Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Inside leak gutters/drains
| Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167553] |
Wed, 25 April 2012 15:27  |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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I have the cockpit side panels out for some fuel and wiring work. I'm going to insulate before I replace them. I want to put in a drain system to shortstop any window leaks. My floor did not need the repairs that one of the Kens or Rick Denny did so the drain system installed by that person during that repair will not apply. What I am thinking of doing is gluing some form of channel onto the side wall that can have a drain tube connected to it to drain out the bottom of the coach.
What I am looking for is suggestions on what do look for to use as the drain channel. I haven't wandered around the big box stores or local hardware store yet to look for suitable materials so I'm looking for suggestions so I don't miss any possible product. I plan on using 3M 5200 or similar to glue the channel to the side channel. I'll use a bit of SS Choreboy as a filter to keep the drain tube from clogging.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167566 is a reply to message #167559] |
Wed, 25 April 2012 19:56  |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 25 April 2012 17:31 |
Steve,
I'd like to expand this question a bit.
When I attended the Santa Rosa Convention there was a coach that had been
TOTALLY rebuilt by a Canadian couple. They gutted the inside COMPLETELY and
before they relined the interior they sprayed the entire interior walls with
the blue spray foam insulation.
I think that was a brilliant idea on two counts:
1) it would provide good insulation
2) it would provide a secondary seal for leaks from the inside
You reckon that this would seal up any window leaks too?
Regards,
Rob M.
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I'm not sure this would be a good idea. I'd be concerned the window would still leak but the water would get trapped where it could cause corrosion problems or stagnate and stink. I'm going to run on the assumption that it is impossible, on a long term basis, to leakproof a GMC (and probably most all SOBs). Given my belief that it WILL leak, I'm going to make sure the water gets out without problems.
Whatever I do I will do the photosite thing.
On a side note, after all too long a time of taking parts off the GMC, today I put the first part back on. (well not the first as I redid the rear suspension and brakes but that was so long ago I hardly remember it.)
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167572 is a reply to message #167566] |
Wed, 25 April 2012 20:22 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Steve,
Good point regarding water getting trapped, however, if my memory serves me
well they removed all the OEM insulation and repainted the interior walls
then sprayed on the insulation.
Congratulations on "starting" the reassembly process!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Southworth
I'm not sure this would be a good idea. I'd be concerned the window would
still leak but the water would get trapped where it could cause corrosion
problems or stagnate and stink. I'm going to run on the assumption that it
is impossible, on a long term basis, to leakproof a GMC (and probably most
all SOBs). Given my belief that it WILL leak, I'm going to make sure the
water gets out without problems.
Whatever I do I will do the photosite thing.
On a side note, after all too long a time of taking parts off the GMC, today
I put the first part back on. (well not the first as I redid the rear
suspension and brakes but that was so long ago I hardly remember it.)
--
Steve
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167613 is a reply to message #167572] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 08:05 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
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On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Good point regarding water getting trapped, however, if my memory serves me
> well they removed all the OEM insulation and repainted the interior walls
> then sprayed on the insulation.
>
I'm with Steve in questioning this. My experience is that foam will
separate from its substrate in the presence of persistent moisture, or rot
and open up. If I were doing something similar, I'd use butyl sheets, like
the stuff used for sound insulation, but those can still bubble up and trap
moisture.
I still have persistent leaks along the right side of the coach. In a heavy
rain, such as we received last weekend, I get water dripping at the fore
and aft ends of the roof channel.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/leak-management/p16479.html
Looking at this picture, it is apparent to me that any leaks in the roof
will run down the roof to the roofline extrusion, where it will collect. If
it is not filled with foam (which this one certainly was not), then it will
run along the channel until it gets to a drain point. I've added drains to
my channels, but water is not getting into them and some is still leaking
into the coach. Or, the water coming into the coach is somewhere else.
It's also possible that someone drive screws too deeply into that extrusion
to hold on the drip rail, and punched through to the opening below the roof
channel. That moisture would leak down the wall, coming out wherever the
spray foam allowed it to.
My awning mountings are also suspect.
But I agree that eliminating leaks completely is not sustainable, so I
agree with the strategy of minimizing or eliminating the damage cause by
inevitable water intrusion. Some of that intrusion might be internally
sourced (a leaky water pipe, for example, or condensation) and still need a
means of escape.
Rick "who needs to pull that starboard drip rail and awning again" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167615 is a reply to message #167613] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 08:31 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Rick,
Would you please provide some more details regarding your experience of foam
separating from its substrate.
If you can make it to Amana remind me to tell you about my fight to fix
water leaks in Double Trouble.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Denney
I'm with Steve in questioning this. My experience is that foam will
separate from its substrate in the presence of persistent moisture, or rot
and open up. If I were doing something similar, I'd use butyl sheets, like
the stuff used for sound insulation, but those can still bubble up and trap
moisture.
I still have persistent leaks along the right side of the coach. In a heavy
rain, such as we received last weekend, I get water dripping at the fore
and aft ends of the roof channel.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/leak-management/p16479.html
Looking at this picture, it is apparent to me that any leaks in the roof
will run down the roof to the roofline extrusion, where it will collect. If
it is not filled with foam (which this one certainly was not), then it will
run along the channel until it gets to a drain point. I've added drains to
my channels, but water is not getting into them and some is still leaking
into the coach. Or, the water coming into the coach is somewhere else.
It's also possible that someone drive screws too deeply into that extrusion
to hold on the drip rail, and punched through to the opening below the roof
channel. That moisture would leak down the wall, coming out wherever the
spray foam allowed it to.
My awning mountings are also suspect.
But I agree that eliminating leaks completely is not sustainable, so I
agree with the strategy of minimizing or eliminating the damage cause by
inevitable water intrusion. Some of that intrusion might be internally
sourced (a leaky water pipe, for example, or condensation) and still need a
means of escape.
Rick "who needs to pull that starboard drip rail and awning again" Denney
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167616 is a reply to message #167615] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 09:00 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> Would you please provide some more details regarding your experience of foam
> separating from its substrate.
I had a couple of places where water collected in the waistline
extrusion, including the one pictured here:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/leak-management/p16580.html
In both cases, the water ate away the foam and its connection to the
aluminum was lost. Mostly, it rotted and came out as a soaked, crumbly
mess.
Part of what minimizes water damage is the ability for wet things to
dry. When you use treatments that include air (such as foam) but block
any change of air, the water gets trapped with unfortunate results.
There is no replacement for a properly gasketed interface, and I've
never been happy with closed-cell-foam gaskets for preventing water
penetration in the long run. I use foam weatherstripping, but these
work better for air sealing than water sealing. For gasketing surfaces
where leaks often occur, I try to mininmize the leak from the outside
using polyurethane caulk, but it's better to prevent the leak by
replacing the gasket with something that doesn't have air in it, like
butyl rubber.
Spray foam is good for a lot of things (particularly insulating
panels), but sealing an external joint from the inside isn't one of
them. When I see Mike Holmes advocating it on his "Holmes Inspection"
show, I cringe.
Rick "noting that cars are made with butyl, cemented rubber, or solid
rubber weatherstripping on jointed connections, but even more are
designed to drain intruding water rather than eliminate it" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167644 is a reply to message #167616] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 18:47 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Rick,
I agree with what you've noted and had to laugh as Mike's show appears here
in Australia and that's where I got the idea to seal the coach from the
inside. Having said that I wonder if the BLUE foam that is being used now a
days is the same chemical composition as the insulating foam that GMC used.
I was thinking that if you took the surface back to bare metal, painted it
with zinc chromate primer and then sprayed the insulation in AFTER you had
mounted everything to the roof that you wanted to it would be a secondary
barrier.
The fact that these coaches flex worries me as the insulation could crack
and water could find it's way into the cracks.
The GMC that I saw at Santa Rosa had these venetian blind supports that I
thought were very clever, it was built by a Canadian couple over a period of
seven years. IIRC it was blue and had custom wheels. Does this ring a bell
with anybody?
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p32919-venetian-blind-amp
-qu.html
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Denney
I had a couple of places where water collected in the waistline
extrusion, including the one pictured here:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/leak-management/p16580.html
In both cases, the water ate away the foam and its connection to the
aluminum was lost. Mostly, it rotted and came out as a soaked, crumbly
mess.
Part of what minimizes water damage is the ability for wet things to
dry. When you use treatments that include air (such as foam) but block
any change of air, the water gets trapped with unfortunate results.
There is no replacement for a properly gasketed interface, and I've
never been happy with closed-cell-foam gaskets for preventing water
penetration in the long run. I use foam weatherstripping, but these
work better for air sealing than water sealing. For gasketing surfaces
where leaks often occur, I try to mininmize the leak from the outside
using polyurethane caulk, but it's better to prevent the leak by
replacing the gasket with something that doesn't have air in it, like
butyl rubber.
Spray foam is good for a lot of things (particularly insulating
panels), but sealing an external joint from the inside isn't one of
them. When I see Mike Holmes advocating it on his "Holmes Inspection"
show, I cringe.
Rick "noting that cars are made with butyl, cemented rubber, or solid
rubber weatherstripping on jointed connections, but even more are
designed to drain intruding water rather than eliminate it" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167658 is a reply to message #167644] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 20:29 |
shawnee
Messages: 422
Registered: February 2004
Location: NC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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[quote title=Robert Mueller wrote on Thu, 26 April 2012 19:47]Rick,
I agree with what you've noted and had to laugh as Mike's show appears here
in Australia and that's where I got the idea to seal the coach from the
inside. Having said that I wonder if the BLUE foam that is being used now a
days is the same chemical composition as the insulating foam that GMC used.
I was thinking that if you took the surface back to bare metal, painted it
with zinc chromate primer and then sprayed the insulation in AFTER you had
mounted everything to the roof that you wanted to it would be a secondary
barrier.
The fact that these coaches flex worries me as the insulation could crack
and water could find it's way into the cracks.
The GMC that I saw at Santa Rosa had these venetian blind supports that I
thought were very clever, it was built by a Canadian couple over a period of
seven years. IIRC it was blue and had custom wheels. Does this ring a bell
with anybody?
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p32919-venetian-blind-amp
-qu.html
Regards,
Rob M.
Rob,
I think this was Paul Doans coach.
Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167675 is a reply to message #167658] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 21:23 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Gene,
Thanks!
I checked the GMCMI Membership Rooster which shows that Paul & Nancy live in
Halifax, NS
Mike,
Is Gene correct?
If yes, does anyone have their email address?
Regards,
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Dotson
Rob,
I think this was Paul Doans coach.
--
Gene
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167677 is a reply to message #167553] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 21:44 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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"My awning mountings are also suspect."
Thats were I found my leak coming from. The holes where they installed the screws in for the awning allowed water to enter in. I sealed them and the leak stopped.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167679 is a reply to message #167553] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 21:45 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Oh yea the only other leaks I had come from the corner marker light sockets. Had to seal the marker lights.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167680 is a reply to message #167675] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 21:45 |
Nelson Wright
Messages: 147
Registered: May 2004
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Rob,
I'm not sure what you are asking about, but Paul Doans current coach
is sitting in my yard here in Orlando, while they are on a Cruise
ship. Their previous coach was a metallic bronze and brass color combo.
HTH,
Nelson Wright
Orlando FL
78 Royale rear bath
On Apr 26, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Gene,
>
> Thanks!
>
> I checked the GMCMI Membership Rooster which shows that Paul & Nancy
> live in
> Halifax, NS
>
> Mike,
>
> Is Gene correct?
>
> If yes, does anyone have their email address?
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Dotson
>
> Rob,
>
> I think this was Paul Doans coach.
>
> --
> Gene
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167685 is a reply to message #167680] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 22:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Nelson,
I'm trying to find the Canadian couple that had a gorgeous fully restored
GMC at the Santa Rosa GMCMI Convention. They had gutted the interior
completely and re-sprayed it with new foam insulation.
Does the coach in your yard have venetian blinds that look like this:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/500/thumbs/Venetian_Blinds.JPG
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Wright
Rob,
I'm not sure what you are asking about, but Paul Doans current coach
is sitting in my yard here in Orlando, while they are on a Cruise
ship. Their previous coach was a metallic bronze and brass color combo.
HTH,
Nelson
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167686 is a reply to message #167658] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 22:08 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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""The fact that these coaches flex worries me as the insulation could crack
and water could find it's way into the cracks.
""
I've seen coaches picked up in one corner and the whole body lifter squarely. Where did this come from?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inside leak gutters/drains [message #167688 is a reply to message #167685] |
Thu, 26 April 2012 22:11 |
Nelson Wright
Messages: 147
Registered: May 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Rob;
Their current coach is a work in process and you would have to laugh
at the window dressing, Sheets secured with clothes pins and duct
tape :^)
However I am sure that the final product will be as nice as the one
that was in the coach that you are trying to identify.
Also I am fairly certain that their previous blinds were not blue.
Nelson
On Apr 26, 2012, at 11:00 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Nelson,
>
> I'm trying to find the Canadian couple that had a gorgeous fully
> restored
> GMC at the Santa Rosa GMCMI Convention. They had gutted the interior
> completely and re-sprayed it with new foam insulation.
>
> Does the coach in your yard have venetian blinds that look like this:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/500/thumbs/Venetian_Blinds.JPG
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nelson Wright
>
> Rob,
> I'm not sure what you are asking about, but Paul Doans current coach
> is sitting in my yard here in Orlando, while they are on a Cruise
> ship. Their previous coach was a metallic bronze and brass color
> combo.
> HTH,
>
> Nelson
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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