Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Sullybuilt bags issues
| Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166498] |
Mon, 16 April 2012 11:46  |
biggreen
Messages: 347
Registered: June 2011
Location: Northeast Florida
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Just installed a set of the Sullybuilt brackets with the recommended Firestone bags. Good sturdy set-up and easy install.
Problem I'm having is there is no clearance on the inside of the bags to the wheelwells as these airsprings are of a much larger diameter than stock. One is a little tighter than the other, but both are rubbing.
My rear wheels are straight, my bogies are tight, I drove up and down the driveway, about 300 ft after putting wheels back on, and still no clearance.
Could "middle age spread" be the issue? http://gmcmotorhome.info/spread.html
The only solution I see is to modify the wheelwells to fit the airspring. Manufacturing a fiberglass inset and take advantage of the 1-2 inches behind the wells.
Anyone have a solution?
Thanks, RD 77 Palm Beach 403
[Updated on: Mon, 16 April 2012 11:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166502 is a reply to message #166498] |
Mon, 16 April 2012 13:09  |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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| Quote: |
....no clearance on the inside of the bags to the wheelwells .....Could "middle age spread" be the issue?.....
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No.Middle age spread does not cause the wheelwells to move. I have not installed the 'Sullybuilt' but suggest to check that the center of the adapters are in the center of the boggie arm mounting holes.
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sullybuilt bags [message #166505 is a reply to message #166498] |
Mon, 16 April 2012 13:44 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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says max bag diameter is 10.7 inches
http://www.bdub.net/sully/W013589294.pdf
gene
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 9:46 AM, R.D. Hart <regor5556@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Just installed a set of the Sullybuilt brackets with the recommended
> Firestone bags. Good sturdy set-up and easy install.
>
> Problem I'm having is there is no clearance on the inside of the bags to
> the wheelwells as these airsprings are of a much larger diameter than
> stock. One is a little tighter than the other, but both are rubbing.
>
> My rear wheels are straight, my bogies are tight, I drove up and down the
> driveway, about 300 ft after putting wheels back on, and still no clearance.
>
> Could "middle age spread" be the issue?
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/spread.html
>
> The only solution I see is to modify the wheelwells to fit the airspring.
> Manufacturing a fiberglass inset and take advantage of the 1-2 inches
> behind the wells.
>
> Anyone have a solution?
>
> Thanks, RD 77 Palm Beach 403
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166516 is a reply to message #166498] |
Mon, 16 April 2012 15:26 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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I posted the same problem a while back on the brackets I built and found that the fenderwells are 1" difference on mine because of the vanity on the left side makes it pushed more outboard. Could actually see the gap between the fenderwell and the body on the left side so it has a greater gap and as I was told about mine it was built in the 70's. I had to offset the bag brackets on the right side about 5/8". They are so wide I can't or haven't any problem with them cocking at an angle only the problem of both bags wanting to wrap around the air inlet end on a full deflate.
Skip
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166519 is a reply to message #166498] |
Mon, 16 April 2012 15:48 |
biggreen
Messages: 347
Registered: June 2011
Location: Northeast Florida
Karma: 1
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You could
take something shaped like a baking sheet about an inch or so deep, stainless or even plastic or fiberglass shaped like a shallow pan with a lip on it, cut out the wheelwell that size, rivet, screw or otherwise bond it on, and you have an inch or so clearance. There is an inch or 2 of space behind there.
[Updated on: Mon, 16 April 2012 15:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166548 is a reply to message #166498] |
Mon, 16 April 2012 21:08 |
SThornbg
Messages: 127
Registered: September 2011
Karma: 0
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Put my SullyBuilt system on a few days ago and my fit is similar to that reported by Mac. However, my bags may be a bit large as I have them pumped up wih the bogie bottoms approximately 8.75 to 9 inches from the ground - had to fix leaks in the air line fittings on both sides so I have left it "jacked up" on an extended leak test. (I quit with the teflon tape and went to plumber's putty to cure the leaks)
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
77 PB 455 "Tinker Toy"
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
77 exPB 455 "Tinker Toy"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166573 is a reply to message #166553] |
Tue, 17 April 2012 01:11 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Our MONO BAG System is smiler to the Sully Bag, but we have a
clearance cut on the plate.
Lower the bag all the way by emitting he air.
You'll me in for a surprise as to how the bad will roll up on the side
that dose not have the cone.
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 7:21 PM, D C *Mac* Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sully found several air leaks in the various valve plumbing
> back in the air compressor cabinet when he did my install
> at Shawnee. I haven't gotten to those or several other of
> my problems yet. My coach is also pumped up manually.
> I also have to put on the Dave Lenzi adjustable links so
> that I can set the levelling correctly.
>
> I still have to correct the problem of the missing negative
> connection from the house charger and its batteries.
>
> Then there is the issue of the leaking fresh water system
> and the non-pumping fresh water pump!
>
> Cheers!
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~~ k2gkk @ hotmail dot com ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> _______________
> *[ ]....[][ ][]\
> *--OO---[]---O-*
>
>
>
>
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> From: SThornbg@aol.com
>> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 21:08:27 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Sullybuilt bags issues
>>
>>
>>
>> Put my SullyBuilt system on a few days ago and my fit is similar to that reported by Mac. However, my bags may be a bit large as I have them pumped up wih the bogie bottoms approximately 8.75 to 9 inches from the ground - had to fix leaks in the air line fittings on both sides so I have left it "jacked up" on an extended leak test. (I quit with the teflon tape and went to plumber's putty to cure the leaks)
>>
>> Steve Thornburg
>> South Bend, IN
>> 77 PB 455 "Tinker Toy"
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166575 is a reply to message #166573] |
Tue, 17 April 2012 01:48 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Translation follows:
Our MONO BAG System is similar to the Sully Bag, but we have a clearance area cut on one the side of the plate. If you lower the bag all the way by removing the air pressure, you will be in for a surprise. The bag will roll up on the end without the cone. (I assume he is referring to the Sully bag)
End of Translation
| jimk wrote on Tue, 17 April 2012 01:11 |
Our MONO BAG System is smiler to the Sully Bag, but we have a
clearance cut on the plate.
Lower the bag all the way by emitting he air.
You'll me in for a surprise as to how the bad will roll up on the side
that dose not have the cone.
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 7:21 PM, D C *Mac* Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sully found several air leaks in the various valve plumbing
> back in the air compressor cabinet when he did my install
> at Shawnee. I haven't gotten to those or several other of
> my problems yet. My coach is also pumped up manually.
> I also have to put on the Dave Lenzi adjustable links so
> that I can set the levelling correctly.
>
> I still have to correct the problem of the missing negative
> connection from the house charger and its batteries.
>
> Then there is the issue of the leaking fresh water system
> and the non-pumping fresh water pump!
>
> Cheers!
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~~ k2gkk @ hotmail dot com ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> _______________
> *[ ]....[][ ][]\
> *--OO---[]---O-*
>
>
>
>
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> From: SThornbg@aol.com
>> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 21:08:27 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Sullybuilt bags issues
>>
>>
>>
>> Put my SullyBuilt system on a few days ago and my fit is similar to that reported by Mac. However, my bags may be a bit large as I have them pumped up wih the bogie bottoms approximately 8.75 to 9 inches from the ground - had to fix leaks in the air line fittings on both sides so I have left it "jacked up" on an extended leak test. (I quit with the teflon tape and went to plumber's putty to cure the leaks)
>>
>> Steve Thornburg
>> South Bend, IN
>> 77 PB 455 "Tinker Toy"
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166646 is a reply to message #166617] |
Tue, 17 April 2012 16:18 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I do not like the idea of having the support of the bag off centered. I'm afraid the twist might cause major problems.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166672 is a reply to message #166498] |
Tue, 17 April 2012 21:27 |
SThornbg
Messages: 127
Registered: September 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I plan to run mine as they are until I see significant marking on the wheel well surface. If that happens, I will probably try to put a piece of galvanized heating duct material in as a rub strip - replaceable as it wears......
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
77 PB 455 "Tinker Toy"
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
77 exPB 455 "Tinker Toy"
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| Re: Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166675 is a reply to message #166672] |
Tue, 17 April 2012 21:45 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| SThornbg wrote on Tue, 17 April 2012 19:27 |
I plan to run mine as they are until I see significant marking on the wheel well surface. If that happens, I will probably try to put a piece of galvanized heating duct material in as a rub strip - replaceable as it wears......
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Wouldn't the rubber bag be the part that wears?
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166683 is a reply to message #166672] |
Tue, 17 April 2012 23:45 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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I figured I should pipe up here after reading these posts. I have been out
of town for most of the past week as well as this past weekend and have not
been near the war pig to take measurements. I would like to respond to all
of the posts in this thread with no particular order and hopefully will not
ommit anyone while also offering up some of my own observations I made
while working on my coach and especially working around my rear suspension.
Raising the air bags up with the extenders has been suggested by Mickey as
a possible solution to clearance issues. This will not help as the
extenders raise the bag vertically which does not increase side clearance
and more likely will decrease it.
A relief in the side of the mounting plate will not alleviate a wheel
well clearance issue with the air spring as the width of the bag when
inflated exceeds the width of the cone plate and the plate on the fill port
side. The only time the air bag can spill over the cone plate or the fill
plate is when the bag is completely deflated. Is this an issue or a
charictaristic? If the spilover only occurs when fully deflated I would
think of it as a charictaristic as the only time the bag would be fully
deflated is while stationary trying to level on very uneven ground. The
amount of spill over can vary but in the systems I have installed I have
seen little or no spillover upon full deflation. I attribute that to
installing the bags without any twist in them from end to end. Leaving the
centered single bag mount loose on the plate as per the installation
instructions until after weight carrying inflation has been achieved will
allow the bag to orient itself without twist. When mine are fully deflated
they do not spill over the fill port end of the bag. When I fully deflated
the bags I put on Mac's rig at Shawnee they did not spill over either end
but stacked evenly in tight wrinkles between the cone and the fill port
plate. I am awaiting a link to the video of the install so I may post it.
The clearance on The War Pig varies from side to side as well. On the right
side the center of the airbag mount in the bogie arm is 5 1/2" from
the wheel well. On the left side the measurement is 5 1/8". I have about
3/8" of clearance between the plate and the wheel well on the left side.
My bogie pins and bushings are brand new.
The plates are all the same diameter and the bogie mount is centered in the
standoff which is centered in the plate.
When I installed the 1/2" body bushing kit from the COOP I centered the
body to the frame.
When I removed my bogie assemblies I noted the thickness of the camber
shims and replaced them with new in same thickness as mine were very rusted
and crumbling.
My wheel wells are fiberglass and in good condition and properly mounted
flush with the body and the floor.
My unweighted rear wheel camber varies greatly from side to side as the
right side (with the greater clearance) shows positive with a level accross
the wheel and the left side (with less clearance) is negative.
I cannot currently check weighted camber due to the coach being blocked
three feet in the air for completion of the fresh air intake to feed the
fuel injection but I do not anticipate much change to occur with loading of
the suspension for the following reasons-
The camber will not change through the suspension stroke due to design as
the spindle angle will not change as the bogie arm moves about its arc
I do not anticipate much twist in the arm when loaded with the coach
weight (maybe someone can correct me if this is innaccurate)
The frame of The War Pig is not rusted and in sound condition with no
weakened crossmembers or loose fasteners.
I don't think that operating a coach with the airbag rubbing on anything
other than itself is a good idea.
I also do not think that mounting the bag off center is the best solution
to an interference issue.
The following conditions will affect clearance space between the Sullybilt
system or any system for that matter and the wheel wells.
1 Uneven body pad thickness from side to side
2 Varying camber from side to side
3 Frame damage due to corrosion/collision/ weakness from modifications
4 Disparities in wheel well positioning or modifications or damage to wheel
wells
If you have less than 5 1/8" from the center of the airbag mount and the
wheel well you may encounter a clearance issue.
On the four coaches which I have personally installed the Sullybilt system
on I had NO clearance issues or observed the bag flow over the fill port
standoff.
Steve Thornburgs set is the only set I have sold with a reported clearance
issue out of 12 complete sets
I did not build Skip Hartlines brackets
Sully
77 Royale
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 7:27 PM, SThornbg <SThornbg@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> I plan to run mine as they are until I see significant marking on the
> wheel well surface. If that happens, I will probably try to put a piece of
> galvanized heating duct material in as a rub strip - replaceable as it
> wears......
>
> Steve Thornburg
> South Bend, IN
> 77 PB 455 "Tinker Toy"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Sullybuilt bags issues [message #166691 is a reply to message #166683] |
Wed, 18 April 2012 06:38 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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As I stated earlier I found that my rubbing issue was caused by the position of the right wheel well, because the vanity is right up on it. I was just trying to give a thought to what might be a cause of the rubbing issue. There is 1" gap on the left side between the wheel well and the body giving it extra clearance because it is inboard 1". I recently talked to another GMCer and he confirmed that the vanity is right up against the wheel well, pushing it outboard on the left side, he saw it when he replaced his water heater. As far as the roll over I don't see a reason other than maybe how fast I deflate or something real simple I haven't stumbled upon, I'm in no way blaming Sully's design, remember what KISS means, and this design could be no simpler. Even Jim K says his single bag has a tendecy to roll over. Sometimes concessions have to be made to save some money and complications. Again just working of Mark/Sully's designs and do appreciate all the brain time involved on their part. Thanks again.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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