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| lower a arm sockets [message #171110] |
Mon, 28 May 2012 16:20  |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Now back to my original thought before I got on my soapbox a few minutes ago. I was lucky enough to not even know my left lower A arm socket had spun till I went to take it out friday night and put in adjustable porkchops. My wife wanted to go camping this weekend and everyone knows what happens if mama isn't happy, no just kidding, I wanted to go as bad her her.
So I remember a suggestion of spacing the tbar back into the good reinforced area of socket and moving the crossmember back 2 inches. Worked like a champ except fpr the interference from the exhaust Y. So my question is, It looks like the spot I have the Tbar at now is much stronger than the unreinforced area it was at. So has anyone ran tbars spaced like this very long, or do I go ahead and start looking at 1 ton conversion and be done with it. By the way I expect the cat to come back soon, he left in a hurry when I got the tbar to pop loose using my combination of pipe wrench and floor jack to twist the bar the opposite way, he was next to it when it popped loose.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] lower a arm sockets [message #171112 is a reply to message #171110] |
Mon, 28 May 2012 16:56  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Skip,
While I'm sorry to hear about your burst socket, I'm glad to hear someone's
trying the aft placement of the TB and that it's working OK.
What did you insert in the socket to prevent the TB from shifting forward?
How did you correct the exhaust problem?
Personally, and it's just an educated guess, I'd say there's more reason to
worry about the TB itself with those pipe wrench scars than about the A-arm
blowing out in the new load area.
Ken H.
On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Skip Hartline wrote:
>
>
> Now back to my original thought before I got on my soapbox a few minutes
> ago. I was lucky enough to not even know my left lower A arm socket had
> spun till I went to take it out friday night and put in adjustable
> porkchops. My wife wanted to go camping this weekend and everyone knows
> what happens if mama isn't happy, no just kidding, I wanted to go as bad
> her her.
> So I remember a suggestion of spacing the tbar back into the good
> reinforced area of socket and moving the crossmember back 2 inches. Worked
> like a champ except fpr the interference from the exhaust Y. So my question
> is, It looks like the spot I have the Tbar at now is much stronger than the
> unreinforced area it was at. So has anyone ran tbars spaced like this very
> long, or do I go ahead and start looking at 1 ton conversion and be done
> with it. By the way I expect the cat to come back soon, he left in a hurry
> when I got the tbar to pop loose using my combination of pipe wrench and
> floor jack to twist the bar the opposite way, he was next to it when it
> popped loose.
>
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] lower a arm sockets [message #171119 is a reply to message #171112] |
Mon, 28 May 2012 18:24 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Cut some 1 inch schedule 40 PVC about 2.5 inches and it just about centered the tb in the 6 sided sleeve where it was good and the piece of the a arm that is welded arounded the sleeve is about 1/3 up the flat spot after it tapers to the round so it is in, what I feel is, a much stonger spot than before. with that placement the crossmember came out to being moved back 2". I thought about the pipe wrench scar but that was the only way I could think of getting hold of it and it really didn't dig in very deep. The exhaust at that point has about 1/2" clearance but I haven't got the support back on it. But it did mean some fancy finagaling to get the tbars in the porkchops. If I had a helper it would have been probably easier. Of course I had to do both sides, No warning though because I had them out about 500 miles ago and the inside of the sleeve showed no wear by optical or digital exam. If GM knew these beast would still be on the road 35plus years later maybe they could have made the 6 sides flat end of the TB about twice as long and used all the socket.Wonder if there are aftermarket tb's with long engagement areas available.
cats back.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] lower a arm sockets [message #171131 is a reply to message #171110] |
Mon, 28 May 2012 19:47 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
I may have missed something here. The MM instructs you to pull the torsion
bars all the way back into the pork chop and have them hard up against the
cross member.
If I understand what Skip has noted below following that instruction does
not locate the hex on the end of the torsion bar in the middle of the socket
in the lower control arm where the reinforcement is!
Am I correct?
Regards,
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: Skip Hartline
Now back to my original thought before I got on my soapbox a few minutes
ago. I was lucky enough to not even know my left lower A arm socket had spun
till I went to take it out friday night and put in adjustable porkchops. My
wife wanted to go camping this weekend and everyone knows what happens if
mama isn't happy, no just kidding, I wanted to go as bad her her.
So I remember a suggestion of spacing the tbar back into the good reinforced
area of socket and moving the crossmember back 2 inches. Worked like a champ
except fpr the interference from the exhaust Y. So my question is, It looks
like the spot I have the Tbar at now is much stronger than the unreinforced
area it was at. So has anyone ran tbars spaced like this very long, or do I
go ahead and start looking at 1 ton conversion and be done with it. By the
way I expect the cat to come back soon, he left in a hurry when I got the
tbar to pop loose using my combination of pipe wrench and floor jack to
twist the bar the opposite way, he was next to it when it popped loose.
Skip
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] lower a arm sockets [message #171135 is a reply to message #171131] |
Mon, 28 May 2012 20:03 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
You're forgetting the problem I had with the socket when I installed the
1-Ton kit: The socket was "blown out" in the area where the TB hex should,
and did, seat. My reaction at the time was, "Why doesn't the TB seat in
the area of the socket where it's naturally reinforced by the sides of the
A-arm stamping?" Skip's just implementing that idea: Moving the TB aft 2"
to move the hex from the damaged, lightly reinforced, area into what
appears to be the strongest area of the socket.
Even with my reinforced arms for the 1-Ton, I'm tempted to do that mod too
-- when I catch up from all the thrust bearing games and give out of things
to do. :-)
It's interesting that Skip carefully examined his sockets recently, only to
have the failure occur within 500 miles. Manny should feel better now: He
may not have missed the damage to my arm -- it may not have been visible
when he examined it.
Incidentally, there is one other possible solution for blown sockets:
SuspensionMaxx at least prototyped an adapter which should allow the 4"
shorter 1-Ton TB's to be used, despite their 1-1/2" (vs GMC 1-1/4") hex
ends. That adapter has a 1-1/2" socket with a 1-1/4" hex extension to
extend all the way through the GMC's socket -- looks like a big
square-drive allen wrench. It's designed to all the use of 1-Ton TB's with
no other mod to the GMC, except perhaps enlarging the TB hole in the #4
crossmember where the TB enters the pork chop (which would have to be a
special from SuspensionMaxx. This won't be a cheap solution, considering
the cost of the SuspensionMaxx components and the 1-Ton TB's. Nor has
anyone, AFAIK, researched which specific vehicles have appropriately rated
1-Ton TB's.
Ken H.
On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I may have missed something here. The MM instructs you to pull the torsion
> bars all the way back into the pork chop and have them hard up against the
> cross member.
>
> If I understand what Skip has noted below following that instruction does
> not locate the hex on the end of the torsion bar in the middle of the
> socket
> in the lower control arm where the reinforcement is!
>
> Am I correct?
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skip Hartline
>
> Now back to my original thought before I got on my soapbox a few minutes
> ago. I was lucky enough to not even know my left lower A arm socket had
> spun
> till I went to take it out friday night and put in adjustable porkchops. My
> wife wanted to go camping this weekend and everyone knows what happens if
> mama isn't happy, no just kidding, I wanted to go as bad her her.
> So I remember a suggestion of spacing the tbar back into the good
> reinforced
> area of socket and moving the crossmember back 2 inches. Worked like a
> champ
> except fpr the interference from the exhaust Y. So my question is, It looks
> like the spot I have the Tbar at now is much stronger than the unreinforced
> area it was at. So has anyone ran tbars spaced like this very long, or do I
> go ahead and start looking at 1 ton conversion and be done with it. By the
> way I expect the cat to come back soon, he left in a hurry when I got the
> tbar to pop loose using my combination of pipe wrench and floor jack to
> twist the bar the opposite way, he was next to it when it popped loose.
> Skip
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] lower a arm sockets [message #171278 is a reply to message #171131] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 17:29 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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After a few rough location trials I ended up with the tb's right at the back of the crossmember and the only modification I saw on my a-arms was grease fittings on the front of them which Jim K said used to be a mod that was thought to help the lives of the socket. I had no reinforcement in the part that fails which you can only look at but I don't know how you would weld in a backing plate. I thought I saw a picture somewhere where it looked like someone welded a deep impact socket in place of the stock faucet stem tool socket.
Skip
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] lower a arm sockets [message #171487 is a reply to message #171131] |
Thu, 31 May 2012 07:37 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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That is correct Rob. I paint the ends of the TB white so I can visually
check and make sure they are located correctly in the pork chop.
On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I may have missed something here. The MM instructs you to pull the torsion
> bars all the way back into the pork chop and have them hard up against the
> cross member.
>
> If I understand what Skip has noted below following that instruction does
> not locate the hex on the end of the torsion bar in the middle of the
> socket
> in the lower control arm where the reinforcement is!
>
> Am I correct?
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skip Hartline
>
> Now back to my original thought before I got on my soapbox a few minutes
> ago. I was lucky enough to not even know my left lower A arm socket had
> spun
> till I went to take it out friday night and put in adjustable porkchops. My
> wife wanted to go camping this weekend and everyone knows what happens if
> mama isn't happy, no just kidding, I wanted to go as bad her her.
> So I remember a suggestion of spacing the tbar back into the good
> reinforced
> area of socket and moving the crossmember back 2 inches. Worked like a
> champ
> except fpr the interference from the exhaust Y. So my question is, It looks
> like the spot I have the Tbar at now is much stronger than the unreinforced
> area it was at. So has anyone ran tbars spaced like this very long, or do I
> go ahead and start looking at 1 ton conversion and be done with it. By the
> way I expect the cat to come back soon, he left in a hurry when I got the
> tbar to pop loose using my combination of pipe wrench and floor jack to
> twist the bar the opposite way, he was next to it when it popped loose.
> Skip
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Fathom the hypocrisy of a nation where every citizen must prove they have
health insurance......but not everyone has to prove they're a citizen.
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] lower a arm sockets [message #171520 is a reply to message #171496] |
Thu, 31 May 2012 12:51 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Looking back over the messages I sent here & there during my 1-Ton TB
problem, I found 58.25" as the OEM TB length.
In fact, the number you're looking for is probably right here:
Q to me:
> 2. would need the length from the rear of the  OE 1.5 socket on the factory A arm to the  centerline of the crossmember ( this may not be possible with your crossmember out)
A from me:
> Given that I know where the forward end of the OEM TB was from the damage, and that it was seated essentially touching the rear of the #4 cross member, I can calculate that distance without #4 installed (I have the advantage of a sketch):
S = Front of OEM socket to its rear = 4.0"
X = Front of OEM socket to leading end of OEM TB = 0.8"
L = Length of OEM TB = 58.25"
W = Width of opening in #4 cross member = 1.4"
D = Distance from rear of OEM socket to #4 cross member centerline
D = L-(S-X)-(W/2) = 58.25-(4-0.8)-(1.4/2) = 58.25-3.2-0.7 = 54.35
I'd call that 54-1/4 +- 1/4 -- the rubber #4 cushion will allow more
than that, probably as much as +-1/2" when completely worn out.
Ken H.
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Robert Mueller wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> Do you (or anybody else) have a torsion bar that's not installed?
>
> If yes could you please measure how long it is?
>
> I'd like to measure from the crossmember to the lower control arm socket to
> find where the hex on the forward end of the torsion bar sits in the lower
> control arm socket.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: lower a arm sockets [message #171591 is a reply to message #171579] |
Thu, 31 May 2012 23:27 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| noi wrote on Thu, 31 May 2012 21:07 |
Rob,
I just did a precision measurement on my TB and it seems to be a bit longer than Ken’s....
My precision measurement showed it to be 58-9/32 or 58.28125 - Somewhat longer than Ken's:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/stuff/p44401-tb-lngth.html
Hah – Just pulling your leg  - Ken’s info is spot on and much sooner that mine – Plus Ken added a whole bunch of other interesting info!
Carl P.
76 Birchaven
South of Fremont
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Bragging?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] lower a arm sockets [message #171595 is a reply to message #171591] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 00:17 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Skip,
The one ton kit does not have the socket beefed up like the way Steve
Ferguson and Bill Hubler has done.
Our Hubler kit has always been beefed up.
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> noi wrote on Thu, 31 May 2012 21:07
>> Rob,
>>
>> I just did a precision measurement on my TB and it seems to be a bit longer than Ken’s....
>>
>> My precision measurement showed it to be 58-9/32 or 58.28125 - Somewhat longer than Ken's:
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/stuff/p44401-tb-lngth.html
>>
>> Hah – Just pulling your leg  :lol:  - Ken’s info is spot on and much sooner that mine – Plus Ken added a whole bunch of other interesting info!
>>
>> Carl P.
>> 76 Birchaven
>> South of Fremont
>
> Bragging?
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] lower a arm sockets [message #171607 is a reply to message #171520] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 03:40 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
Given the information provided by below by KenH and Carl I've made the
following sketch:
www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showfull.php?photo=44404
Does it look correct to all y'all? ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: noi
Rob,
I just did a precision measurement on my TB and it seems to be a bit longer
than Ken's.
My precision measurement showed it to be 58-9/32 or 58.28125 - Somewhat
longer than Ken's:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/stuff/p44401-tb-lngth.html
Hah. Just pulling your leg :lol: - Ken's info is spot on and much sooner
that mine. Plus Ken added a whole bunch of other interesting info!
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson
Rob,
Looking back over the messages I sent here & there during my 1-Ton TB
problem, I found 58.25" as the OEM TB length.
In fact, the number you're looking for is probably right here:
Q to me:
> 2. would need the length from the rear of the OE 1.5 socket on the
factory A arm to the centerline of the crossmember ( this may not be
possible with your crossmember out)
A from me:
> Given that I know where the forward end of the OEM TB was from the damage,
and that it was seated essentially touching the rear of the #4 cross member,
I can calculate that distance without #4 installed (I have the advantage of
a sketch):
S = Front of OEM socket to its rear = 4.0"
X = Front of OEM socket to leading end of OEM TB = 0.8"
L = Length of OEM TB = 58.25"
W = Width of opening in #4 cross member = 1.4"
D = Distance from rear of OEM socket to #4 cross member centerline
D = L-(S-X)-(W/2) = 58.25-(4-0.8)-(1.4/2) = 58.25-3.2-0.7 = 54.35
I'd call that 54-1/4 +- 1/4 -- the rubber #4 cushion will allow more
than that, probably as much as +-1/2" when completely worn out.
Ken H.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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