| onan question revisited [message #165681] |
Sat, 07 April 2012 17:03  |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Again, thanks for all the answers yesterday.
My generator was running by being hotwired and a PENSKE remote starter switch to crank from the PO. Put my new control board on the 6k and it cranked and ran fine only problem was is didn't shut off fine. Determined that my stator under flywheel must have not had any output to the board to tell it that the motor was running so it would switch over to the run relay so that the circuitry for the kill circuit would be able to make it release power. That's at least my simple understanding of how the crank, run, and kill circuits work, also after I killed it by pulling the points wire there was still power to the coil and fuel pump, could hear the pump click every now and then. Started tracking down the stator wire off of the connector and found there was none and could not find the stator wire coming into the harness from behind the flywheel. Pulled the flywheel and it was obvious, no stator for a long time, the inside of the flywheel had 1/4 inch of dust. So my big question since the id tags are long gone are these pretty much all the same or are there different ones. It's in a 74 TZE. Other than the failure to shut down it runs fine. Will handle the 2 roof airs at the same time. Does anyone have one they've junked out they want to sell the stator and screws or are there Onan Junkyards or maybe our regular sources like JimK or Sirum have any. Any Ideals.
Skip hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: onan question revisited [message #165683 is a reply to message #165681] |
Sat, 07 April 2012 17:46  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| skip2 wrote on Sat, 07 April 2012 18:03 |
Again, thanks for all the answers yesterday.
My generator was running by being hotwired and a PENSKE remote starter switch to crank from the PO. Put my new control board on the 6k and it cranked and ran fine only problem was is didn't shut off fine. Determined that my stator under flywheel must have not had any output to the board to tell it that the motor was running so it would switch over to the run relay so that the circuitry for the kill circuit would be able to make it release power. That's at least my simple understanding of how the crank, run, and kill circuits work, also after I killed it by pulling the points wire there was still power to the coil and fuel pump, could hear the pump click every now and then. Started tracking down the stator wire off of the connector and found there was none and could not find the stator wire coming into the harness from behind the flywheel. Pulled the flywheel and it was obvious, no stator for a long time, the inside of the flywheel had 1/4 inch of dust. So my big question since the id tags are long gone are these pretty much all the same or are there different ones. It's in a 74 TZE. Other than the failure to shut down it runs fine. Will handle the 2 roof airs at the same time. Does anyone have one they've junked out they want to sell the stator and screws or are there Onan Junkyards or maybe our regular sources like JimK or Sirum have any. Any Ideals.
Skip hartline
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Skip,
I am told that Jim Bounds has a literal heap of used Onans. Probably most are the 6s as the four were not as common. Your best bet would to be buy one from him for all the electrics as it seems yours has be hacked beyond common sense.
This is also a good reason to have your at least general location in your profile or sig. That way if someone is close by, they might offer heavy parts.
Actually, if you do that. I know someone that needs a field and KenB that writes here often would like a new flywheel.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] onan question revisited [message #165685 is a reply to message #165681] |
Sat, 07 April 2012 18:04 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Skip,
I wouldn't bother replacing the flywheel alternator. It had two functions:
1. To supply charge current for the Onan-dedicated battery charger. Most
of us have that disconnected and you certainly haven't been using it. 2.
To supply the "running" signal for the control board to prevent engaging
the starter on a running engine (as if anyone might not hear it running).
That voltage can easily be replaced with a 120:24 vac transformer. Just
wire the primary of the transformer (even an appropriate "wall wart" will
suffice) to the generator's output and the secondary to ground and pins 5
and 8 of the control board.
Your Penske remote starter switch may be responsible for the failure to
shut down -- you need a SPDT-CO spring loaded to the Center OFF switch at
that location. On the wiring diagram, you'll see that the remote switch
provides ground (through the switch's common terminal) for either the Start
or the Stop circuits on the board.
Ken H.
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Skip Hartline wrote:
> .
> My generator was running by being hotwired and a PENSKE remote starter
> switch to crank from the PO. Put my new control board on the 6k and it
> cranked and ran fine only problem was is didn't shut off fine. Determined
> that my stator under flywheel must have not had any output to the board to
> tell it that the motor was running so it would switch over to the run relay
> so that the circuitry for the kill circuit would be able to make it release
> power. That's at least my simple understanding of how the crank, run, and
> kill circuits work, also after I killed it by pulling the points wire there
> was still power to the coil and fuel pump, could hear the pump click every
> now and then. Started tracking down the stator wire off of the connector
> and found there was none and could not find the stator wire coming into the
> harness from behind the flywheel. Pulled the flywheel and it was obvious,
> no stator for a long time, the inside of the flywheel had 1/4 inch of dust.
> So my big question sinc
> e the id tags are long gone are these pretty much all the same or are
> there different ones. It's in a 74 TZE. Other than the failure to shut down
> it runs fine. Will handle the 2 roof airs at the same time. Does anyone
> have one they've junked out they want to sell the stator and screws or are
> there Onan Junkyards or maybe our regular sources like JimK or Sirum have
> any. Any Ideals.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] onan question revisited [message #165689 is a reply to message #165685] |
Sat, 07 April 2012 19:19 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I'm almost ashamed I didn't think of that McGiver fix I work with those Xfrmers all the time. By the way does anyone know the torque figure for the flywheel.
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: onan question revisited [message #165690 is a reply to message #165681] |
Sat, 07 April 2012 19:22 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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You have me confused by your symptoms and your solution.
The alternator behind the flywheel keeps the Onan engine running by supplying approximately 28 to 30 volts AC to the board on pins 5 and pin 8. This obviously is NOT happening so something else is keeping either K2 or K3 energized.
Since you have a new board and there is no other source in the Onan that I know of for for 28 volts AC, I suspect K2 is never energizing and K3 is being kept energized by some other circuit. Do you possibly have a primer circuit (used for priming the engine) active somewhere? Do you have an incorrect remote start stop switch. That switch should be a double throw center off switch with both directions being momentary.
As for replacing the alternator it would be much easier to just add a 24 vac wall wart to board pins 5 and 8 or a 12 volt DC wall wart to board pins 11 and k2 relay pin 3. Instead of using board pin 11 you also could use K2 relay pin 4 and 3 for the 12 volt DC wall wart attachment.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
[Updated on: Sun, 08 April 2012 10:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: onan question revisited [message #165722 is a reply to message #165690] |
Sun, 08 April 2012 10:09 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| Ken Burton wrote on Sat, 07 April 2012 18:22 |
You have me confused by you symptoms and your solution.
The alternator on the flywheel keeps the Onan engine running by supplying approximately 28 to 30 volts AC to the board on pins 5 and pin 8. This obviously is NOT happening so something else is keeping either K2 or K3 energized.
Since it is a new board and there is not other source I know of for for 28 volts AC, I suspect K2 is never energizing and K3 is being kept energized by some other circuit. Do not possibly have a primer circuit used for priming the engine active somewhere? To you have an incorrect remote start stop switch. That switch should be a double throw center off switch with both directions being momentary.
As for replacing the alternator it would be much easier to just add a 24 vac wall wart to board pins 5 and 8 or a 12 volt DC wall wart to board pins 11 and k2 relay pin 3. Instead of using board pin 11 you also could use K2 relay pin 4 and 3 for the 12 volt DC wall wart attachment.
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If your Onan is running without a flywheel stator input, someone has hotwired the ignition and fuel pump directly to 12V and your new board is not even in the system even though it may look like it.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: onan question revisited [message #165754 is a reply to message #165722] |
Sun, 08 April 2012 13:39 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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All the hotwiring has been removed. Does anyone know the torque figure for the flywheel bolt.
Thanks
Skip
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: onan question revisited [message #165758 is a reply to message #165754] |
Sun, 08 April 2012 14:10 |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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It's here.
The first number is the minimum, the second, maximum
TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS IN LB . FT .
Connecting Rod Bolts
MIN.
27
MAY.
29
Flywheel Mounting Screw 35 40
Oil Pump 7 9
Gearcase Cover 8 10
Rear Bearing Plate 19 21
Oil Base Mounting Screws 18 23
Cylinder Head Nuts 17 19
Intake Manifold 18 20
Exhaust Manifold 10 12
Oil Pan Screws (18) 8 12
Starter Mounting Bolts 18 20
Generator Through-Studs 15 18
Armature Hold-Down Nut (12 Point) 45 50
Spark Plugs 15 20
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: onan question revisited [message #165763 is a reply to message #165754] |
Sun, 08 April 2012 14:34 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| skip2 wrote on Sun, 08 April 2012 12:39 |
All the hotwiring has been removed. Does anyone know the torque figure for the flywheel bolt.
Thanks
Skip
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If it runs without the flywheel coil, and it doesn't shut off, something is hot wired--possibly at the start stop switch. I bet you can pull the new board off and it won't make any difference.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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