| Aluminum Manifold gasket [message #165879] |
Mon, 09 April 2012 23:17  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I thought I would start a new topic rather than bury this post in the previous long topic.
Dick Paterson has a "kit" that consists of the intake manifold gaskets with the stainless blocking plates. Also included in the kit are detailed instructions with the correct way to seal and place the gaskets when installing the manifold. I believe the bolt holes punched in the gaskets in his kit are the correct 3/8" ones rather than the more common 1/2" ones that allow the gasket to slide around during installation.
http://www.paterson-gmc.com/gmc-motorhome/block-off-kits/
I suggest that you contact Dick for a set and quit messing around with the other ones.
I have to admit that I do not have much experience with his kit. I installed my manifold once with his kit many years ago and moved on to other projects.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Aluminum Manifold gasket [message #165884 is a reply to message #165879] |
Tue, 10 April 2012 00:47  |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| Ken Burton wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 21:17 |
I thought I would start a new topic rather than bury this post in the previous long topic.
Dick Paterson has a "kit" that consists of the intake manifold gaskets with the stainless blocking plates. Also included in the kit are detailed instructions with the correct way to seal and place the gaskets when installing the manifold. I believe the bolt holes punched in the gaskets in his kit are the correct 3/8" ones rather than the more common 1/2" ones that allow the gasket to slide around during installation.
http://www.paterson-gmc.com/gmc-motorhome/block-off-kits/
I suggest that you contact Dick for a set and quit messing around with the other ones.
I have to admit that I do not have much experience with his kit. I installed my manifold once with his kit many years ago and moved on to other projects.
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Dick's kit is excellent. I, however would caution those installing a Rockwell Aluminum. Love my Rockwell, but at least my manifold will fail if you "hang" the gasket on studs. The gasket will completely miss the aluminum mating surface. (7+ quarts in 400 miles.) I was so low on oil by the time I go to the Rose Parade I was dropping pressure (0) every time I put on the brakes. That was after 260 miles. Scary when you cannot find anywhere to pull over for blocks.
The lower(cam side) mating surfaces of the aluminum ports have measurable less surface against the head when compared with cast iron. I had to enlarge (egg) the holes in the gasket to center the gasket on the intake ports. I used Right Stuff to attach the gasket to the manifold.
Here is a picture. Look closely and you can see that the gasket is centered on the ports, but you cannot see the entire bolt hole in the aluminum. The tighter the bolt holes in the gasket, the more gasket you have to wallow out.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=43838&title=aluminum-intake-gasket&cat=500
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
[Updated on: Tue, 10 April 2012 00:53] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Aluminum Manifold gasket [message #165929 is a reply to message #165884] |
Tue, 10 April 2012 12:20 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| George Beckman wrote on Tue, 10 April 2012 00:47 |
| Ken Burton wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 21:17 |
I thought I would start a new topic rather than bury this post in the previous long topic.
Dick Paterson has a "kit" that consists of the intake manifold gaskets with the stainless blocking plates. Also included in the kit are detailed instructions with the correct way to seal and place the gaskets when installing the manifold. I believe the bolt holes punched in the gaskets in his kit are the correct 3/8" ones rather than the more common 1/2" ones that allow the gasket to slide around during installation.
http://www.paterson-gmc.com/gmc-motorhome/block-off-kits/
I suggest that you contact Dick for a set and quit messing around with the other ones.
I have to admit that I do not have much experience with his kit. I installed my manifold once with his kit many years ago and moved on to other projects.
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Dick's kit is excellent. I, however would caution those installing a Rockwell Aluminum. Love my Rockwell, but at least my manifold will fail if you "hang" the gasket on studs. The gasket will completely miss the aluminum mating surface. (7+ quarts in 400 miles.) I was so low on oil by the time I go to the Rose Parade I was dropping pressure (0) every time I put on the brakes. That was after 260 miles. Scary when you cannot find anywhere to pull over for blocks.
The lower(cam side) mating surfaces of the aluminum ports have measurable less surface against the head when compared with cast iron. I had to enlarge (egg) the holes in the gasket to center the gasket on the intake ports. I used Right Stuff to attach the gasket to the manifold.
Here is a picture. Look closely and you can see that the gasket is centered on the ports, but you cannot see the entire bolt hole in the aluminum. The tighter the bolt holes in the gasket, the more gasket you have to wallow out.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=43838&title=aluminum-intake-gasket&cat=500
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George.
The picture shown is not a picture of Dick Paterson's "kit". Dick's kit has the cutouts and the stainless blocking plates included. My point was Dick's kit matches the manifold correctly.
If were doing an aluminum manifold I would call Dick and ask him if he has matched his kit to the Aluminum manifold. Then I would order a set from him.
I'm not saying others will not work with a little modification, careful positioning, and gluing, but why run the risk of having to do the job a second time. I screw up enough things on my own requiring me to do the job all over a second time. Why run the risk of doing it a second time on this job.
With Dick's kit you also end up with stainless blocking plates up against the hot exhaust ports in the heads. I would rather have the stainless plates, which have been proven to work. I do not like the idea of just gasket material and aluminum exposed to the hot exhaust.
Please call Dick Paterson and ask him about using his "kit" with the Rockwell aluminum manifold.
http://www.paterson-gmc.com/
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Aluminum Manifold gasket [message #165936 is a reply to message #165929] |
Tue, 10 April 2012 13:11 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Burton wrote on Tue, 10 April 2012 10:20 |
| George Beckman wrote on Tue, 10 April 2012 00:47 |
| Ken Burton wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 21:17 |
I thought I would start a new topic rather than bury this post in the previous long topic.
Dick Paterson has a "kit" that consists of the intake manifold gaskets with the stainless blocking plates. Also included in the kit are detailed instructions with the correct way to seal and place the gaskets when installing the manifold. I believe the bolt holes punched in the gaskets in his kit are the correct 3/8" ones rather than the more common 1/2" ones that allow the gasket to slide around during installation.
http://www.paterson-gmc.com/gmc-motorhome/block-off-kits/
I suggest that you contact Dick for a set and quit messing around with the other ones.
I have to admit that I do not have much experience with his kit. I installed my manifold once with his kit many years ago and moved on to other projects.
|
Dick's kit is excellent. I, however would caution those installing a Rockwell Aluminum. Love my Rockwell, but at least my manifold will fail if you "hang" the gasket on studs. The gasket will completely miss the aluminum mating surface. (7+ quarts in 400 miles.) I was so low on oil by the time I go to the Rose Parade I was dropping pressure (0) every time I put on the brakes. That was after 260 miles. Scary when you cannot find anywhere to pull over for blocks.
The lower(cam side) mating surfaces of the aluminum ports have measurable less surface against the head when compared with cast iron. I had to enlarge (egg) the holes in the gasket to center the gasket on the intake ports. I used Right Stuff to attach the gasket to the manifold.
Here is a picture. Look closely and you can see that the gasket is centered on the ports, but you cannot see the entire bolt hole in the aluminum. The tighter the bolt holes in the gasket, the more gasket you have to wallow out.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=43838&title=aluminum-intake-gasket&cat=500
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George.
The picture shown is not a picture of Dick Paterson's "kit". Dick's kit has the cutouts and the stainless blocking plates included. My point was Dick's kit matches the manifold correctly.
If were doing an aluminum manifold I would call Dick and ask him if he has matched his kit to the Aluminum manifold. Then I would order a set from him.
I'm not saying others will not work with a little modification, careful positioning, and gluing, but why run the risk of having to do the job a second time. I screw up enough things on my own requiring me to do the job all over a second time. Why run the risk of doing it a second time on this job.
With Dick's kit you also end up with stainless blocking plates up against the hot exhaust ports in the heads. I would rather have the stainless plates, which have been proven to work. I do not like the idea of just gasket material and aluminum exposed to the hot exhaust.
Please call Dick Paterson and ask him about using his "kit" with the Rockwell aluminum manifold.
http://www.paterson-gmc.com/
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That sounds like excellent advice, Ken. I will try that first along with having an expert (Steve F.) help me. Another suggestion was to hammer out a gasket from sheet gasket material to be SURE it fits. I would rather save myself the work if Dick's gasket is made to fit correctly.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aluminum Manifold gasket [message #165993 is a reply to message #165987] |
Tue, 10 April 2012 21:23 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Alright.
Someone who has an aluminum manifold or plans to install one please call Dick Paterson. I have no dog in the hunt and do not need to be in the middle of this.
If no one else calls then I will and I'll get a set if necessary. After that I'll then have to take them at least 150 miles south down to Indianapolis and match them up against an aluminum manifold. I do not have one here.
A simple phone call to Dick Paterson should get an authoritative answer as to how these fit on an aluminum manifold.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aluminum Manifold gasket [message #166008 is a reply to message #166000] |
Tue, 10 April 2012 22:40 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Gary,
I am sorry to inform you that Dick Paterson DOES NOT supply a Mr. Gasket 404
with his plates.
Here's a picture of his kit:
http://www.paterson-gmc.com/gmc-motorhome/block-off-kits/
Note that the gasket is 0.30 thick.
Here's a picture of the Mr. Gasket 404 kit:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-404/
Note that the gasket is 0.60 thick.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Worobec
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:58 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aluminum Manifold gasket
Ken, this does not have anything to do with Dick. He supplies Mr Gasket 404
gaskets and a block off plate for an iron manifold. They work great for that
application. As usual great parts from Dick. THIS Aluminum manifold has a
thinner bottom flange than an iron manifold. Good on Dick if he has made new
gaskets to allow a better fit for the aluminum manifold. Don;t even get Dick
or yourself into a tizzy on this. Each engine is different and each builder
needs to be aware of the issue and figure out how to fix it themselves.
Anyone who uses Dick's, Jim's or an off the shelf set needs to fit and check
them before installing the manifold. If they don;t then don;t blame someone
else. Any decking of the block or shaving of the heads is going to change
the fit. You just need to check it.
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Burton" <n9cv@comcast.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aluminum Manifold gasket
>
>
> Alright.
>
> Someone who has an aluminum manifold or plans to install one please call
> Dick Paterson. I have no dog in the hunt and do not need to be in the
> middle of this.
>
> If no one else calls then I will and I'll get a set if necessary. After
> that I'll then have to take them at least 150 miles south down to
> Indianapolis and match them up against an aluminum manifold. I do not
> have one here.
>
> A simple phone call to Dick Paterson should get an authoritative answer as
> to how these fit on an aluminum manifold.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aluminum Manifold gasket [message #166009 is a reply to message #166000] |
Tue, 10 April 2012 23:07 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I started this thread saying that Dick includes complete instructions on how to install and seal his "kit" of intake manifold gaskets and blocking plates.
I still think someone who is installing an aluminum manifold should call him and discuss the aluminum manifold installation with his "kit".
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Aluminum Manifold gasket [message #166022 is a reply to message #166008] |
Wed, 11 April 2012 08:38 |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Rob, you are correct. Nothing wrong with Dick's gaskets at all. I just did
not like the fit on my aluminum manifold so I made my own.
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aluminum Manifold gasket
> Gary,
>
> I am sorry to inform you that Dick Paterson DOES NOT supply a Mr. Gasket
> 404
> with his plates.
>
> Here's a picture of his kit:
>
> http://www.paterson-gmc.com/gmc-motorhome/block-off-kits/
>
> Note that the gasket is 0.30 thick.
>
> Here's a picture of the Mr. Gasket 404 kit:
>
> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-404/
>
> Note that the gasket is 0.60 thick.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Worobec
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:58 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aluminum Manifold gasket
>
> Ken, this does not have anything to do with Dick. He supplies Mr Gasket
> 404
> gaskets and a block off plate for an iron manifold. They work great for
> that
>
> application. As usual great parts from Dick. THIS Aluminum manifold has a
> thinner bottom flange than an iron manifold. Good on Dick if he has made
> new
>
> gaskets to allow a better fit for the aluminum manifold. Don;t even get
> Dick
>
> or yourself into a tizzy on this. Each engine is different and each
> builder
> needs to be aware of the issue and figure out how to fix it themselves.
> Anyone who uses Dick's, Jim's or an off the shelf set needs to fit and
> check
>
> them before installing the manifold. If they don;t then don;t blame
> someone
> else. Any decking of the block or shaving of the heads is going to change
> the fit. You just need to check it.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary and Joanne Worobec
> 1973 GMC Glacier
> Anza, CA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Burton" <n9cv@comcast.net>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 7:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Aluminum Manifold gasket
>
>
>>
>>
>> Alright.
>>
>> Someone who has an aluminum manifold or plans to install one please call
>> Dick Paterson. I have no dog in the hunt and do not need to be in the
>> middle of this.
>>
>> If no one else calls then I will and I'll get a set if necessary. After
>> that I'll then have to take them at least 150 miles south down to
>> Indianapolis and match them up against an aluminum manifold. I do not
>> have one here.
>>
>> A simple phone call to Dick Paterson should get an authoritative answer
>> as
>
>> to how these fit on an aluminum manifold.
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: Aluminum Manifold gasket [message #166181 is a reply to message #165879] |
Thu, 12 April 2012 21:28 |
Jon payne
Messages: 495
Registered: May 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Guys
I installed the Rockwell AL intake last night and I did use the Dick Patterson gasket kit that I got from Jimk. I can tell you that the gaskets do not completely line up with the holes. I had to enlarge some of the holes so the bolts would pass through. Not really big deal. I ended up using the 3M weather strip glue (08001) and glued to the intake. Worked great!
Best tip I got was to cut the heads off of two 3/8" bolts and install each one at opposite ends of the manifold to use as guide pins. This made it real easy to set the manifold in place. THANKS Rob M!!
Will post some picks once I am finished.
Jon
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN
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