Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Complete rewire
| [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166074] |
Wed, 11 April 2012 21:10  |
Peter Garry
Messages: 138
Registered: July 2011
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Senior Member |
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I have stripped all of the original house wiring, including removing the onan, and will rewire.
Propose:
LED lights,
12v Danfoss frig,
12v swamp cooler
Deep cycle batteries (min 250 amp hour capacity)
Solar panels with controllers etc.
Small Honda 1000w portable generator for the hopefully rare battery charging.
12v for CPAP
3, 110 v ac circuits, 800 amp microwave, hair dryer etc.
I need advice on circuiting (ie al. Frame ground versus 2 wire circuits, wire gauge, etc.
PeterG
Calgary Alberta
1973 - 23' once a 'painted desert'
Sent from my iPad
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166076 is a reply to message #166074] |
Wed, 11 April 2012 21:46  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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I think that if you keep the same wire gauge as original, you should be OK. All the house electrical should be grounded to the aluminum coach bodywork, not the steel chassis. There seems to be a reason that you want to keep the chassis and house grounds separate (though I don't remember the reason).
When I replaced my buzz box, I switched the original glass fuses for a multiuse blade-type fuse box so it would be easier to add additional circuits. I did add an additional circuit with a 12 volt outlet by the back bedroom for my CPAP machine. Be sure to keep good notes of wire color and routing to make things repairable and traceable for the future - it's very easy to forget how or why something was done.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166085 is a reply to message #166076] |
Wed, 11 April 2012 23:36 |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676
Registered: August 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
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Load determines wire size. For 12V stuff # 14 will carry up to 15 amps for normal distances in a motorhome. You can use the aluminum body for ground return.
For AC, I'd stick with #12/3 as it will handle up to 20A. Carry the ground (the green wire) back to the breaker panel then to the body ground.
Black is "hot" in AC wiring, white is neutral and green is ground. In the 12V world things get a little wobbly. Both black and white have been used for "hot" or +. You could also use several colors to keep track of circuit routings.
Check the past posts for some good info on grounding body to chassis.
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166097 is a reply to message #166074] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 08:17 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Peter Garry wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 22:10 |
I have stripped all of the original house wiring, including removing the onan, and will rewire.
Propose:
LED lights,
12v Danfoss frig,
12v swamp cooler
Deep cycle batteries (min 250 amp hour capacity)
Solar panels with controllers etc.
Small Honda 1000w portable generator for the hopefully rare battery charging.
12v for CPAP
3, 110 v ac circuits, 800 amp microwave, hair dryer etc.
I need advice on circuiting (ie al. Frame ground versus 2 wire circuits, wire gauge, etc.
PeterG
Calgary Alberta
1973 - 23' once a 'painted desert'
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Peter,
I think you mean an 800WATT microwave.
I suggest you go to:
http://www.marinco.com/page/wire-tech-data
There you will find wire sizing help.
I don't know why they publish a 10%, but don't use it as it is too much potential loss for most things that matter.
For a price starter, go to:
http://shop.genuinedealz.com/
I also suggest that you reconsider the Danfoss (Waeco/ Adler Barbour). Even 40watt is a lot of full time draw if you are boondocking. I very much like the AB units, but they are still power hungry compared to an absorption unit - unless you are going without LP.
You should seriously running 2-wire circuits. Yes, it is more copper, but the aluminum structure of a GMC is often difficult to locate and connect to effectively. Trouble shooting 2-wire is also bags easier, and also much often required.
This is the sort of work I used to do all the time on cruising boats. If you have questions, I'm here a lot.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166098 is a reply to message #166097] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 08:30 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""You should seriously running 2-wire circuits. Yes, it is more copper, but the aluminum structure of a GMC is often difficult to locate and connect to effectively. Trouble shooting 2-wire is also bags easier, and also much often required.
""
I would certainly second that one! It seems that circuit ground issues come up here constantly and can cause some very interesting and difficult circuit feedback problems.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166102 is a reply to message #166097] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 08:43 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Peter,
I agree with Matt. On 12VDC circuits I would use 2 wire circuits.
Bring them back to a common ground at the fuse/circuit breaker
panel. Also be aware that Red/black wiring is often used in 12VDC
circuits. Red is always pos+ and black is Neg-. You need to make
sure that you document all your wiring circuits including wire color
and size. The factory wiring diagrams are a great tool in trouble
shooting problems and issues. When you create bastard wiring the next
owner is screwed!
JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
On Apr 12, 2012, at 9:17 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
>
> Peter Garry wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 22:10
>> I have stripped all of the original house wiring, including
>> removing the onan, and will rewire.
>> Propose:
>> LED lights,
>> 12v Danfoss frig,
>> 12v swamp cooler
>> Deep cycle batteries (min 250 amp hour capacity)
>> Solar panels with controllers etc.
>> Small Honda 1000w portable generator for the hopefully rare battery
>> charging.
>> 12v for CPAP
>> 3, 110 v ac circuits, 800 amp microwave, hair dryer etc.
>> I need advice on circuiting (ie al. Frame ground versus 2 wire
>> circuits, wire gauge, etc.
>>
>> PeterG
>> Calgary Alberta
>> 1973 - 23' once a 'painted desert'
>
> Peter,
>
> I think you mean an 800WATT microwave.
>
> I suggest you go to:
> http://www.marinco.com/page/wire-tech-data
> There you will find wire sizing help.
> I don't know why they publish a 10%, but don't use it as it is too
> much potential loss for most things that matter.
>
> For a price starter, go to:
> http://shop.genuinedealz.com/
>
> I also suggest that you reconsider the Danfoss (Waeco/ Adler
> Barbour). Even 40watt is a lot of full time draw if you are
> boondocking. I very much like the AB units, but they are still
> power hungry compared to an absorption unit - unless you are going
> without LP.
>
> You should seriously running 2-wire circuits. Yes, it is more
> copper, but the aluminum structure of a GMC is often difficult to
> locate and connect to effectively. Trouble shooting 2-wire is also
> bags easier, and also much often required.
>
> This is the sort of work I used to do all the time on cruising
> boats. If you have questions, I'm here a lot.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as
> you will find
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166119 is a reply to message #166102] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 10:15 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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If you are truly doing a COMPLETE rewire, you may wish
to follow the newer boating recommendations to use RED
for positive and YELLOW for negative on 13V DC circuits.
This makes it very easy to see what you are working with.
Marine chandleries (supply shops) such as West Marine,
Defender, and others will have duplex twin-conductor
cable in various wire sizes.
I would recommend this new "convention" even for
additions to existing systems.
The only possible place you are likely to find red 120V
AC wiring would be in the L2 conductor of a 125-0-125
50 Amp feed. I have that in my AC breaker box.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~~ k2gkk @ hotmail dot com ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
_______________
*[ ]....[][ ][]\
*--OO---[]---O-*
> From: powerjon@chartermi.net
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:43:43 -0400
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire
>
> Peter,
> I agree with Matt. On 12VDC circuits I would use 2 wire circuits.
> Bring them back to a common ground at the fuse/circuit breaker
> panel. Also be aware that Red/black wiring is often used in 12VDC
> circuits. Red is always pos+ and black is Neg-. You need to make
> sure that you document all your wiring circuits including wire color
> and size. The factory wiring diagrams are a great tool in trouble
> shooting problems and issues. When you create bastard wiring the next
> owner is screwed!
>
> JR Wright
> GMC Great Laker MHC
> GMC Eastern States
> GMCMHI
> 78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
> 1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
> Michigan
>
> On Apr 12, 2012, at 9:17 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Peter Garry wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 22:10
> >> I have stripped all of the original house wiring, including
> >> removing the onan, and will rewire.
> >> Propose:
> >> LED lights,
> >> 12v Danfoss frig,
> >> 12v swamp cooler
> >> Deep cycle batteries (min 250 amp hour capacity)
> >> Solar panels with controllers etc.
> >> Small Honda 1000w portable generator for the hopefully rare battery
> >> charging.
> >> 12v for CPAP
> >> 3, 110 v ac circuits, 800 amp microwave, hair dryer etc.
> >> I need advice on circuiting (ie al. Frame ground versus 2 wire
> >> circuits, wire gauge, etc.
> >>
> >> PeterG
> >> Calgary Alberta
> >> 1973 - 23' once a 'painted desert'
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > I think you mean an 800WATT microwave.
> >
> > I suggest you go to:
> > http://www.marinco.com/page/wire-tech-data
> > There you will find wire sizing help.
> > I don't know why they publish a 10%, but don't use it as it is too
> > much potential loss for most things that matter.
> >
> > For a price starter, go to:
> > http://shop.genuinedealz.com/
> >
> > I also suggest that you reconsider the Danfoss (Waeco/ Adler
> > Barbour). Even 40watt is a lot of full time draw if you are
> > boondocking. I very much like the AB units, but they are still
> > power hungry compared to an absorption unit - unless you are going
> > without LP.
> >
> > You should seriously running 2-wire circuits. Yes, it is more
> > copper, but the aluminum structure of a GMC is often difficult to
> > locate and connect to effectively. Trouble shooting 2-wire is also
> > bags easier, and also much often required.
> >
> > This is the sort of work I used to do all the time on cruising
> > boats. If you have questions, I'm here a lot.
> >
> > Matt
> > --
> > Matt & Mary Colie
> > '73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as
> > you will find
> > SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166125 is a reply to message #166097] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 11:41 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Matt Colie wrote on Thu, 12 April 2012 06:17 |
(snip)
You should seriously running 2-wire circuits. Yes, it is more copper, but the aluminum structure of a GMC is often difficult to locate and connect to effectively. Trouble shooting 2-wire is also bags easier, and also much often required.
This is the sort of work I used to do all the time on cruising boats. If you have questions, I'm here a lot.
Matt
|
I will pile on with the second wire for ground (negative) crowd. Airstream has been using that for 30 years, even though they have an all metal shell. Ground issues will be reduced or eliminated with a two wire arrangement.
Be aware that if you use a converter/charger like a PD 92xx unit, the 1000 watt Honda will not support any larger than a 45 amp model, due to power factor issues with the switching power supply they use and the Honda inverter. This is a "trust me" by actual test in my GMC, when I had it. The 9260 in my GMC would trip the Honda out when trying to charge a set of golf cart batteries at low charge. On my other RV's I have 9245's and the Honda 1000 works ok.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166141 is a reply to message #166074] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 14:19 |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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CPAP users,
My wife has the problem and had much difficulty. She's had problems adapting to the CPAP machine and is having better luck with something new called the Provent SR Nasal Device. (proventtherapy.com). It's a patch that goes over each nostril and simulates the effect of the CPAP machine. It might be an alternative for those times when you don't have power available. It's a prescription item.
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166151 is a reply to message #166141] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 16:11 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Hijacker
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 12, 2012, at 12:19 PM, Jack Christensen <captjack@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>
> CPAP users,
> My wife has the problem and had much difficulty. She's had problems adapting to the CPAP machine and is having better luck with something new called the Provent SR Nasal Device. (proventtherapy.com). It's a patch that goes over each nostril and simulates the effect of the CPAP machine. It might be an alternative for those times when you don't have power available. It's a prescription item.
> --
> Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
> '76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
> '65 Clark Cortez,
> Sebastopol, CA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166156 is a reply to message #166074] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 17:48 |
Gail Marks Cruiser
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2009
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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G'day Peter,
I have done similar to what you are planning, I kept the roof air as it is too humid here for swamp coolers, and I haven't needed a gennie yet. http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=35565&title=the-planstart-over&cat=5582
I also subscribe to the twin wire system for the house, not only does it reduce some resistance but it also gives you more accurate consumption readings on your solar controller. If you do go this route don't forget to install a second solenoid to the "boost" circuit to provide common ground should you need a jump, Ooohh!
Now would also be a good time to consider your power requirements in the dash, we have wired the stereo(DVD GPS etc), air suspension and installed 12 volt power outlets for phone and laptop charging.
Mark Bennett
Gail & Mark's Cruiser
Gold Coast, Australia.
Motorhoming Lifestyle.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166162 is a reply to message #166154] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 18:27 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I have not posted on this topic
Sully
77 royale
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 12, 2012, at 2:46 PM, noi <v76_Birchaven@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sully – Respectfully Disagree :) - From items in list and “far fetched” scenario :roll:
>
> Dry Camping > At Night (Solar panels) > Run out of gas (Honda Generator) > Batteries dead (Deep cycle batteries) = No 12v for CPAP
>
> So…. SR Nasal Device does have some applicability to this posting :d
>
> Carl P.
> 76 Birchaven
> South of Fremont
> _______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166176 is a reply to message #166074] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 20:50 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I wouldn't use body as a return on anything other than lighting. Just my preference.
Frame grounding sucks. If you do, yes, follow the advice given, document it or at least ground it close to the item using it.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166194 is a reply to message #166186] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 22:30 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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No. Actually my bad. Hard to read your mail with all of the nu
Bers and symbols. Forgot about my hijack reply
Sully
77 royale
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 12, 2012, at 7:59 PM, noi <v76_Birchaven@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sully…. My sincere apology – The [message #166151] in this thread appeared to be attributed to you – My Bad!
>
> Carl P.
> 76 Birchaven
> South of Fremont
>
>
>
>
> sgltrac wrote on Thu, 12 April 2012 14:11
>> Hijacker
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 12, 2012, at 12:19 PM, Jack Christensen <captjack@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CPAP users,
>>> My wife has the problem and had much difficulty....
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Complete rewire [message #166209 is a reply to message #166074] |
Fri, 13 April 2012 01:30 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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May I suggest:
Everyone is right on about using two wires for 12v RV wiring. However. Standards for RVs is that white is used for Ground and any other colours for the differing circuits. UL and CSA standards for RVs is that you use minimum 14 ga wire for 12 v circuits. You will see that this standard is NOT used in our coaches from the factory. They used Black as Ground. Each RV electrical accessory had to be hooked up backward (White to Black) Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
[Updated on: Fri, 13 April 2012 12:00] Report message to a moderator |
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- From items in list and “far fetched” scenario 
I corrected my Post: