Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Steering Question
| Steering Question [message #170756] |
Thu, 24 May 2012 18:44  |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 1
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My steering has been acting strange lately. I can feel little clicks in the steering wheel when I turn it (which makes it feel like there's gravel in it, for lack of a better description). The steering also "catches" at certain points when turning, meaning it feels like the steering wheel hits a barrier, and I have to push it harder to get past that point.
I'm thinking CV joint, in part because I discovered that half of the boot is missing. See http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p44311-img-4826.html
or
http://bit.ly/JvFP3n
Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Question [message #170761 is a reply to message #170756] |
Thu, 24 May 2012 19:06  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Brian,
You've DEFINITELY got a steering CV joint problem from your photo.
At risk of boring those who've read this tale many times before: About 8
years ago M/L, I was having trouble like you describe. It progressed to
the point that the catches required conscious effort to overcome them.
Finally, as I was headed from S. GA to Jim Bound's place in Orlando, the
situation got so bad that every time I'd spot a big parking lot, I'd pull
into it and do "dippsy-doodles" (figure 8's, etc) to try to reposition what
I figured were bad balls in the CV. It didn't help.
At Jim's, I tore the CV down and found the balls and raced unblemished. So
I oiled it up and tried to move it -- I hardly could, even with levers
stuck in each end. Jim got on the phone to try to find me a replacement CV
joint. I noticed in his shop a new, unopened tube of Valvoline Synpower
grease with MSO2 (molybdenum disulfide). I opened it and packed the CV
with the grease. Almost like magic, the joint became free and had no
resistance to any normal movement.
After I told Jim to forget the parts search, I re-installed the joint.
It's STILL in there and has never bound up again AT ALL. I do have a good
boot over it and the spline shaft below it and I do give it a shot of
grease every now and then. I've advised a lot of other people to use that
specific grease and every one of them has reported similar satisfaction.
When you disassemble the joint, DO mark the relative positions of the shell
because it can go back together in a number of incorrect relationships --
can be very frustrating. The shell is VERY hard; you may need to use a
Dremel grinder to mark it.
HTH,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Bryan Hayes <hayesnet1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> My steering has been acting strange lately. I can feel little clicks in
> the steering wheel when I turn it (which makes it feel like there's gravel
> in it, for lack of a better description). The steering also "catches" at
> certain points when turning, meaning it feels like the steering wheel hits
> a barrier, and I have to push it harder to get past that point.
>
> I'm thinking CV joint, in part because I discovered that half of the boot
> is missing. See
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p44311-img-4826.html
>
> or
>
> http://bit.ly/JvFP3n
>
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Question [message #171241 is a reply to message #170767] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 12:16 |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Kelvin, I pulled the upper boot back on the CV joint and found it full of water as well. Is there supposed to be a clamp around the upper boot?
Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Question [message #174422 is a reply to message #171446] |
Sun, 24 June 2012 00:44 |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I pulled the steering CV joint out today, took it apart, cleaned it, and packed it with the Valvoline SynPower. Good as new! My coach's PO had a new set of boots for the blue shaft and CV joint among all of the parts he gave me, so I used them. The old CV joint boot still looks good, so I may clean it up and keep it for a spare. I used a cable tie to hold the boot around the upper part of the CV joint flange, but I might replace it with a clamp or something else since cable ties tend to get brittle over time.
The only thing I need to tweak is the steering wheel alignment. It looks like the flattened area on the steering column shaft is supposed to line up with the hole in the CV joint flange. Mine's off a little.
I agree with Rick's suggestion of pulling the grill. I got the CV joint and shaft out just fine with the grill on, but had to remove the grill to get everything back in place.
Thanks for the help, everyone.
Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Question [message #174423 is a reply to message #174422] |
Sun, 24 June 2012 02:05 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Bryan,
IIRC black tie wraps are UV resistant and don't forget to put enough silicone to seal where the clamp holds the CV joint to the
bottom of the steering column.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Hayes
I pulled the steering CV joint out today, took it apart, cleaned it, and packed it with the Valvoline SynPower. Good as new! My
coach's PO had a new set of boots for the blue shaft and CV joint among all of the parts he gave me, so I used them. The old CV
joint boot still looks good, so I may clean it up and keep it for a spare. I used a cable tie to hold the boot around the upper part
of the CV joint flange, but I might replace it with a clamp or something else since cable ties tend to get brittle over time.
The only thing I need to tweak is the steering wheel alignment. It looks like the flattened area on the steering column shaft is
supposed to line up with the hole in the CV joint flange. Mine's off a little.
I agree with Rick's suggestion of pulling the grill. I got the CV joint and shaft out just fine with the grill on, but had to remove
the grill to get everything back in place.
Thanks for the help, everyone.
--
Bryan
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Question [message #174439 is a reply to message #174422] |
Sun, 24 June 2012 09:52 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Bryan,
The trick to line up the notch in the shaft to the hole in the CV
joint is to use a 29/64" drill. If you can insert that all the way
thru then your lined up correctly, if not then you need to move the CV
one spline in the correct direction until the drill slides in. Then
you can insert the bolt and put the nut on and tighten. Dan Lenzi
does this on his setups and also uses a grade 8 bolt and grade 8 self
locking nut and tightens to 70 Ft/lbs.
JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
On Jun 24, 2012, at 1:44 AM, Bryan Hayes wrote:
>
>
> I pulled the steering CV joint out today, took it apart, cleaned it,
> and packed it with the Valvoline SynPower. Good as new! My coach's
> PO had a new set of boots for the blue shaft and CV joint among all
> of the parts he gave me, so I used them. The old CV joint boot still
> looks good, so I may clean it up and keep it for a spare. I used a
> cable tie to hold the boot around the upper part of the CV joint
> flange, but I might replace it with a clamp or something else since
> cable ties tend to get brittle over time.
>
> The only thing I need to tweak is the steering wheel alignment. It
> looks like the flattened area on the steering column shaft is
> supposed to line up with the hole in the CV joint flange. Mine's off
> a little.
>
> I agree with Rick's suggestion of pulling the grill. I got the CV
> joint and shaft out just fine with the grill on, but had to remove
> the grill to get everything back in place.
>
> Thanks for the help, everyone.
> --
> Bryan Hayes
> '76 Eleganza II
> Salt Lake City, Utah
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Question [message #174462 is a reply to message #174456] |
Sun, 24 June 2012 18:41 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Rob: You forgot to say "bizinga". If the steering wheel is not straight and is indexed with the marks under the horn button aligned and the steering shaft is one notch off at the box there is a real good chance the steering box is not centered. The only way the steering box is centered with the steering wheel not straight is the blue shaft is not indexed corectly. Right???
| Robert Mueller wrote on Sun, 24 June 2012 19:04 |
JR,
Thanks for that tip.
You can use the fact that it can be mis-aligned a bit to correct you steering wheel position if it's a bit out of alignment without
having to mess with the tie rod ends equally (screw one in and the other one out).
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wright
Bryan,
The trick to line up the notch in the shaft to the hole in the CV
joint is to use a 29/64" drill. If you can insert that all the way
thru then your lined up correctly, if not then you need to move the CV
one spline in the correct direction until the drill slides in. Then
you can insert the bolt and put the nut on and tighten. Dan Lenzi
does this on his setups and also uses a grade 8 bolt and grade 8 self
locking nut and tightens to 70 Ft/lbs.
JR
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Steering Question [message #174472 is a reply to message #170756] |
Sun, 24 June 2012 19:35 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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A few things-
Rob I think the black ties have a shelf live as well, based on most recent crispy breakage experience on several different sizes of black.
I too vouch for the Synpower grease as the grease to keep in my gun. Don't leave home with out it in all your zerks.
As far as centering the wheel it can be all screwed up and point straight in the coach but it's still wrong, or several permutations of seeming 2 wrongs make a right but it's still not right. If the scribe is not at 12 the turnsignal canceling will not be right. Other than that you could "fix" it by clocking the wheel wrong to but do NOT for the above reason.
In the coach the scribe mark has to be on the C/L of the wheel at 12 O'clock
At each spline the drill bit test is a must.
The Blue intermediate shaft has to be in the right position of the 4 possible ways
Then the box has to be on center via toe and tierod end adjustments. Saganaw Input shaft flat alligned with machined flat surface for the cover. This then puts the Pitman and the idler dead straight ahead and the box on high point.
IF you get really lucky, the wheel will be straight too or within 10 degress or so. If not then you need Dave Lenzi's adjustable draglink to fix that. Since most coaches need an new drag link anyway or soon will, it's a good investment and the oversized ends will probably outlast you if you keep Synpower in there. I also notice in the first picture the CV was looking like it was not full on the steering column spline. We are finding a few of these like this so keep an eye on that.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Question [message #174474 is a reply to message #174472] |
Sun, 24 June 2012 19:40 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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John, I use a lot of Ty-Raps <tm> at work. The black ones have UV retarder, which makes them somewhat more brittle than the natural color ones. We use them only where they are exposed to the sunshine and bus exhaust. Indoors, we use the natural colored ones.
=--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: John R. Lebetski <gransport@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Steering Question
A few things-
Rob I think the black ties have a shelf live as well, based on most recent crispy breakage experience on several different sizes of black.
I too vouch for the Synpower grease as the grease to keep in my gun. Don't leave home with out it in all your zerks.
As far as centering the wheel it can be all screwed up and point straight in the coach but it's still wrong, or several permutations of seeming 2 wrongs make a right but it's still not right. If the scribe is not at 12 the turnsignal canceling will not be right. Other than that you could "fix" it by clocking the wheel wrong to but do NOT for the above reason.
In the coach the scribe mark has to be on the C/L of the wheel at 12 O'clock
At each spline the drill bit test is a must.
The Blue intermediate shaft has to be in the right position of the 4 possible ways
Then the box has to be on center via toe and tierod end adjustments. Saganaw Input shaft flat alligned with machined flat surface for the cover. This then puts the Pitman and the idler dead straight ahead and the box on high point.
IF you get really lucky, the wheel will be straight too or within 10 degress or so. If not then you need Dave Lenzi's adjustable draglink to fix that. Since most coaches need an new drag link anyway or soon will, it's a good investment and the oversized ends will probably outlast you if you keep Synpower in there. I also notice in the first picture the CV was looking like it was not full on the steering column spline. We are finding a few of these like this so keep an eye on that.
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
Source America First
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Question [message #174676 is a reply to message #174644] |
Tue, 26 June 2012 19:02 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Sir: you need to remove the nut that holds the steering wheel to see the mark on the steering wheel. It is suppose to be lined up with the steering shaft mark at 12 o`clock. If the mark on the steering shaft under the horn button is at 12 o`clock with the wheels straight then only the steering wheel is off. You will need to remove the steering wheel and line it up. The blue shaft and the steering box center controls the mark on the shaft. If it is at 12 0`clock with wheels straight you should be ok there.
| bhayes wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 15:14 |
Is the blue intermediate shaft supposed to go into the yoke a certain way? I got the CV joint lined up correctly with the notch on the steering wheel shaft, but the steering wheel is still way off-center to the left when the front wheels are straight. The steering wheel looks to be lined up on the shaft, though. The notch at the top of the shaft points to the 12 o'clock position on the steering wheel.
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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