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| opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172272] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 15:44  |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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i did my timing chain late last year, after the fact i can see what should have been a 4 to 6 hour job i made it take way too long. most from being unsure.
now it is time for me to consider rebuilding air pump and steering box. neither do i need to turn into a long drawn out thing, i also understand some tools will have to be bought which i dont mind if i can use them again for something.
my question for thoses who know is, based on a scale of 1 to 10 with one being letting air out of tire, and 10 being rebuild motor which would also include removing motor , i give the timing chain maybe a 4 and new tool of inpact wrench makes removing wheels much easier.
where does rebuilding steering box and rebuilding air pump fit ? i want to save money where i can, but only when i should.
all input is appreciated.
bgk
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172277 is a reply to message #172272] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 17:01  |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| chasingsummer wrote on Wed, 06 June 2012 13:44 |
i did my timing chain late last year, after the fact i can see what should have been a 4 to 6 hour job i made it take way too long. most from being unsure.
now it is time for me to consider rebuilding air pump and steering box. neither do i need to turn into a long drawn out thing, i also understand some tools will have to be bought which i dont mind if i can use them again for something.
my question for thoses who know is, based on a scale of 1 to 10 with one being letting air out of tire, and 10 being rebuild motor which would also include removing motor , i give the timing chain maybe a 4 and new tool of inpact wrench makes removing wheels much easier.
where does rebuilding steering box and rebuilding air pump fit ? i want to save money where i can, but only when i should.
all input is appreciated.
bgk
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I've never rebuilt an air pump. It is probably a fairly easy job, but I opted for buying a new Viair for the sake of reliability.
Opinions may vary, but I would recommend leaving the steering box up to a professional with the proper testing equipment. It is NOT something you would want to have a problem with. If all you need to do is replace a seal, I have done that and wouldn't hesitate to do it again, but a total rebuild is a different story.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172278 is a reply to message #172277] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 17:09 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Karma: 0
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On 6/6/2012 3:01 PM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
>
> chasingsummer wrote on Wed, 06 June 2012 13:44
>> i did my timing chain late last year, after the fact i can see what should have been a 4 to 6 hour job i made it take way too long. most from being unsure.
>> now it is time for me to consider rebuilding air pump and steering box. neither do i need to turn into a long drawn out thing, i also understand some tools will have to be bought which i dont mind if i can use them again for something.
>> my question for thoses who know is, based on a scale of 1 to 10 with one being letting air out of tire, and 10 being rebuild motor which would also include removing motor , i give the timing chain maybe a 4 and new tool of inpact wrench makes removing wheels much easier.
>> where does rebuilding steering box and rebuilding air pump fit ? i want to save money where i can, but only when i should.
>> all input is appreciated.
>> bgk
>
> I've never rebuilt an air pump. It is probably a fairly easy job, but I opted for buying a new Viair for the sake of reliability.
I have rebuilt an OEM Dana air pump. Good instructions, good parts.
I'm pretty good at this kind of stuff and took care to do it as well as
I could. I never felt the pump was up to OEM specs afterwards.
Might be a good choice just to replace it with a newer, more powerful
pump. More money... but you'll probably end up spending it in the
future anyway.
Kelvin
'73 23' in Eugene, OR
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| Re: opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172279 is a reply to message #172272] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 17:13 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| chasingsummer wrote on Wed, 06 June 2012 14:44 |
i did my timing chain late last year, after the fact i can see what should have been a 4 to 6 hour job i made it take way too long. most from being unsure.
now it is time for me to consider rebuilding air pump and steering box. neither do i need to turn into a long drawn out thing, i also understand some tools will have to be bought which i dont mind if i can use them again for something.
my question for thoses who know is, based on a scale of 1 to 10 with one being letting air out of tire, and 10 being rebuild motor which would also include removing motor , i give the timing chain maybe a 4 and new tool of inpact wrench makes removing wheels much easier.
where does rebuilding steering box and rebuilding air pump fit ? i want to save money where i can, but only when i should.
all input is appreciated.
bgk
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On a scale of 1-10, I would rate the steering gear a 11 or 12.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172280 is a reply to message #172272] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 17:15 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Brian,
Not a serious gearhead and certainly not an expert in these matters but some mechanical experience and lots of experience buying and replacing GMC and other parts.
I am noramally a proponent of rebuilding vs replacing things when possible but for both of your items you may be happier in the long run if you replace with new or professionally rebuilt.
Steering box is easy to replace but I think perhaps difficult to rebuild and may require special tools for measuring wear of internal parts and for setting up torque values on reassembly.
The OEM Dana compressor is easy to rebuild but, I have had a 33%success rate with that.
The first one John Clement rebuilt for me. It was still working when I sold that coach several years later.
The second one John Clement rebuilt amd a week later one of the connection rods broke in half.
John rebuilt it again and it worked ok for a while then began taking longer and longer to get up to pressure.
I replaced it with a new modern compressor 7 years ago and that one is still working. In that 7 years I have driven the coach 75000 miles.
The newer compressors are much more efficient than the Dana.
I'm sure you'll get diffeent opinions.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172288 is a reply to message #172272] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 17:42 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Brian,
You know your capabilities far better than anyone else so with all due
respect I would suggest that you:
1) Download a copy of the Maintenance Manual and Parts Book here:
http://www.bdub.net/factory-manuals.html
2) Read the sections that cover the air pump and steering box.
3) If you don't understand anything that is said ask us referencing the
relevant document.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: brian
i did my timing chain late last year, after the fact i can see what should
have been a 4 to 6 hour job i made it take way too long. most from being
unsure.
now it is time for me to consider rebuilding air pump and steering box.
neither do i need to turn into a long drawn out thing, i also understand
some tools will have to be bought which i dont mind if i can use them again
for something.
my question for thoses who know is, based on a scale of 1 to 10 with one
being letting air out of tire, and 10 being rebuild motor which would also
include removing motor , i give the timing chain maybe a 4 and new tool of
inpact wrench makes removing wheels much easier.
where does rebuilding steering box and rebuilding air pump fit ? i want to
save money where i can, but only when i should.
all input is appreciated.
brian
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172303 is a reply to message #172272] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 19:35 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| chasingsummer wrote on Wed, 06 June 2012 16:44 |
i did my timing chain late last year, after the fact i can see what should have been a 4 to 6 hour job i made it take way too long. most from being unsure.
now it is time for me to consider rebuilding air pump and steering box. neither do i need to turn into a long drawn out thing, i also understand some tools will have to be bought which i dont mind if i can use them again for something.
my question for thoses who know is, based on a scale of 1 to 10 with one being letting air out of tire, and 10 being rebuild motor which would also include removing motor , i give the timing chain maybe a 4 and new tool of inpact wrench makes removing wheels much easier.
where does rebuilding steering box and rebuilding air pump fit ? i want to save money where i can, but only when i should.
all input is appreciated.
bgk
|
Brian,
I have done both...
The steering box was not for the coach (in fact pre-coach). I have all the tools and if I could buy a rebuilt, I would never attempt this again. You will have little use for the inch-once torque wrench that will be needed. I second Bob and the 12 score.
If you are literate and have an IQ over 80, the Dana air pump is a solid 2. (OK Maybe 2.6, but no higher). Mine works as well as ever, but I am still considering something more effective and quieter.
I like to repair things even if it is now currently cost effective because I always learn something. Sometimes, I learn not to do it again.....
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172304 is a reply to message #172279] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 19:44 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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If you are going to keep the 2 cylinder air pump it is an easy rebuild with the kit. The hardest part is probably removing it.
When I first bought my coach the steering box was leaking badly. I bought the rebuild kit and was reading the instructions as I went along.I got to the part that said do not remove the steel balls as a special tool is needed to replace them. That is when they fell out on the floor. It was a bitch but I got them back in place.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172305 is a reply to message #172272] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 19:54 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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THe whole "rebuilt" thing is a bit of a hoax. Some rebuiders take cores and if a certain part of the core is fine they just beaytify and send off as rebuilt. A lot of devices are not rebuidable by design. If the box has a scored rack or bad balls or some other major problems it may not be worth t. However if it is not "broke" and just needs adjustment then by all means yes. Break the linkage at the Pitman to drag and use a flair nut wrench on the lines and unbolt it. Then you can do the Wirth adjustments from his lecture, drain the fluid, follow the steps and be good to go. If it's beyond that I'd call it a good core and call Jim K for a swap out.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172312 is a reply to message #172305] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 20:34 |
Dave Mumert
Messages: 272
Registered: February 2004
Location: Olds, AB, Canada
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi All
I had my steering box rebuilt by a local shop (Hydra-Steer). They replaced
all the seals and adjusted it to factory specs. There is no play now. It
cost me $80 a few years ago, I dropped it off at 8 AM, they called a 4 PM
and said it was ready but the paint was still not completely dry. He
indicated there was nothing wrong with the steering box and it just needed
adjusting.
You might want to check your area for qualified people to see if there is
someone to adjust it before you buy a 'rebuilt' one.
Dave Mumert
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] opinions sought from you gear heads
>
> THe whole "rebuilt" thing is a bit of a hoax. Some rebuiders take cores
and if
> a certain part of the core is fine they just beaytify and send off as
rebuilt. A
> lot of devices are not rebuidable by design. If the box has a scored rack
or
> bad balls or some other major problems it may not be worth t. However if
it
> is not "broke" and just needs adjustment then by all means yes. Break the
> linkage at the Pitman to drag and use a flair nut wrench on the lines and
> unbolt it. Then you can do the Wirth adjustments from his lecture, drain
the
> fluid, follow the steps and be good to go. If it's beyond that I'd call
it a good
> core and call Jim K for a swap out.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Chicago, IL
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| Re: [GMCnet] opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172313 is a reply to message #172305] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 20:34 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Me too, John!
I'd buy a low range in-lb bending-beam torque wrench similar to
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=inch+pound+torque+wrench&hl=en&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&ion=1&b iw=1024&bih=653&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5683339015118285722&sa=X&ei=JATQT5inEpOyhAfThKGSDA&ved=0CLEBEPMCMAY
or
http://goo.gl/6wHMp
If the job requires any tool more complex than that, it's time for an
expert. But I'd only buy a box that I KNEW had the proper range stops, as
from JimK.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:54 PM, John R. Lebetski wrote:
>
>
> THe whole "rebuilt" thing is a bit of a hoax. Some rebuiders take cores
> and if a certain part of the core is fine they just beaytify and send off
> as rebuilt. A lot of devices are not rebuidable by design. If the box has
> a scored rack or bad balls or some other major problems it may not be worth
> t. However if it is not "broke" and just needs adjustment then by all
> means yes. Break the linkage at the Pitman to drag and use a flair nut
> wrench on the lines and unbolt it. Then you can do the Wirth adjustments
> from his lecture, drain the fluid, follow the steps and be good to go. If
> it's beyond that I'd call it a good core and call Jim K for a swap out.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172322 is a reply to message #172317] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 21:31 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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A few months before Don Wirth died, our Bill Brown worked with him to
prepare this invaluable document:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Wirth_GMCMH_Steering_Box.pdf
There are a couple of other great steering column/box papers at GMCEast
also.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Kelvin Dietz wrote:
> What, pray tell, are these "Wirth adjustments".
>
> I might have seen them at some time over the past years but I have to
> admit I need to delete piles of email on occasion. I don't plan on
> taking on this project any time soon as my coach goes nice and straight,
> but it's never been off the frame in almost 30 years, so at the very
> least it would be good to clean and replace seals at some point.
>
> Does Mr Wirth share his info online?
>
> Kelvin
>
> >
> > THe whole "rebuilt" thing is a bit of a hoax. Some rebuiders take cores
> and if a certain part of the core is fine they just beaytify and send off
> as rebuilt. A lot of devices are not rebuidable by design. If the box has
> a scored rack or bad balls or some other major problems it may not be worth
> t. However if it is not "broke" and just needs adjustment then by all
> means yes. Break the linkage at the Pitman to drag and use a flair nut
> wrench on the lines and unbolt it. Then you can do the Wirth adjustments
> from his lecture, drain the fluid, follow the steps and be good to go. If
> it's beyond that I'd call it a good core and call Jim K for a swap out.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] opinions sought from you gear heads [message #172335 is a reply to message #172317] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 22:26 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Kelvin Dietz wrote on Wed, 06 June 2012 20:06 |
What, pray tell, are these "Wirth adjustments".
I might have seen them at some time over the past years but I have to
admit I need to delete piles of email on occasion. I don't plan on
taking on this project any time soon as my coach goes nice and straight,
but it's never been off the frame in almost 30 years, so at the very
least it would be good to clean and replace seals at some point.
Does Mr Wirth share his info online?
Kelvin
>
> THe whole "rebuilt" thing is a bit of a hoax. Some rebuiders take cores and if a certain part of the core is fine they just beaytify and send off as rebuilt. A lot of devices are not rebuidable by design. If the box has a scored rack or bad balls or some other major problems it may not be worth t. However if it is not "broke" and just needs adjustment then by all means yes. Break the linkage at the Pitman to drag and use a flair nut wrench on the lines and unbolt it. Then you can do the Wirth adjustments from his lecture, drain the fluid, follow the steps and be good to go. If it's beyond that I'd call it a good core and call Jim K for a swap out.
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Kelvin, if you can wait a month my friend in Michigan is going to supply steering gears set up per our GM specs.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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