running off the coolant', then the coolant flow would be turned off to the water heater.
Only redirected if the temperature dropped below that threshhold AND the coolant temperature was above the water heater temp we wanted. Otherwise we are cooling the water down, thats a waste.....
Using a 12v thermostat that reads the water tank temperature then it switches the coolant out of line somehow, while still sending coolant through the engine bits and bobs.
Am i making sense here???. There must be a fairly simple way to do this. I guess if i worked on it long enough i could find a solution. With so many folks on here, with expertise in so many things, perhaps we could come up with a solution, that would benefit many folks ??.
So lets start with a 12v adjustable thermostat that reads the water tank temperature. Also another thermostat that reads the coolant going into the heater. Remember you do not want to send coolant to the heater if its cooler than the temp we want...
This then switches what ???
cheers and beers
Steve & Debbie
Monticello, FL
77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
EX G4WDT
[Updated on: Sun, 10 June 2012 21:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172873 is a reply to message #172868] |
Sun, 10 June 2012 22:08 |
hal kading
Messages: 642
Registered: February 2004
Location: Las Cruces NM
Karma: 4
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Steve & Debbie,
Mixing some of the cold water with the hot does not waste any. What you have with Armand's system is water with the temp so you can use it. If anything it will save water as you do not run it down the drain until you get the faucets set for the right temperature.
Hal Kading 78 Buskirk Las Cruces NM (Where water is very precious)
Hal Kading 1978 Buskirk Stretch 502 Las Cruces NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] safe hot water tank temperature??. [message #172877 is a reply to message #172865] |
Sun, 10 June 2012 22:18 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Mine is the round one. AFIK, it is the original as delivered in my GM built coach. I am not disagreeing with you that the water gets HOT. I have just changed from a 195* t-stat to a 180* so I'm guessing it will not be quite as hot. I haven't had any problems as a result. I probably should replace the T&P valve, as it is probably frozen up.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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