Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to?
| [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171124] |
Mon, 28 May 2012 19:28  |
Robin Hood
Messages: 1078
Registered: April 2011
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So I tested my first jack stand... I was able to pull it apart by hand.
This is probably a sign of a prOblem somewhere in my process.
I put a generous glob of white all purpose heavy duty construction adhesive
on all layers, applie with my caulk gun. I did NOT put any weight on top of
it. Was this my problem?
I put down a ton more glue put the pyramid back together, and put a three
gallon pail of water on it. If it pulls apart tomorrow I'm going to need
further help. :/
In other news, I bought the rest of the treated 2x4s I need for 8 jack
stands, and marked them up for all the cuts. I just want to be sure I've
got ONE built right before I go any further. Having one or more of these
come unglued (literally) would be a Bad Thing(tm).
--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2003 Buick Lesabre
1968 Pontiac Catalina
1978 GMC Royale motorhome
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171130 is a reply to message #171124] |
Mon, 28 May 2012 19:48  |
Galen
Messages: 146
Registered: November 2011
Location: New Virginia, IA
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I don't about your all purpose adhesive, but I use PL Premium poly for anything wood I don't want to come apart, ever. It will tear the wood fibers apart before it releases.
Galen Briggs
New Virginia, Iowa
1978 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171137 is a reply to message #171124] |
Mon, 28 May 2012 20:15 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Robin,
I don't have any experience with wooden jack stands as I bought four of
these from Harbor Freight:
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-heavy-duty-jack-stands-38846.html
I also bought four of these if I want to get the GMC REALLY high off the
ground safely:
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-jack-stands-34924.html
IIRC your GMC is parked on soil so you would have to make up 3/4" plywood
bases to sit these on to distribute the load or they would sink into the
ground. I reckon 12" x 12" would suffice.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Hood
So I tested my first jack stand... I was able to pull it apart by hand.
This is probably a sign of a prOblem somewhere in my process.
I put a generous glob of white all purpose heavy duty construction adhesive
on all layers, applie with my caulk gun. I did NOT put any weight on top of
it. Was this my problem?
I put down a ton more glue put the pyramid back together, and put a three
gallon pail of water on it. If it pulls apart tomorrow I'm going to need
further help. :/
In other news, I bought the rest of the treated 2x4s I need for 8 jack
stands, and marked them up for all the cuts. I just want to be sure I've
got ONE built right before I go any further. Having one or more of these
come unglued (literally) would be a Bad Thing(tm).
Robin
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Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171143 is a reply to message #171124] |
Mon, 28 May 2012 20:50 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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Just a caution on the ratcheting jack stands, they can come down unexpectedly! A friend had his Porsche up on these, and all of a sudden, it collapsed. He wasn't sure if his knee may have hit the release or if the engagement tang wasn't fully engaged. Luckily, there were other people there to get him back out, but it could have been much worse.
The homemade wooden ones should work fine, but is there any reason not to simply use some deck screws through the wood blocks along with construction adhesive?
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171151 is a reply to message #171143] |
Mon, 28 May 2012 21:25 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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George,
Agreed!
However, I doubt if hitting the lever with his knee could have released the
engagement tank IF it was FULLY ENGAGED.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: George Rudawsky
Just a caution on the ratcheting jack stands, they can come down
unexpectedly! A friend had his Porsche up on these, and all of a sudden, it
collapsed. He wasn't sure if his knee may have hit the release or if the
engagement tang wasn't fully engaged. Luckily, there were other people
there to get him back out, but it could have been much worse.
The homemade wooden ones should work fine, but is there any reason not to
simply use some deck screws through the wood blocks along with construction
adhesive?
--
George
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171180 is a reply to message #171156] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 03:10 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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#12 nail is cheaper.
Why are you building eight, do you have two coaches?
On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
> Robin,
>
> Don't over-think it! It's what stops me from too many things. Deck screws
> and a cordless drill will have each level done in about a minute.
>
> Larry Davick
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 28, 2012, at 7:38 PM, Robin Hood <loxley@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > People are telling me offline that gluing treated pine can be
> problematical.
> >
> > Screws it is. :) I was hoping to avoid screws in favor of glue due to the
> > number required: 4 per layer times ten layers times 8 jack stands. Just
> > gluing would have been sooo much faster.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Robin Hood
> > Jackson, MS
> > 2003 Buick Lesabre
> > 1968 Pontiac Catalina
> > 1978 GMC Royale motorhome
> > 1977 GMC Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171191 is a reply to message #171124] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 07:39 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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The glue should be for convenience, it isn't supporting the weight of the coach. Best clamp would be the coach.. jack it a bit, slide the stand under, lower it, and let the glue set. Glue always does better under pressure. However, the glue you're using >may< not stick to treated lumber... some won't.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norria
'76 palm beach
From: Robin Hood <loxley@gmail.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 8:28 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to?
So I tested my first jack stand... I was able to pull it apart by hand.
This is probably a sign of a prOblem somewhere in my process.
I put a generous glob of white all purpose heavy duty construction adhesive
on all layers, applie with my caulk gun. I did NOT put any weight on top of
it. Was this my problem?
I put down a ton more glue put the pyramid back together, and put a three
gallon pail of water on it. If it pulls apart tomorrow I'm going to need
further help. :/
In other news, I bought the rest of the treated 2x4s I need for 8 jack
stands, and marked them up for all the cuts. I just want to be sure I've
got ONE built right before I go any further. Having one or more of these
come unglued (literally) would be a Bad Thing(tm).
--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2003 Buick Lesabre
1968 Pontiac Catalina
1978 GMC Royale motorhome
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171192 is a reply to message #171124] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 07:46 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Robin Hood wrote on Mon, 28 May 2012 20:28 |
So I tested my first jack stand... I was able to pull it apart by hand.
This is probably a sign of a problem somewhere in my process.
I put a generous glob of white all purpose heavy duty construction adhesive on all layers, applie with my caulk gun. I did NOT put any weight on top of it. Was this my problem?
I put down a ton more glue put the pyramid back together, and put a three gallon pail of water on it. If it pulls apart tomorrow I'm going to need further help. :/
In other news, I bought the rest of the treated 2x4s I need for 8 jack stands, and marked them up for all the cuts. I just want to be sure I've got ONE built right before I go any further. Having one or more of these come unglued (literally) would be a Bad Thing(tm).
--
Robin Hood
|
Robin,
I think I know what your problem is/was (from experience).
Treating lumber is a process that forces a water based solution into the wood grain. The lumber ends up very wet. (DUH!) Construction adhesives don't work well with wet wood. Then there is the problem that the wood will shrink across the grain as it drys and this can shear the glued joints.
Unfortunately, I do not have a simple solution to your problem.
Joining the pieces with plated deck screws or nails might be better. I bet that if you drive a nail into any piece, you get water coming out. Letting the lumber dry for a while will also help. You will not be able to air-dry it to the moisture content that will may everybody happy.
The pressure treating process drives the solution about 1~1-1/2 inches into the endgrain, but only 1/4~3/8 across the grain. This will be a problem to the cut ends that end up on the ground. You can get stuff for the cut endgrain. I had to stand a bunch of pieces in a bucket for a couple of days. That structure is still in good shape 25+ years later.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171194 is a reply to message #171137] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 08:02 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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I bought 2 pairs of the Torin Big Red jacks, T43002A.
These are double locking, 3-ton units that have a pin
that is inserted THROUGH the top section of the jack
to prevent accidental dropping if the ratchetin lever
is somehow dislodged.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> From: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:15:20 +1000
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to?
>
> Robin,
>
> I don't have any experience with wooden jack stands as I bought four of
> these from Harbor Freight:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-heavy-duty-jack-stands-38846.html
>
> I also bought four of these if I want to get the GMC REALLY high off the
> ground safely:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-jack-stands-34924.html
>
> IIRC your GMC is parked on soil so you would have to make up 3/4" plywood
> bases to sit these on to distribute the load or they would sink into the
> ground. I reckon 12" x 12" would suffice.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin Hood
>
> So I tested my first jack stand... I was able to pull it apart by hand.
> This is probably a sign of a prOblem somewhere in my process.
>
> I put a generous glob of white all purpose heavy duty construction adhesive
> on all layers, applie with my caulk gun. I did NOT put any weight on top of
> it. Was this my problem?
>
> I put down a ton more glue put the pyramid back together, and put a three
> gallon pail of water on it. If it pulls apart tomorrow I'm going to need
> further help. :/
>
> In other news, I bought the rest of the treated 2x4s I need for 8 jack
> stands, and marked them up for all the cuts. I just want to be sure I've
> got ONE built right before I go any further. Having one or more of these
> come unglued (literally) would be a Bad Thing(tm).
>
> Robin
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171205 is a reply to message #171194] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 09:18 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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I forgot to mention that the Torin jacks came from
Northern Tool, P/N 144853-1204 that were listed at
$20.99 in the 2012 Winter clearance catalog.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> From: k2gkk@hotmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 08:02:01 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to?
>
>
> I bought 2 pairs of the Torin Big Red jacks, T43002A.
> These are double locking, 3-ton units that have a pin
> that is inserted THROUGH the top section of the jack
> to prevent accidental dropping if the ratchetin lever
> is somehow dislodged.
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>
>
>
> > From: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:15:20 +1000
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to?
> >
> > Robin,
> >
> > I don't have any experience with wooden jack stands as I bought four of
> > these from Harbor Freight:
> >
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-heavy-duty-jack-stands-38846.html
> >
> > I also bought four of these if I want to get the GMC REALLY high off the
> > ground safely:
> >
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-jack-stands-34924.html
> >
> > IIRC your GMC is parked on soil so you would have to make up 3/4" plywood
> > bases to sit these on to distribute the load or they would sink into the
> > ground. I reckon 12" x 12" would suffice.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob M.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171208 is a reply to message #171192] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 09:44 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Treating lumber is a process that forces a water based solution into the wood grain. The lumber ends up very wet. (DUH!) Construction adhesives don't work well with wet wood. Then there is the problem that the wood will shrink across the grain as it drys and this can shear the glued joints.
>
Matt, what's your opinion of polyurethane construction adhesive? It's
intended for marine applications under the water line, and it actually
requires the presence of moisture to cure fully. Your a boat guy and
ought to know how well it works.
Related to the thread: Ratcheting jackstands are not really
ratcheting. They just have a pawl that engages the stand column at
useful positions when it is raised up. If the pawl is fully engaged, I
don't see how it can let go--load forces further engagement. Unless
the part breaks from being overloaded, or (more likely) wasn't fully
engaged and checked in the first place. I knew a Porsche collector in
my prior job--it's not a mistake I would have put past him, heh. But
he understood the workings of his espresso machine in detail.
The bigger worry with jackstands is being loaded off-center and
overturning or slipping. Careful and correct placement is essential. I
use the big ones with a wide base for the coach, rated for at least
two times their loading.
Driving up on stacked boards would be more accurately described as
ramps rather than jackstands.
Rick "who has worked under the coach on jackstands many times with
caution but not worry" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171212 is a reply to message #171192] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 09:45 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Treating lumber is a process that forces a water based solution into the wood grain. The lumber ends up very wet. (DUH!) Construction adhesives don't work well with wet wood. Then there is the problem that the wood will shrink across the grain as it drys and this can shear the glued joints.
>
Matt, what's your opinion of polyurethane construction adhesive? It's
intended for marine applications under the water line, and it actually
requires the presence of moisture to cure fully. Your a boat guy and
ought to know how well it works.
Related to the thread: Ratcheting jackstands are not really
ratcheting. They just have a pawl that engages the stand column at
useful positions when it is raised up. If the pawl is fully engaged, I
don't see how it can let go--load forces further engagement. Unless
the part breaks from being overloaded, or (more likely) wasn't fully
engaged and checked in the first place. I knew a Porsche collector in
my prior job--it's not a mistake I would have put past him, heh. But
he understood the workings of his espresso machine in detail.
The bigger worry with jackstands is being loaded off-center and
overturning or slipping. Careful and correct placement is essential. I
use the big ones with a wide base for the coach, rated for at least
two times their loading.
Driving up on stacked boards would be more accurately described as
ramps rather than jackstands.
Rick "who has worked under the coach on jackstands many times with
caution but not worry" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171224 is a reply to message #171124] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 10:38 |
Galen
Messages: 146
Registered: November 2011
Location: New Virginia, IA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I've built a couple of small boats and used PL Premium for the initial glue up, follow by epoxy fillets. I've also use the PL Premium to make glue-lam beams and posts, and used it on treated and untreated lumber, exterior and marine plywood. I've always used screws or ring shank nails to hold every thing together nice and tight until everything dries.
Before I used it on the first boat I built, I made a number of perpendicular butt joints using plywood, treated, and untreated lumber (making a "T" with the butt several inches from the end). I applied the glue under the butt, and a small fillet on each side, and clamped. After they cured, I drove over them with my Bronco just to see how well the glue would hold up. The plies will separate on plywood, and the wood fibers will tear apart on lumber. In no case did the PL glue pull apart. As inidicated by others, you have to clamp it while gluing, or use nails/screws to keep it from moving due to expansion.
Galen Briggs
New Virginia, Iowa
1978 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171247 is a reply to message #171214] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 12:50 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Harry wrote on Tue, 29 May 2012 07:54 |
Gorilla Glue works best with moist wood.
|
In fact it will NOT cure without SOME moisture.
Still needs clamped, nailed or screwed to provide the stability and clamping force until it cures.
I have built some of the 2x4 jack stands, they work better than the "purchased metal ones" on "unstable" non-hard surfaces, like my gravel GMC Lot.
OBTW: I keep old disk brake rotors to fit under my smaller metal jack stands. It really helps to stabilize them.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171248 is a reply to message #171208] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 12:50 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Richard Denney wrote on Tue, 29 May 2012 10:44 |
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
> Treating lumber is a process that forces a water based solution into the wood grain. The lumber ends up very wet. (DUH!) Construction adhesives don't work well with wet wood. Then there is the problem that the wood will shrink across the grain as it drys and this can shear the glued joints.
>
Matt, what's your opinion of polyurethane construction adhesive? It's intended for marine applications under the water line, and it actually requires the presence of moisture to cure fully. Your a boat guy and ought to know how well it works.
<snip>
Rick "who has worked under the coach on jackstands many times with caution but not worry" Denney
|
Rick,
Yes, They are soundly water proof when cured and are seldom affected by damp materials, but, damp is different than saturated. I have used them successfully but again with materials in the 15~20% moisture range.
I used to buy and use a lot of treated wood in a year and I got very used to having it squirt water at me when I drove nails. Goggles were essential as the chemicals used in treating (used to be CCA (Chromated Copper Arsenate) is real tough on eyes.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171249 is a reply to message #171224] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 13:08 |
|
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Galen wrote on Tue, 29 May 2012 11:38 |
I've built a couple of small boats and used PL Premium for the initial glue up, follow by epoxy fillets. I've also use the PL Premium to make glue-lam beams and posts, and used it on treated and untreated lumber, exterior and marine plywood. I've always used screws or ring shank nails to hold every thing together nice and tight until everything dries.
Before I used it on the first boat I built, I made a number of perpendicular butt joints using plywood, treated, and untreated lumber (making a "T" with the butt several inches from the end). I applied the glue under the butt, and a small fillet on each side, and clamped. After they cured, I drove over them with my Bronco just to see how well the glue would hold up. The plies will separate on plywood, and the wood fibers will tear apart on lumber. In no case did the PL glue pull apart. As inidicated by others, you have to clamp it while gluing, or use nails/screws to keep it from moving due to expansion.
Galen
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Galen,
I too have done evaluations of adhesive only joints and it is somewhat awesome (in the true sense). I did that before a built a boat (on consignment) that required a scarph to get 14' of marine plywood to bend onto the frames. I saved a test piece to break in front of the owner. The way he jumped when it finally failed was amusing.
While I still have to some formaldehyde/resorcinol on the shelf for repairing structures made with that, but I now work almost exclusively with epoxy.
I am not fond of most of the urethanes. Many of those expand forcefully as they cure. This is particularly true of Gorilla Glue. And yes, GG does need some moisture to cure. 15~20% is still just fine, in fact, where I did use it to make a bond to an aluminum extrusion, I had to moisten the surface of both the extrusion and the laminate to get it to bond effectively. But that is still different than the saturation that is common to treated dimensional lumber.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Construction adhesive how to? [message #171274 is a reply to message #171249] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 17:11 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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I'm one of those guys that is totally paranoid about even getting under a car on a commercial hoist. When I do get under my GMC I usually have 3 layers of support. Must have been something in my previous life I guess 
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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