Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)?
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| Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)? [message #164912 is a reply to message #164911] |
Sun, 01 April 2012 15:03   |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Between 45 or 97 cubic inches more displacement, more torque, and more
horsepower, along with a 4 exhaust port cylinder head and an improved (?)
heat riser passage. Bragging rites for bigger is better claims when it
comes to engine displacement. High nickel content cylinder block means a
long wearing cylinder surface. Other than that, not much, in my opinion.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Glenn Giere <glenngiere@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> What does one gain with a cad 500? Just want to know.
>
> Glenn
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| Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)? [message #164955 is a reply to message #164912] |
Sun, 01 April 2012 20:59 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Jim,
I'm sorry but I find your answer quite humorous!
What would an engine have to for you to say it had "much?" ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: James Hupy
Between 45 or 97 cubic inches more displacement, more torque, and more
horsepower, along with a 4 exhaust port cylinder head and an improved (?)
heat riser passage. Bragging rites for bigger is better claims when it
comes to engine displacement. High nickel content cylinder block means a
long wearing cylinder surface. Other than that, not much, in my opinion.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)? [message #164975 is a reply to message #164959] |
Sun, 01 April 2012 22:32 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Sun, 01 April 2012 20:05 |
Gene,
Why would you ask the vendors that question?
I reckon if you had posed it to Joe when he was alive he would have probably
said something along the lines of; "I liked Oldsmobile."
You could send an email to Dick Paterson directly and ask him and see what
he says.
Jerry Potter did great work on Caddy's as does MTS and I've also heard good
reports about The Cad Company.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gene Fisher
I have ask the attendees at every rally --
So I know the vendors have been asked--
What do they say when asked ,
Why do Mondello and Patterson only do 455s and 403s and not CADs?
These guys are our best --
The real deal, guys???
just want to know
Gene
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Rob--you got right to the bottom of the BS. It reminded me of GM's self serving market research. We would show some ugly 2 door sketch and some really beautiful 4 door. Of course we decided that 2 door cars were dead.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)? [message #164987 is a reply to message #164877] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 00:47 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
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Bob wrote,
"Rob--you got right to the bottom of the BS. It reminded me of GM's self serving market research. We would show some ugly 2 door sketch and some really beautiful 4 door. Of course we decided that 2 door cars were dead."
Bob, not sure what time frame you were thinking of, but back in the early 80's, there was some very good research that said 2 doors were becoming a very small part of the market, in advance of the GM-10 "W" cars coming out. (Buick Regal, Olds Cutlass, etc.). In true GM fashion, that was ignored, and the 2-doors were launched 1st with more than a year to go before the 4-doors followed. Many problems besides that with that program, but 3 decades later, GM still hasn't recovered from the huge loss of the midsize car segment that decisions like that led to. Somehow, Ford Taurus at the time, and later Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys managed to clean their clock with either no 2 door at all, or relatively low sales of 2 doors.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)? [message #164998 is a reply to message #164981] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 08:21 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
Just like everything else about a GMC the "bad" stuff gets published here a
lot more than the "good" stuff.
I know Bill Bramlet has a Caddy in his GMC and I don't think he's had one
iota of problem with it.
I know there are other GMC's with Caddy's in them. Ken H has hit a snag that
in my opinion is not related to the engine reliability the problem is being
caused by an outside source.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Galbavy
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 10:51 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)?
.....but for me. .... if someone would show me a Caddy transplant spec that
had a reliable track record I might be interested if and when I ever had to
replace my 455. I know that there are different strokes for different
folks, but I want to drive a reliable motorhome that doesn't become a
"hanger queen". My idea of fun is not wrenching away in 95 degree weather
with fire ants climbing up my back. Eight years ago, when I had to replace
the 455 that was in my GMC it was because the PO let the coach sit in
Indiana thru the winter with no antifreeze and cracked the block. Since then
I have been putting on a good number of miles on her (some a 1/4 mile at a
time, for fun) and have had no real problems with her. Nothing fancy. .... a
Drew Koba 455 flat tappet with a carb.
Just my 2 cents.
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, Fl
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)? [message #165016 is a reply to message #164998] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 10:40 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Rob, to answer your question honestly, there is not enough difference in
either performance or longevity between the big block Cadillac engines like
the 472 and the 500, and the 455 or 403 Olds engines used in our
Motorhomes. All were designed to be high torque, slow turning constant
speed and load engines, basically freeway driving, mile after mile. The
principal difference in application between the cars of the day and the
motorhome is in the amount of crankshaft loading the motorhome brings into
play with the combination of large weight and very tall final drive
gearing. High crank loading usually results in shorter engine life,
particularly when paired with higher rpm's. The 403 is an exception,
because of the fact that it is an oversquare design, bore larger than the
stroke. But it is geared too high to take advantage of that feature. Put
3:70 final drive gears in a coach equipped with a 403, and you will see a
different animal.
If a person has the entire front clip from a Cad eldorado with the oil
pan and jackshaft bracket and all the accessory drive parts, the swap is a
relatively straightforward one. If the existing Cadillac was a good running
engine, and the Oldsmobile that it replaced was totaly worn out, the swap
makes some sense, money wise. I have a 403 in my 78 Royale that is still
going strong, and when it does wear out, I have a selection of engines to
choose from to replace it with. 2 455's, one a Crusader Marine engine with
the better crankshaft and oiling, as well as a 472 Cadillac that I bought
the entire front clip for all the xtra parts I needed.
I am a cadillac guy, I have had a 1949 Sedanette with a 331 OHV
engine, 2 1951 sedans with the same engine, and a 1977 Sedan deVille with
the 394 engine, and a 1961 coupe de Ville with the 345 horse 390 cu in
engine. All the early cad engines had rocker shafts and bushed rocker arms
with pressure oiling, that feature alone makes them superior in my opinion
to the stud mounted "stamped tin" rocker arms of the more modern designs.
All of them were quite durable. The same can not be said for the V4/6/8 in
the barritz and the 4100 engines in the cars that followed the 500 cubic
Inch engines in the Eldo's. The Northstar has evolved into a quite durable
engine platform, and the new cars are using the Corvette engines with mods
to fit the Cads.
If I had to pick a favorite engine, it would be a cast iron 392 Cubic
inch Hemi chrysler engine. Just a personal choice.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:21 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Just like everything else about a GMC the "bad" stuff gets published here a
> lot more than the "good" stuff.
>
> I know Bill Bramlet has a Caddy in his GMC and I don't think he's had one
> iota of problem with it.
>
> I know there are other GMC's with Caddy's in them. Ken H has hit a snag
> that
> in my opinion is not related to the engine reliability the problem is being
> caused by an outside source.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Galbavy
> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 10:51 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)?
>
>
>
> .....but for me. .... if someone would show me a Caddy transplant spec that
> had a reliable track record I might be interested if and when I ever had to
> replace my 455. I know that there are different strokes for different
> folks, but I want to drive a reliable motorhome that doesn't become a
> "hanger queen". My idea of fun is not wrenching away in 95 degree weather
> with fire ants climbing up my back. Eight years ago, when I had to replace
> the 455 that was in my GMC it was because the PO let the coach sit in
> Indiana thru the winter with no antifreeze and cracked the block. Since
> then
> I have been putting on a good number of miles on her (some a 1/4 mile at a
> time, for fun) and have had no real problems with her. Nothing fancy. ....
> a
> Drew Koba 455 flat tappet with a carb.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> jim galbavy
> '73 x-CL ANNIE
> Lake Mary, Fl
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)? [message #165019 is a reply to message #165016] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 11:24 |
 |
hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim;
Good explanation
I run a 455 that's not quite stock, cam, rockers and all the good stuff to
make a 455 work better.
We picked up a 500 Cad Eldorado just for back up some years ago.
As good 455 blocks are getting harder to find.
I'm not changing a thing.
If some one wants the 500 come and get it.
I also have the 425 transmission that I would like to keep.
I can no longer do the big stuff when it come to building and swapping out
engines.
Jim if you would please send me a photo of your 49 Sedanette.
That is one of the finest Cadillac's ever built.
Thanks
Howard
Alpine CA
619 445 9777
hnielsen2@cox.net
PS You Have to be a GMC guy to get the 500 for free.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Hupy" <jamesh1296@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 08:40
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)?
> Rob, to answer your question honestly, there is not enough difference in
> either performance or longevity between the big block Cadillac engines
> like
> the 472 and the 500, and the 455 or 403 Olds engines used in our
> Motorhomes. All were designed to be high torque, slow turning constant
> speed and load engines, basically freeway driving, mile after mile. The
> principal difference in application between the cars of the day and the
> motorhome is in the amount of crankshaft loading the motorhome brings into
> play with the combination of large weight and very tall final drive
> gearing. High crank loading usually results in shorter engine life,
> particularly when paired with higher rpm's. The 403 is an exception,
> because of the fact that it is an oversquare design, bore larger than the
> stroke. But it is geared too high to take advantage of that feature. Put
> 3:70 final drive gears in a coach equipped with a 403, and you will see a
> different animal.
> If a person has the entire front clip from a Cad eldorado with the oil
> pan and jackshaft bracket and all the accessory drive parts, the swap is a
> relatively straightforward one. If the existing Cadillac was a good
> running
> engine, and the Oldsmobile that it replaced was totaly worn out, the swap
> makes some sense, money wise. I have a 403 in my 78 Royale that is still
> going strong, and when it does wear out, I have a selection of engines to
> choose from to replace it with. 2 455's, one a Crusader Marine engine with
> the better crankshaft and oiling, as well as a 472 Cadillac that I bought
> the entire front clip for all the xtra parts I needed.
> I am a cadillac guy, I have had a 1949 Sedanette with a 331 OHV
> engine, 2 1951 sedans with the same engine, and a 1977 Sedan deVille with
> the 394 engine, and a 1961 coupe de Ville with the 345 horse 390 cu in
> engine. All the early cad engines had rocker shafts and bushed rocker arms
> with pressure oiling, that feature alone makes them superior in my opinion
> to the stud mounted "stamped tin" rocker arms of the more modern designs.
> All of them were quite durable. The same can not be said for the V4/6/8 in
> the barritz and the 4100 engines in the cars that followed the 500 cubic
> Inch engines in the Eldo's. The Northstar has evolved into a quite durable
> engine platform, and the new cars are using the Corvette engines with mods
> to fit the Cads.
> If I had to pick a favorite engine, it would be a cast iron 392 Cubic
> inch Hemi chrysler engine. Just a personal choice.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, OR
> 78 GMC Royale 403
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:21 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
> wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>>
>> Just like everything else about a GMC the "bad" stuff gets published here
>> a
>> lot more than the "good" stuff.
>>
>> I know Bill Bramlet has a Caddy in his GMC and I don't think he's had one
>> iota of problem with it.
>>
>> I know there are other GMC's with Caddy's in them. Ken H has hit a snag
>> that
>> in my opinion is not related to the engine reliability the problem is
>> being
>> caused by an outside source.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> USAussie - Downunder
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)? [message #165029 is a reply to message #165016] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 12:31 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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[
If I had to pick a favorite engine, it would be a cast iron 392 Cubic
inch Hemi chrysler engine. Just a personal choice.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
Nice engine and a little heavy and it sure would be a tight fit.You would definitely need Dan's glass engine cover as it would be a sight to behold.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)? [message #165030 is a reply to message #164987] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 12:39 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Craig Lechowicz wrote on Sun, 01 April 2012 23:47 |
Bob wrote,
"Rob--you got right to the bottom of the BS. It reminded me of GM's self serving market research. We would show some ugly 2 door sketch and some really beautiful 4 door. Of course we decided that 2 door cars were dead."
Bob, not sure what time frame you were thinking of, but back in the early 80's, there was some very good research that said 2 doors were becoming a very small part of the market, in advance of the GM-10 "W" cars coming out. (Buick Regal, Olds Cutlass, etc.). In true GM fashion, that was ignored, and the 2-doors were launched 1st with more than a year to go before the 4-doors followed. Many problems besides that with that program, but 3 decades later, GM still hasn't recovered from the huge loss of the midsize car segment that decisions like that led to. Somehow, Ford Taurus at the time, and later Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys managed to clean their clock with either no 2 door at all, or relatively low sales of 2 doors.
|
I just used the 2 door/4 door example randomly. However, if you recall the 2 door A and A specials which preceded the 2 door W cars continued to be very successfull right to the last minute. When the 2 door W's came out sales dropped like a rock because the cars were butt ugly, small, overpriced and front wheel drive. The typical GM marketing answer was that the market went away--we drove it away. The same happened when we brought out the Caprice whale--apparently that market died overnight as well. People's needs and tastes really don't change that quickly. I remember my boss asked me one day why trucks were so popular all of a sudden. My answer was that our cars had abondoned our customers and they had to go somewhere.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)? [message #165031 is a reply to message #165025] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 12:36 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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My driving is mostly in the flat, with a 455 in a 23' transmode... so I figure the 3:07 is suited. For my PB, different gearing is on the list.
for my purposes, I see little benefit in chain vs gears. I'll let the Hispanic Gent and the Asian Gent 'discuss' it out back till one of them wins.
--johnny
'76 23' transmiode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Dan Borlase <bord@shaw.ca>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)?
Jim...let me chime in with your statment regarding the improvement in performance that 3:70's make with a 403cid.
We live in the mountains where grades can be up to 8% for km's (miles). Befor the swap out from 3:07's I thought we were just not going to make it (speed down to as low as 15 to miles per hr). My 403 IS a great eng. lots of get-up-and-go, but GM clearly put the wrong gearing in. After buying Jimmy K's 3:70's, the differance was amazing. For thoes of you running a 403 you NEED to make this a priority. You'll be as impressed as I am even if you are a flatlander.
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)? [message #165037 is a reply to message #165029] |
Mon, 02 April 2012 13:15 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Me for the RB series, and in this service, I think I rather have the 440 CID than I hade the Hemi. Now alls we need to do is figure how to chain drive and TorqueFlite a GMC.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: "roy@gmcnet.org" <roy@gmcnet.org>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] So what do they say (Mondello and Patterson)?
[
If I had to pick a favorite engine, it would be a cast iron 392 Cubic
inch Hemi chrysler engine. Just a personal choice.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
Nice engine and a little heavy and it sure would be a tight fit.You would definitely need Dan's glass engine cover as it would be a sight to behold.
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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