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| Rally presentations on the web [message #169743] |
Tue, 15 May 2012 11:08  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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I did not want to continue the other thread that has drifted this way, but I believe this needs to be made very clear.
Apart from copyright or other infringement issues, there are a few much larger issues with putting the rally tech sessions on the web. One is that virtually none of the presenters are professional. This does not mean that the session actually lack for anything, but the fact is that many are no more than a stream of pictures with impromptu narration by the presenter sometimes interspersed with casual remarks or other (right Rob?) from the audience.
The Onan show at Shawnee was about as good as it could be, but it could not have been recorded by a single camera in one take - It Just Could Not Happen....
Now, the "Dave Lenzi does another Hub" possibly could have been recorded. That was great, and for the first time, more than the first row got to see what he was doing and listen to why he does it. It would still have benefited from some editing before it went public. That editing has to be expected to take twice as long as the recording time and probably three or four times the running time of the finished product and (more importantly) someone has to do it.
That all brings us to another really important part of this issue. That is server space. A video show takes up a whole lot of storage. That storage is not free. Streaming it costs bandwidth - also not free.
Maybe someday, the organization will manage to get many of the tech sessions preserved and available. I, too, think it would be a good thing, but, as of this writing, there simply is not the capability within the organizations involved to do this.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Rally presentations on the web [message #169751 is a reply to message #169743] |
Tue, 15 May 2012 11:50  |
armandminnie
Messages: 864
Registered: May 2009
Location: Marana, AZ
Karma: 2
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I am thinking that since the missions of our clubs is generally stated as "preserving and promoting the GMC Motorhome" then we should consider how to solve this problem since that is what rallies and tech sessions are for. The three clubs that I belong to (GMCMI, GMCWS, and GMCSJ) all have relatively sizable bank accounts. Maybe we should consider paying for technical services at rallies that would help meet this need and provide the information to anyone who wants it since that is how we will persuade them to buy a GMC.
Armand Minnie
Marana, AZ
'76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
visit my gmc blog
click here to visit gmcws.org
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| Re: Rally presentations on the web [message #169752 is a reply to message #169743] |
Tue, 15 May 2012 11:53 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Ralph Luby use to tape all of the tech session at the GMCMI rallies. After the video taping no one, except maybe Ralph, ever saw them again. He probably has years of video tapes stored in his basement.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rally presentations on the web [message #169757 is a reply to message #169752] |
Tue, 15 May 2012 12:27 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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On May 15, 2012, at 10:53 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
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> Ralph Luby use to tape all of the tech session at the GMCMI rallies. After the video taping no one, except maybe Ralph, ever saw them again. He probably has years of video tapes stored in his basement.
No, he does not. He passed them on to me in 2004 but I looked at them and they were very, very bad tapings done with a handheld VCR camera. The person using the camera moved it all over and it was impossible to see what was being taped. There was virtually no sound that was hearable. Ralph had told me that the reason that he had them taped was that he wanted a record of what was presented just in case someone used the information by modiyfing their motorhome and then something went wrong and they tried to su the club.
I think that I passed some of these on to Billy Massey but believe me, if there was any good information in the tapes we would have kept them. As far as I know, all the bad tapes were discarded.
Emery Stora
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rally presentations on the web [message #169758 is a reply to message #169757] |
Tue, 15 May 2012 12:32 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| emerystora wrote on Tue, 15 May 2012 12:27 |
On May 15, 2012, at 10:53 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
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> Ralph Luby use to tape all of the tech session at the GMCMI rallies. After the video taping no one, except maybe Ralph, ever saw them again. He probably has years of video tapes stored in his basement.
No, he does not. He passed them on to me in 2004 but I looked at them and they were very, very bad tapings done with a handheld VCR camera. The person using the camera moved it all over and it was impossible to see what was being taped. There was virtually no sound that was hearable. Ralph had told me that the reason that he had them taped was that he wanted a record of what was presented just in case someone used the information by modiyfing their motorhome and then something went wrong and they tried to su the club.
I think that I passed some of these on to Billy Massey but believe me, if there was any good information in the tapes we would have kept them. As far as I know, all the bad tapes were discarded.
Emery Stora
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You backed up my point that it was mostly a wasted effort.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rally presentations on the web [message #169760 is a reply to message #169743] |
Tue, 15 May 2012 13:09 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Since I'm a GMCMI VP (until Amana), and have been a member of the club for
almost 14 years, I probably should comment on the posting of technical
materials question.
As several have mentioned, there are a number of reasons for the lack of
postings:
1. The absence of the Parts Interchange List is based on a decision by
the Board of Directors. It was not a unanimous decision but one that was
undoubtedly in the best interests of the organization. Think back -- when
anyone mentions the benefits of GMCMI membership, what is usually the first
item mentioned? Probably that list. I don't know how many members join
ONLY for that list, but it's probably a significant percentage, so it DOES
have value. Posting it for everyone to access for free would destroy that
value, which now belongs to all MEMBERS. Arguments such as "put it in a
members-only area" are flawed because it takes only one "generous" member
to leak the digital version to the whole world. The formal, permanent,
organized support of GMCMI is what enables the list to exist. Several
individuals have attempted to maintain similar, perhaps even superior,
lists on-line. To the best of my knowledge, not one of them still exists.
Even Gene, despite his superb, untiring, continuous efforts to maintain
his site can't sustain quality comparable to the PIL.
2. Some presenters, including one of our best qualified, prepared, and
prominent, do NOT want their material posted because they don't want the
negative feedback, legal liability, nor general hassle that can result.
That particular individual is generous with person-to-person distribution
-- but on condition of not posting to the internet. Surely no one would
suggest violating those wishes? Doing so would be a sure way to forfeit
any future contributions by them. Even without a formal copyright, each
author has the right to determine the use of his material.
3. Some presenters simply do not want to prepare the formal material
necessary for posting. In the early days of GMCES, in an effort to ensure
that a reputation for quality presentations was established, some of us
devoted a lot of effort to preparing formal guidelines for presentation
material. To aid those unwilling or unable to meet the criteria in those
guidelines, we offered to assign a member of the technical committee to
assist the presenter. Almost from the very beginning, we had to relax
those "rules" in order to get volunteers. While a number of very good
presentations were prepared under them, as time went by, it was necessary
to be less and less stringent in enforcement. I'm not sure anyone attempts
to follow them any longer. If there's no one willing to prepare material
(with or without guidance), Billy can't post it to the web site, period.
I, too, would like for all information to be well prepared, presented, and
published, and for free. But the facts of life are that it's simply not
feasible. We, as a society at large are extremely fortunate to have the
internet and that so many people and organizations are willing and able to
post so much great material. But we cannot force anyone to participate who
does not voluntarily do so; that's even better.
Ken H.
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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