Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Maiden Voyage
| Maiden Voyage [message #170448] |
Mon, 21 May 2012 18:17  |
Darryl
Messages: 144
Registered: December 2011
Location: Northern California
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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We did a short overnight this past weekend to check out our “new” 78 Eleganza II and learn what works and what doesn’t. Everything worked pretty much as it should although putting up the awning is a relationship building (or at least, testing) experience.
I connected the city water to the connection in the utility compartment but when I turned it on at the hose bib water came out a short plastic tube under the connection and onto the tire. The operating manual says there should be a check valve button at the center of the connection but we don’t seem to have one. I’m guessing that the check valve is not opening and is directing the water down the tube onto the tire. The manual also refers to a “draincock” but I think that is inside the coach, below the connection and accessible from the closet.
Is installing a new connection likely to solve the problem.? Does Jim K have these – I don’t see them on his website.
Darryl Meyers
1978 Eleganza II
El Dorado Hills, CA
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| Re: Maiden Voyage [message #170449 is a reply to message #170448] |
Mon, 21 May 2012 18:20  |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Darryl,
JimK often says -- "just cause you don't see it on our website, don't think we don't have it, we do this work all the time and need to have the parts on hand."
Call him --- it's both informative and entertaining.
And if he doesn't have what you need he tells you where to buy it.
Dennis
| Darryl wrote on Mon, 21 May 2012 18:17 |
We did a short overnight this past weekend to check out our “new” 78 Eleganza II and learn what works and what doesn’t. Everything worked pretty much as it should although putting up the awning is a relationship building (or at least, testing) experience.
I connected the city water to the connection in the utility compartment but when I turned it on at the hose bib water came out a short plastic tube under the connection and onto the tire. The operating manual says there should be a check valve button at the center of the connection but we don’t seem to have one. I’m guessing that the check valve is not opening and is directing the water down the tube onto the tire. The manual also refers to a “draincock” but I think that is inside the coach, below the connection and accessible from the closet.
Is installing a new connection likely to solve the problem.? Does Jim K have these – I don’t see them on his website.
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: Maiden Voyage [message #170475 is a reply to message #170448] |
Mon, 21 May 2012 22:28 |
nchapekis
Messages: 165
Registered: February 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Darryl wrote on Mon, 21 May 2012 19:17 |
I connected the city water to the connection in the utility compartment but when I turned it on at the hose bib water came out a short plastic tube under the connection and onto the tire. The operating manual says there should be a check valve button at the center of the connection but we don’t seem to have one. I’m guessing that the check valve is not opening and is directing the water down the tube onto the tire. The manual also refers to a “draincock” but I think that is inside the coach, below the connection and accessible from the closet.
Is installing a new connection likely to solve the problem.? Does Jim K have these – I don’t see them on his website.
|
The water inlet connection is used in other RVs besides GMC because Camping World carries it:
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/product/abs-plastic-city-water-entry/1458
Solved my problem a couple of years ago (wet hallway when connected to city water). I'd check with the Jims first, but I don't think they carry it.
Nick Chapekis
Ypsilanti, MI
former owner - 78 Kingsley
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| Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage [message #170485 is a reply to message #170463] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 00:08 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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YOU BET
1 last time I went to Palm Desert rally, 3 GMCs flooded, ( they were hooked
up to endless fresh water)
2 when the water tank is empty, it is time to dump
3 the black tank never runs over, it is Macerator dumped
4 I fill the fresh water from known , good, water ,
5 simple and full proof
JWID
geneF
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Gene,
>
> I seem to be missing something the bottom line -- did you completely remove
> the city water connection and now depend only on the gravity fill and the
> water pump?
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 7:45 PM, gene Fisher wrote:
>
> > this is the way I "fixed" the fresh water connection on my 2 GMCs ;>)
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/fresh-water-leak-from-city-water-connection/p26799-slide26.html
> >
> > or
> >
> > http://goo.gl/SnD2K
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage [message #170486 is a reply to message #170475] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 00:21 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Applied has the consolidated tank fill and city water hookup. Just put mine in the war pig couple of weeks ago
Sully
77 royale
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2012, at 8:29 PM, Nick Chapekis <chapekis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Darryl wrote on Mon, 21 May 2012 19:17
>> I connected the city water to the connection in the utility compartment but when I turned it on at the hose bib water came out a short plastic tube under the connection and onto the tire. The operating manual says there should be a check valve button at the center of the connection but we don’t seem to have one. I’m guessing that the check valve is not opening and is directing the water down the tube onto the tire. The manual also refers to a “draincock” but I think that is inside the coach, below the connection and accessible from the closet.
>>
>> Is installing a new connection likely to solve the problem.? Does Jim K have these – I don’t see them on his website.
>
> The water inlet connection is used in other RVs besides GMC because Camping World carries it:
>
> http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/product/abs-plastic-city-water-entry/1458
>
> Solved my problem a couple of years ago (wet hallway when connected to city water). I'd check with the Jims first, but I don't think they carry it.
> --
> Nick Chapekis
> Ypsilanti, MI
> 78 Kingsley
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage [message #170498 is a reply to message #170485] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 07:05 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Hmmm...OK. Glad you're happy.
Personally, during the 34 years I've had motorhomes, and 30 years before
that with other RV's, I've never done a gravity fill nor been reluctant to
use city water. If my internal plumbing won't withstand whatever the
faucet supplies, I need to upgrade. Maybe living in the "behind-the-times"
SE USA I've been lucky with water quality.
Sure hope my luck holds, 'cause I sure like just turning a valve to fill
the fresh water tank. Admittedly, I do have to watch to be sure and turn
the valve off when the tank's full -- unlike the last SOB, where I
installed an automatic cutoff. Maybe when the Cad's running again, I'll do
the some to the X-Birch. :-)
Ken H.
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 1:08 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
> YOU BET
> 1 last time I went to Palm Desert rally, 3 GMCs flooded, ( they were hooked
> up to endless fresh water)
>
> 2 when the water tank is empty, it is time to dump
>
> 3 the black tank never runs over, it is Macerator dumped
>
> 4 I fill the fresh water from known , good, water ,
>
> 5 simple and full proof
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage [message #170504 is a reply to message #170498] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 08:11 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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think you missed my point...
I think we have the best Muni-water in the world.
My point is:
1 when you hook to city water, you are attached to the largest dam (water
source) in the world.
2 any leak (anomaly) in the system will fill your coach with water (no
limit, no sound)
3 our coaches are full of old plumbing and plastic items which make this
likely (at any time)
4 our coaches are sized so that the fresh water matches the black tanks,
and we dump with a macerator
5 we do not need, or support, external water, we are a "closed" system
6 external pressure, volume, temperature, contamination, are risks, not a
convenience.
So the 3 GMCs that I saw flood (plus mine), at one rally, were old hands, I
just found the problem and a way to limit my risk
JWID
gene
> Personally, during the 34 years I've had motorhomes, and 30 years before
> that with other RV's, I've never done a gravity fill nor been reluctant to
> use city water.
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage [message #170511 is a reply to message #170498] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 09:03 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Mine bypasses the internal tank completely when I have city water hooked to it.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage
Hmmm...OK. Glad you're happy.
Personally, during the 34 years I've had motorhomes, and 30 years before
that with other RV's, I've never done a gravity fill nor been reluctant to
use city water. If my internal plumbing won't withstand whatever the
faucet supplies, I need to upgrade. Maybe living in the "behind-the-times"
SE USA I've been lucky with water quality.
Sure hope my luck holds, 'cause I sure like just turning a valve to fill
the fresh water tank. Admittedly, I do have to watch to be sure and turn
the valve off when the tank's full -- unlike the last SOB, where I
installed an automatic cutoff. Maybe when the Cad's running again, I'll do
the some to the X-Birch. :-)
Ken H.
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 1:08 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
> YOU BET
> 1 last time I went to Palm Desert rally, 3 GMCs flooded, ( they were hooked
> up to endless fresh water)
>
> 2 when the water tank is empty, it is time to dump
>
> 3 the black tank never runs over, it is Macerator dumped
>
> 4 I fill the fresh water from known , good, water ,
>
> 5 simple and full proof
>
>
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage [message #170512 is a reply to message #170511] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 09:06 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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but the pipes are where the leak comes from
and
the black tank can over-flow...
and
why do you need city water ?
gene
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> Mine bypasses the internal tank completely when I have city water hooked
> to it.
>
> --johnny
> '76 23' transmode norris
> '76 palm beach
>
>
> From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage
>
> Hmmm...OK. Glad you're happy.
>
> Personally, during the 34 years I've had motorhomes, and 30 years before
> that with other RV's, I've never done a gravity fill nor been reluctant to
> use city water. If my internal plumbing won't withstand whatever the
> faucet supplies, I need to upgrade. Maybe living in the "behind-the-times"
> SE USA I've been lucky with water quality.
>
> Sure hope my luck holds, 'cause I sure like just turning a valve to fill
> the fresh water tank. Admittedly, I do have to watch to be sure and turn
> the valve off when the tank's full -- unlike the last SOB, where I
> installed an automatic cutoff. Maybe when the Cad's running again, I'll do
> the some to the X-Birch. :-)
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 1:08 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
>
> > YOU BET
> > 1 last time I went to Palm Desert rally, 3 GMCs flooded, ( they were
> hooked
> > up to endless fresh water)
> >
> > 2 when the water tank is empty, it is time to dump
> >
> > 3 the black tank never runs over, it is Macerator dumped
> >
> > 4 I fill the fresh water from known , good, water ,
> >
> > 5 simple and full proof
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage [message #170515 is a reply to message #170498] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 09:35 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
I reckon both you and Ken have valid points. When I was at the GMCMI Harrington Convention we woke up to a sopping wet carpet. It
turned out that the copper tube that fed the shower cold water had split before I bought Double Trouble. It was easy to fix, I just
dinged the cracked area in a bit and filled it with solder and put the line back in.
The other thing I've discovered is that if all the taps are turned off and you hear the water pump cycling, you got a leak
somewhere!
Having said that I also installed a valve inside the coach that I can turn the city water off easily, here's a picture of the valve:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p36569-iota-auto-transfer-pan.html
It's the one with the yellow knob. When we leave the coach during the day or when we go to bed at night the valve gets turned off.
There is an accumulator in the system and handles a few trips to the loo during the night.
The red handled one supplies water to the black tank flushing wand. Yes Gene I know you reckon that's a waste of time. One more
thing from the yellow valve the pipe goes to an OEM Avion water pressure regulator set at 40 psi.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2012 10:06 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage
Hmmm...OK. Glad you're happy.
Personally, during the 34 years I've had motorhomes, and 30 years before
that with other RV's, I've never done a gravity fill nor been reluctant to
use city water. If my internal plumbing won't withstand whatever the
faucet supplies, I need to upgrade. Maybe living in the "behind-the-times"
SE USA I've been lucky with water quality.
Sure hope my luck holds, 'cause I sure like just turning a valve to fill
the fresh water tank. Admittedly, I do have to watch to be sure and turn
the valve off when the tank's full -- unlike the last SOB, where I
installed an automatic cutoff. Maybe when the Cad's running again, I'll do
the some to the X-Birch. :-)
Ken H.
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 1:08 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
> YOU BET
> 1 last time I went to Palm Desert rally, 3 GMCs flooded, ( they were hooked
> up to endless fresh water)
>
> 2 when the water tank is empty, it is time to dump
>
> 3 the black tank never runs over, it is Macerator dumped
>
> 4 I fill the fresh water from known , good, water ,
>
> 5 simple and full proof
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage [message #170519 is a reply to message #170512] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 10:48 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Mr ERFisher wrote on Tue, 22 May 2012 10:06 |
but the pipes are where the leak comes from and the black tank can over-flow...
and why do you need city water ?
gene
|
Gene,
If I am going someplace that has water at the site, I will only load ~10 gallons (83.4#) to travel for a day instead of hauling the extra 240# of water there or home again if we fill at the site. I know it has to cost something to drag the extra weight, and I can afford to save all the gas money I can these days. Dewatering the potable tank for the trip home would be a big issue at the site.
If we have to run the pump (old loud PAR) for midnight toilet flush, it is annoying. We use the old pump as a drip/leak detector and I don't want a quiet pump. I have been on too many passages where someone left a tap unsecure and so pumped all or a large portion of the fresh water overboard. This is not as critical in a coach, but old habits and some paranoia will live on.
In 6 years, the only time we have had a black tank back up was just this year at Shawnee. And that was because Mary cooked four dinners in quick succession (for her presentation) and I took a shower at the same time.
I know people that bring two gallon jugs with all the fresh water that they expect to drink or use of a weekend. We make coffee and care our home bottles lots of places and Mary cooks a lot. We tried and killed the first jug before Saturday afternoon and I hadn't even replaced the ice yet.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage [message #170529 is a reply to message #170515] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 11:51 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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[quote title=Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 22 May 2012 07:35]G'day,
I reckon both you and Ken have valid points. When I was at the GMCMI Harrington Convention we woke up to a sopping wet carpet. It
turned out that the copper tube that fed the shower cold water had split before I bought Double Trouble. It was easy to fix, I just
dinged the cracked area in a bit and filled it with solder and put the line back in.
The other thing I've discovered is that if all the taps are turned off and you hear the water pump cycling, you got a leak
somewhere!
Having said that I also installed a valve inside the coach that I can turn the city water off easily, here's a picture of the valve:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p36569-iota-auto-transfer-pan.html
It's the one with the yellow knob. When we leave the coach during the day or when we go to bed at night the valve gets turned off.
There is an accumulator in the system and handles a few trips to the loo during the night.
The red handled one supplies water to the black tank flushing wand. Yes Gene I know you reckon that's a waste of time. One more
thing from the yellow valve the pipe goes to an OEM Avion water pressure regulator set at 40 psi.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2012 10:06 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage
Hmmm...OK. Glad you're happy.
Personally, during the 34 years I've had motorhomes, and 30 years before
that with other RV's, I've never done a gravity fill nor been reluctant to
use city water. If my internal plumbing won't withstand whatever the
faucet supplies, I need to upgrade. Maybe living in the "behind-the-times"
SE USA I've been lucky with water quality.
Sure hope my luck holds, 'cause I sure like just turning a valve to fill
the fresh water tank. Admittedly, I do have to watch to be sure and turn
the valve off when the tank's full -- unlike the last SOB, where I
installed an automatic cutoff. Maybe when the Cad's running again, I'll do
the some to the X-Birch. 
Ken H.
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 1:08 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
> YOU BET
> 1 last time I went to Palm Desert rally, 3 GMCs flooded, ( they were hooked
> up to endless fresh water)
>
> 2 when the water tank is empty, it is time to dump
>
> 3 the black tank never runs over, it is Macerator dumped
>
> 4 I fill the fresh water from known , good, water ,
>
> 5 simple and full proof
>
That would work most of the time but not everywhere. We were in 1 location for 2 months Blythe California. The water there is terrible even the dog got sick on it. I don't want that water in my tank ,we used the campground water for showers ,dish washing etc. We used bottled water for coffee,tea,drinking and the dogs. If I had to fill the tank with bottled water it would cost too much. I always use a pressure regulator at the hose bib and an external filter when it is needed.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage [message #170543 is a reply to message #170512] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 13:43 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Well, the inlet is under my bed - I can hear it if water is passing through it.
Â
Depends whether the black tank is being drained
Â
I need it to wash the dog on occasion, flush the toilet, and cook. And while I'd rather run it off N Ga wellwater, I'll fly on whatever is available at the site.
Realize, I show a coated dog out of the coach. I don't bathe him in it unless I have a sewer connection, that blackwater tank won't hold much beyond one bath, if that. My normal is like Purina Farms last month: Pull up, hook the water hose, swere hose, and electric cord, pull the blackwater gate valve, and play dog show. If there's no swere hookup I have to shampoo the boy - if he needs it - at the show bath facilities. I rather not.
Â
Now, my idea of 'camping' means the TV is smaller than 35" and I hafta turn the airconditioner on manually.
Â
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage
but the pipes are where the leak comes from
and
the black tank can over-flow...
and
why do you need city water ?
gene
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> Mine bypasses the internal tank completely when I have city water hooked
> to it.
>
> --johnny
> '76 23' transmode norris
> '76 palm beach
>
>
> From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Maiden Voyage
>
> Hmmm...OK. Glad you're happy.
>
> Personally, during the 34 years I've had motorhomes, and 30 years before
> that with other RV's, I've never done a gravity fill nor been reluctant to
> use city water. If my internal plumbing won't withstand whatever the
> faucet supplies, I need to upgrade. Maybe living in the "behind-the-times"
> SE USA I've been lucky with water quality.
>
> Sure hope my luck holds, 'cause I sure like just turning a valve to fill
> the fresh water tank. Admittedly, I do have to watch to be sure and turn
> the valve off when the tank's full -- unlike the last SOB, where I
> installed an automatic cutoff. Maybe when the Cad's running again, I'll do
> the some to the X-Birch. :-)
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 1:08 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
>
> > YOU BET
> > 1 last time I went to Palm Desert rally, 3 GMCs flooded, ( they were
> hooked
> > up to endless fresh water)
> >
> > 2Â when the water tank is empty, it is time to dump
> >
> > 3 the black tank never runs over, it is Macerator dumped
> >
> > 4 I fill the fresh water from known , good, water ,
> >
> > 5 simple and full proof
> >
> >
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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