Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Steering Gear Box
| Steering Gear Box [message #169869] |
Wed, 16 May 2012 12:37  |
Jon payne
Messages: 495
Registered: May 2008
Karma: 1
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Hi all,
One of my projects to get done before our big trip out east with my family this June is to tighten up the steering. Last October at the Goshen Rally I saw a nice presentation by Dave Lenzi regarding the proper way to (for the lack of a better word) re-index the steering gear box and tighten. Does anyone have or can direct me where I can get this procedure?
Thanks,
Jon
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN
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| Re: Steering Gear Box [message #169887 is a reply to message #169869] |
Wed, 16 May 2012 16:12  |
78 Barbi
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2004
Location: Tiverton, Ontario , Canad...
Karma: -1
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Jon Payne wrote: proper way to (for the lack of a better word) re-index the steering gear box and tighten.
Hi Jon,
Well Jon you're probably far from being alone in your delima, Rob Mueller and Chuck Boyd were kind enough to check out my steering linkages at Bean Station and found similar play in the input shaft of my steering box.
I removed the box this weekend and proceeded to set it up with assistance from the GMC MH manual, Don Werth's write up on the Eastern States tech site and some written hints from Lenzi.
I found it extremely hard to eyeball parallism between the flat spot on the input shaft and the adjuster plate, so I clamped some steel plates on the box for reference purposes, seemed to make the job easier.
No matter what anyone says, it would be nothing short of a miracle to attempt to find the "High point" without removing the box from the coach. You will do more harm than good if you attempt to adjust the "High point screw" whilst the box is on the coach. Not to be dramatic or a smart a$$ , but your chance of success would be about the same as firing a rifle at a flock of Canada geese on a moonless night and expecting to get one.
Finding the high point is relatively easy but maintaining it whilst reinstalling the box is difficult. Check the photos I recently uploaded to see if the might be of help. I have Dave's dissertation on the steering box , BUT I've mislayed it somewhere safe. I'll try to find it and email it to you.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=40150&title=steering-001&cat=33
Cheers......Albert
78 Barbi
The 23 foot Birchaven
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Box [message #169901 is a reply to message #169887] |
Wed, 16 May 2012 18:50 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Albert,
Thanks for the "anti-rotation tab for installation" hint! It's awfully
hard to maintain the alignment without something like that.
Ken H.
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Albert&Sheila Branscombe wrote:
>
> ...Finding the high point is relatively easy but maintaining it whilst
> reinstalling the box is difficult. Check the photos I recently uploaded to
> see if the might be of help. I have
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Box [message #179679 is a reply to message #170157] |
Thu, 09 August 2012 12:33 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Fri, 18 May 2012 21:26 |
The procedure to adjust the steering box can be found in Maintenance Manual X-7525 / Page 9-38 / PITMANS SHAFT "OVER CENTER" SECTOR
ADJUSTMENT.
The bad news is that you will need a beam type torque wrench capable of reading inch pounds. Here's what John Sharpe and I bought
from McMaster Carr to do the job:
Torque wrench
Ball Grip
1/4" drive
0 to 60 in. lbs.
P/N 7181A21
$64.60
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I was chasing down an annoying amount of play in my steering (at the wheel), and chased it down to the steering box. You can wiggle the steering wheel back and forth by close to an inch without a corresponding movement of the output shaft. I've checked everything else in the steering system, and there doesn't appear to be significant play anywhere else - that is, once the output shaft of the steering box starts to move, the front wheels follow immediately.
I dealt with the same thing on my high-mileage Jeep. There were two schools of thought on the fix - one was to take the box out and fiddle with it (much like the suggested process detailed in the X-7525 manual), and another where you just "tighten up the box" on the vehicle, aiming to tighten up the over-center adjusting screw a little (1/4 turn) at a time and checking play in the center vs. any signs of binding at the steering extremes.
Does anyone here think that I'll create any horrible problems adjusting my over-center preload this way, since all I'm trying to do is to move it only far enough to JUST eliminate the slop in the steering.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Box [message #179709 is a reply to message #179679] |
Thu, 09 August 2012 15:36 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Sir: not my advise or consent, but I do know a few GMCers that adjust their steering box on the road..
| habbyguy wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 13:33 |
| Robert Mueller wrote on Fri, 18 May 2012 21:26 |
The procedure to adjust the steering box can be found in Maintenance Manual X-7525 / Page 9-38 / PITMANS SHAFT "OVER CENTER" SECTOR
ADJUSTMENT.
The bad news is that you will need a beam type torque wrench capable of reading inch pounds. Here's what John Sharpe and I bought
from McMaster Carr to do the job:
Torque wrench
Ball Grip
1/4" drive
0 to 60 in. lbs.
P/N 7181A21
$64.60
|
I was chasing down an annoying amount of play in my steering (at the wheel), and chased it down to the steering box. You can wiggle the steering wheel back and forth by close to an inch without a corresponding movement of the output shaft. I've checked everything else in the steering system, and there doesn't appear to be significant play anywhere else - that is, once the output shaft of the steering box starts to move, the front wheels follow immediately.
I dealt with the same thing on my high-mileage Jeep. There were two schools of thought on the fix - one was to take the box out and fiddle with it (much like the suggested process detailed in the X-7525 manual), and another where you just "tighten up the box" on the vehicle, aiming to tighten up the over-center adjusting screw a little (1/4 turn) at a time and checking play in the center vs. any signs of binding at the steering extremes.
Does anyone here think that I'll create any horrible problems adjusting my over-center preload this way, since all I'm trying to do is to move it only far enough to JUST eliminate the slop in the steering.
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Box [message #179711 is a reply to message #179709] |
Thu, 09 August 2012 16:37 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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| C Boyd wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 13:36 |
Sir: not my advise or consent, but I do know a few GMCers that adjust their steering box on the road..
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Thanks for the input. The same issues / opinions seemed to apply to the Jeep steering box as well. The "right way" to do it (which I "get") took a lot of time and patience, but would let you know what you're dealing with. The "down and dirty" way to do it seemed to work 90% of the time, though - especially if you weren't careful) - it could cause serious wear in the steering box, requiring a new one. The way I figure it, a new box isn't a whole lot of money, and if a simple adjustment doesn't do it, I probably need a new box anyway.
The biggest question I have about the GMC steering box is "how much totally free play is normal"? I'd estimate that I can move my wheel about 1.5 - 2.0" total left/right without moving the output bell crank. I've gotten the impression that 1" might be normal (at least from a couple postings on the subject). What's the consensus for just how tight I should be trying to get my steering before I crank down the lock nut?
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Steering Gear Box [message #179716 is a reply to message #179711] |
Thu, 09 August 2012 17:33 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Mark,
When you say you've got steering wheel movement before "moving the output
bell crank", I presume you're referring to the pitman arm -- where the drag
link attaches to the rest of the steering mechanism. If that's where
you're checking play, you need to back up at several steps: the steering
box (recognizing that's where you're concentrating); the CV joint clamped
spline at the top of the steering box; the blue splined shaft; the top CV
joint; its splined clamp onto the steering column; and, to my recent
surprise, the nylon swivel ball at the pivot point in the steering column.
ALL of those points are potential wear/looseness points and can contribute
a lot of steering wheel rim play. I was very surprised to take out
1/2"-3/4" of play just by replacing the nylon pivot ball with a less worn,
not even new, one. I now have virtually no free play.
Personally, I wouldn't consider adjusting the steering box in-place. It's
difficult, even on the work bench, with the input shaft accessible for the
necessary alignment reference, to locate the "high spot". If you attempt
the adjustment on the coach and happen to NOT be on the high spot when you
"take a tiny bit of play out", you stand a good chance of doing irreparable
damage when that "tiny bit" causes binding on the high spot. If you
haven't read this, you should:
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Wirth_GMCMH_Steering_Box.pdf
If you don't need a "new" box, why buy one, especially considering that
you'll have to be sure to get one with the correct internal stops for the
GMC. The in-lb torque wrenches aren't very expensive.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=in-lb+torque+wrench&hl=en&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&ion=1&biw=1163& bih=648&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5683339015118285722&sa=X&ei=jTokUOboG4SS9QTGl4GwBg&ved=0CHsQ8wIwAA
or
http://goo.gl/g9rMq
JMHO,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Mark wrote:
>
>
> C Boyd wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 13:36
> > Sir: not my advise or consent, but I do know a few GMCers that adjust
> their steering box on the road..
>
> Thanks for the input. The same issues / opinions seemed to apply to the
> Jeep steering box as well. The "right way" to do it (which I "get") took a
> lot of time and patience, but would let you know what you're dealing with.
> The "down and dirty" way to do it seemed to work 90% of the time, though -
> especially if you weren't careful) - it could cause serious wear in the
> steering box, requiring a new one. The way I figure it, a new box isn't a
> whole lot of money, and if a simple adjustment doesn't do it, I probably
> need a new box anyway.
>
> The biggest question I have about the GMC steering box is "how much
> totally free play is normal"? I'd estimate that I can move my wheel about
> 1.5 - 2.0" total left/right without moving the output bell crank. I've
> gotten the impression that 1" might be normal (at least from a couple
> postings on the subject). What's the consensus for just how tight I should
> be trying to get my steering before I crank down the lock nut?
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Steering Gear Box [message #179719 is a reply to message #169869] |
Thu, 09 August 2012 18:15 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Ken, Thanks. I do understand the risks I face, but (to me, at least...) it comes down to a question about how likely I am to really mess something up. As I said before, all the same issues / risks applied to my Jeep steering box as well, yet adjusting it and removing all the play took just 30 minutes or so (and most of that because I had to pull the electric fan out to get to the adjustment). Another way to look at it - if the "high spot" is considerably different than the "straight ahead position", it really doesn't matter... it would mean that correctly adjusting to the high spot would still leave unacceptable play in the box when driving straight ahead, so I'll need a new steering box anyway. If the two (high spot and straight ahead position) are very close, then the end result (I'm taking a SWAG here) should be about the same with the adjustment done in or out of the coach. But again, ONLY if I take it very slowly, and only adjust the box until my "straight ahead position" is snug.
As to my diagnostics... I had a buddy (Dave, the happy wannabee) wiggle my steering wheel (engine on) back and forth hard enough to turn the upper and lower shafts (i.e. the "input" to the steering box), but not hard enough to move the pitman arm. This allowed me to check for any play anywhere up to and including the steering box. In this case, I could detect no play anywhere "north" of the steering box, but could see several degrees of rotation of the input shaft of the steering box, but no movement at all of the pitman arm. So I can only assume that the play is in the steering box (though I'm more than open to suggestions to the contrary, or to alternative diagnostic methods).
If my steering box isn't "aligned" (the "high spot" doesn't correspond to straight ahead), but is otherwise OK, shouldn't I be able to find a position somewhere near straight ahead where the play goes away? Or to put it another way, would the steering wheel alignment that produces the least "wiggle" correspond to the "high spot" in the steering box?
Just trying to maintain my "laziest troubleshooter on earth status"... 
Oh, I forgot to mention - I already have that inch-pound torque wrench (needed it to set the pinion bearing crush washer preload on my Jeep's rear diff - I'm not opposed to doing it right when there's no easy option). 
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
[Updated on: Thu, 09 August 2012 18:16] Report message to a moderator |
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