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| Type of oil [message #171801] |
Sat, 02 June 2012 19:35  |
rileysgmc
Messages: 27
Registered: May 2012
Location: west texas
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Yall may hate me before this is all said and done with my millions of questions!
So today, the generator started bogging down and eventually died...... Then about an hour later on our 30 mile trip back from the brake shop the engine died twice! The engine my husband has narrowed done to it being 3 quarts low on oil ......so question one what type of oil do we use? And let's hope that's the problem there.
Question number two .... What would cause the generator to bog down and eventually die? And what type of oil does it use?
I know I can go to Oman website for generator issues but I figured since I'm already here I'd ask!!!
The generator was working perfectly until today..... A nice and toasty 101 temp
How long do generators normally last, I assume this is the original one? It's a 6000 onan.
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| Re: Type of oil [message #171803 is a reply to message #171801] |
Sat, 02 June 2012 19:37  |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
Karma: 1
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If you are low on oil in the generator it will not run. Also the generator fuel pick up is about 2/3 way down in the tank so if you are low on gas it will not run.
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
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| Re: [GMCnet] Type of oil [message #171824 is a reply to message #171809] |
Sat, 02 June 2012 22:48 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I'll second Robs recommendation.
Shell Rotella 15w 40 from Walmart.
Mine is right at 100,700 miles and has used Rotella all of it's life. I use 1 quart of oil per 6,000 miles which means I never add oil. If it is a quart low (6000 miles) it is time to change it.
I recommend the same oil in the Onan. Air cooled engines, like the Onan, are built to looser tolerances to run on a wide range of temperatures so 15W 40 is a good choice for it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Type of oil [message #171863 is a reply to message #171801] |
Sun, 03 June 2012 10:05 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| rileysgmc wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 18:35 |
Yall may hate me before this is all said and done with my millions of questions!
So today, the generator started bogging down and eventually died...... Then about an hour later on our 30 mile trip back from the brake shop the engine died twice! The engine my husband has narrowed done to it being 3 quarts low on oil ......so question one what type of oil do we use? And let's hope that's the problem there.
Question number two .... What would cause the generator to bog down and eventually die? And what type of oil does it use?
I know I can go to Oman website for generator issues but I figured since I'm already here I'd ask!!!
The generator was working perfectly until today..... A nice and toasty 101 temp
How long do generators normally last, I assume this is the original one? It's a 6000 onan.
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These generators almost refuse to die even though some of us are waiting for an excuse to replace them  In hot weather, I have found a straight 40 weight to work best and have the lowest consumption. It's a bit hard to find these days but you can find it.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Type of oil [message #171913 is a reply to message #171801] |
Sun, 03 June 2012 18:36 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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To rileysgmc, someone created a "list" of the immediate things to do/check before a newly purchased used GMC is put into use.
I don't know where to find this list. I know Rick Denney created something like this. I would be real nervous if ANY drive engine stopped because it was low on oil. Semeone needs to do a half day check of the critical things on your GMCMH before you drive it anywhere !!!
It doesn't take many miles to ruin an engine, transmission, final drive that are seriously low on fluid.
and no brake fluid can cause a crash at the end of your driveway!!
DAVE KING
coming up on 50 years working on cars!!!
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
[Updated on: Mon, 04 June 2012 20:56] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Type of oil [message #171914 is a reply to message #171801] |
Sun, 03 June 2012 19:37 |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
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I've been having similar issues with my Onan, but haven't found the cause just yet. It runs great for a while, eventually starts to sputter, and then dies. I spoke with an Onan parts specialist at my local Onan dealer who knows these old Onans well, and he recommended 15W-40. According to him, other weight oils can get too thin in hot weather, which causes the oil pressure to drop and the low oil pressure switch to shut the engine down.
Good luck in hunting down the problem, and if you find it, let me know.
Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
[Updated on: Sun, 03 June 2012 19:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Type of oil [message #171923 is a reply to message #171914] |
Sun, 03 June 2012 21:43 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| bhayes wrote on Sun, 03 June 2012 17:37 |
I've been having similar issues with my Onan, but haven't found the cause just yet. It runs great for a while, eventually starts to sputter, and then dies. I spoke with an Onan parts specialist at my local Onan dealer who knows these old Onans well, and he recommended 15W-40. According to him, other weight oils can get too thin in hot weather, which causes the oil pressure to drop and the low oil pressure switch to shut the engine down.
Good luck in hunting down the problem, and if you find it, let me know.
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Interesting that you should mention this. Up until recently, I have been running 20W50 in my Onan for convenience sake, since that is what I run in my 455. I changed to straight 30 wt when I did some gasket work a month or so ago. On the short trip we took two weeks ago, we were running the roof AC as we were driving, and everything was fine for about an hour and a half, or less, then the Onan shut it self off. This happened on both legs of the trip. OAT was in the 90s. The Onan would not start back up until it had cooled off. My first thought was the oil getting too thin, as I had replaced the LOP switch back in December, so I know it is good.
I had never had this happen before. The other possibility is the fuel pump overheating and shutting off. Some friends were discussing this same problem on one of their SOBs and when the guy replaced the fuel pump, he never had the problem again. I'm looking for ideas here. I hate to change out the fuel pump and still have the thing shut down. My wife would be asking embarrassing questions about my diagnostic ability. What do you guys think?
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Type of oil [message #171924 is a reply to message #171923] |
Sun, 03 June 2012 21:48 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Carl,
You could change back to the multi vis...
You could by pass the LOP when next the problme occurs to see if the problem persists.
Dennis
| Carl S. wrote on Sun, 03 June 2012 21:43 |
| bhayes wrote on Sun, 03 June 2012 17:37 |
I've been having similar issues with my Onan, but haven't found the cause just yet. It runs great for a while, eventually starts to sputter, and then dies. I spoke with an Onan parts specialist at my local Onan dealer who knows these old Onans well, and he recommended 15W-40. According to him, other weight oils can get too thin in hot weather, which causes the oil pressure to drop and the low oil pressure switch to shut the engine down.
Good luck in hunting down the problem, and if you find it, let me know.
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Interesting that you should mention this. Up until recently, I have been running 20W50 in my Onan for convenience sake, since that is what I run in my 455. I changed to straight 30 wt when I did some gasket work a month or so ago. On the short trip we took two weeks ago, we were running the roof AC as we were driving, and everything was fine for about an hour and a half, or less, then the Onan shut it self off. This happened on both legs of the trip. OAT was in the 90s. The Onan would not start back up until it had cooled off. My first thought was the oil getting too thin, as I had replaced the LOP switch back in December, so I know it is good.
I had never had this happen before. The other possibility is the fuel pump overheating and shutting off. Some friends were discussing this same problem on one of their SOBs and when the guy replaced the fuel pump, he never had the problem again. I'm looking for ideas here. I hate to change out the fuel pump and still have the thing shut down. My wife would be asking embarrassing questions about my diagnostic ability. What do you guys think?
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: Type of oil [message #171925 is a reply to message #171923] |
Sun, 03 June 2012 21:48 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Sir: personally I would sell somethin she didnt kno about and replace the pump.
I hate to change out the fuel pump and still have the thing shut down. My wife would be asking embarrassing questions about my diagnostic ability. What do you guys think? [/quote]
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Type of oil [message #171926 is a reply to message #171914] |
Sun, 03 June 2012 21:49 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| bhayes wrote on Sun, 03 June 2012 17:37 |
I've been having similar issues with my Onan, but haven't found the cause just yet. It runs great for a while, eventually starts to sputter, and then dies. I spoke with an Onan parts specialist at my local Onan dealer who knows these old Onans well, and he recommended 15W-40. According to him, other weight oils can get too thin in hot weather, which causes the oil pressure to drop and the low oil pressure switch to shut the engine down. ...
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If I Understand It Correctly: 15w-40 is the same "thickness" as straight 15w oil. It remains pretty much that "thick" up to the temperature that straight 40w thins to the same "thickness."
Our coaches and Onans, were manufactured during times that straight weight oils were the "norm."
-----> Has anyone actually looked at the manual? <-----
If you do not have one, you can get a CD/DVD (recommended:<http://bdub.net/tomlins/index.html>) or download from BDub's site. <http://bdub.net/GMCLinks.html> Look for the "MANUALS" link. I did NOT give a straight link to the manual so you would look at all the information available.
The Onwer's Manual is good reading to most new owners but there are a few other items all GMC owners should know... maybe read this??: <http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/required_gmc_knowledge/required_gmc_info.html>
For the Onan sputtering an quiting, most of my poor running Onan problems have turned out to be points related. (The design is very hard to adjust properly.) The Pentronix upgrade helps.... A LOT. But dirty or needing rebuild carburetors and fuel pumps are quite likely on "sitting" coaches. Either can be fixed by anyone with a little small engine repair knowledge. (I would recommend a class at your local community collage.... cheaper than an Onan dealer!)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Type of oil [message #171982 is a reply to message #171925] |
Mon, 04 June 2012 10:06 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| C Boyd wrote on Sun, 03 June 2012 19:48 |
Sir: personally I would sell somethin she didnt kno about and replace the pump.
I hate to change out the fuel pump and still have the thing shut down. My wife would be asking embarrassing questions about my diagnostic ability. What do you guys think?
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[/quote]
Not a bad idea Chuck. I had to do stuff like that all the time when I was married to my EX-wife (emphasis on EX). Fortunately, I don't have to run an 'underground' economy with Kathy. I might just replace the pump anyway.
What do you guys think about adding a bottle of STP? That stuff is so thick, it's bound to increase the viscosity of the oil somewhat.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Type of oil [message #172008 is a reply to message #171801] |
Mon, 04 June 2012 12:19 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
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On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:35 PM, stephen and natasha
<riley_61306@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So today, the generator started bogging down and eventually died...... Then about an hour later on our 30 mile trip back from the brake shop the engine died twice!
>The engine my husband has narrowed done to it being 3 quarts low on oil ......so question one what type of oil do we use? And let's hope that's the problem there.
Okay, let's get back to what the problem might really be.
Firstly, I don't think your engine died because it was three quarts
low on oil. Unless you revved the engine up to 4000 RPMs, being three
quarts low might not have immediate consequences, so if the engine is
otherwise still running happily, then I would postpone worrying about
that until later, Just keep a closer eye on the dipstick. Any good oil
will work in a well-broken-in engine. I use Mobil 1 15W50 because I
have a lot of it still in the original formula, and I don't drive in
cold weather.
For low oil to cause an engine to die, it would have to be so low
that it caused the oil pump to run dry, which would cause the engine
to seize up. You wouldn't be able to restart it easily at all. You
might not be able to restart it ever again. There is no oil-pressure
safety switch on a GMC engine as supplied by the factory, so there's
no mechanism to shut the engine down as a result of low oil, other
than the engine getting too hot and the internal parts gluing
themselves together. (One possible exception is this: If you have an
electric fuel pump that someone has wire to an oil pressure switch so
that if the engine dies for some reason the fuel pump will shut off,
then that could have caused a not-quite-yet-fatal engine shutdown when
out of oil. But I'll bet that's not the case here. It was certainly
not that way from the factory.)
I don't much believe in coincidences, and when I have two problems
that appear at once, I'm going to look for a common cause. And you had
two conditions: Onan died, chassis engine died. I'm going to assign a
potential common cause: Vapor lock.
Vapor lock is cause by heat, and when coupled with very low fuel
pressure (such as on the suction side of a pump) can cause the
gasoline to vaporize. That vapor bubble won't pump, and the engines
become starved for fuel and dies, usually when under load. Then, you
stop, are no longer asking for power, pump some fresh gas into the
carb, and it starts right up--until the next uphill grade. Because it
is heat related, hot days are by far the most likely to present the
problem. This is my number one candidate for explaining your problem.
The best solution available easily is to install a supplemental
electric pump back by the tank to boost the pressure enough to prevent
vaporization, but on a really hot day with a low-vapor-pressure mix of
gasoline (particularly left over winter gas), even that might not
fully solve the problem.
It could also be fuel filters, though that doesn't explain the Onan
dying first (unless your tanks are rusty, which will clog everything
indiscriminately). If you haven't replaced them, do so. If they are
full of rust, the tanks will need to be dropped and inspected,
including the filter socks on the fuel pickups in the tanks.
And if the Onan died first, it could be as simple as running out of
gas. The Onan's fuel feed is about a third of the way up on the main
tank, which is the rearward of the two tanks. If you went down a steep
hill, and the gasoline flowed into the forward tank (which it will
do), and you were fairly low on gas anyway, you might end up with less
than a third of a tank in the rear tank, and the Onan would die. Then,
a while later, that tank starts to run dry altogether, and the main
engine dies. It restarts once--normal, as gasoline sloshes around
those shallow, wide tanks quite a bit. And maybe all that stopping and
started sloshed a bit of fuel back from the forward tank. The two
tanks connect also about a third of the way up, so when the main tank
runs out, you have maybe six or eight gallons in the auxiliary tank
(assuming fairly level driving).
Put some gas in the tank, wait a bit, change and inspect the fuel
filters, check the dipstick one more time, and then try again, at
least in the local neighborhood.
Rick "whose coach has had both rusty tanks and vapor lock, seeing both
your symptoms on hot days" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Type of oil [message #172071 is a reply to message #172008] |
Mon, 04 June 2012 21:54 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Excellent analysis, Rick.
There's one other scenario that comes to mind -- IF it's a Coachmen-built
coach: The Onan and the 455 share the fuel line from the the main tank --
no independent Onan connection to the tank.
In that case, vapor lock which formed a bubble between the tank and the
location where the Onan Tee's off of the line to the 455 could disable them
both. And if the filter sock in the tank is partially blocked, that would
be a logical location for a bubble since the section of hose would be
subjected to the load of both fuel pumps.
Ain't it fun??? :-(
Ken H.
On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Richard Denney wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:35 PM, stephen and natasha wrote:
>
> > So today, the generator started bogging down and eventually died......
> Then about an hour later on our 30 mile trip back from the brake shop the
> engine died twice! ...
>
> Okay, let's get back to what the problem might really be.
> ...
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Type of oil [message #172072 is a reply to message #171926] |
Mon, 04 June 2012 22:07 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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""If I Understand It Correctly: 15w-40 is the same "thickness" as straight 15w oil. It remains pretty much that "thick" up to the temperature that straight 40w thins to the same "thickness."
Our coaches and Onans, were manufactured during times that straight weight oils were the "norm."
""
If you are using dino oil, the viscosity modifiers comprise a large volume of the oil and they have no lubricating properties. The Onan is a crude design by today's standards and I don't think multi viscosity oil is all that appropriate unless you need it for widely varying temperatures.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Type of oil [message #172083 is a reply to message #172072] |
Tue, 05 June 2012 00:49 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Bob,
I understand what you're saying, however, lets look at it from the opposite
viewpoint.
Considering loads that the old Onan sees and that it chugs along at 1800 rpm
do you think running the same modern multi viscosity that one runs in their
Olds, Caddy; or any other GMC engine could/would harm it?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
If you are using dino oil, the viscosity modifiers comprise a large volume
of the oil and they have no lubricating properties. The Onan is a crude
design by today's standards and I don't think multi viscosity oil is all
that appropriate unless you need it for widely varying temperatures.
--
Bob
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Type of oil [message #172266 is a reply to message #172083] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 14:28 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 04 June 2012 23:49 |
Bob,
I understand what you're saying, however, lets look at it from the opposite
viewpoint.
Considering loads that the old Onan sees and that it chugs along at 1800 rpm
do you think running the same modern multi viscosity that one runs in their
Olds, Caddy; or any other GMC engine could/would harm it?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
If you are using dino oil, the viscosity modifiers comprise a large volume
of the oil and they have no lubricating properties. The Onan is a crude
design by today's standards and I don't think multi viscosity oil is all
that appropriate unless you need it for widely varying temperatures.
--
Bob
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Bob,
I understand what you're saying, however, lets look at it from the opposite
viewpoint.
Considering loads that the old Onan sees and that it chugs along at 1800 rpm
do you think running the same modern multi viscosity that one runs in their
Olds, Caddy; or any other GMC engine could/would harm it?
""
I don't think it would harm it at all, but in my case, consumption was up and it seemed noisier. If the Onan burns any oil at all, I would stay away from synthetic since that can create some very nasty glass like deposits on the valves.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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