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| Oil WARS ( again) [message #163849] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 11:43  |
MIGUEL MENDEZ
Messages: 179
Registered: August 2004
Location: Montclair, California
Karma: 3
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Mobil 1 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 26.99 gal, walmart
rotela t truck oil, full syn 5w40, 21.99 gal, walmart
delo 400 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 19.98 gal, walmart
hmmmm, what to do ???????????
Miguel
1978 Royale Pain in the %$@, side bath w/ a 403 that i love.
GMC name : The other woman
http://www.mgmgmc.com
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| Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163852 is a reply to message #163849] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 11:58  |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Research the three and buy which ever has the proper amount of Zinc so you wount have too add a Zinc additive.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163853 is a reply to message #163849] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 12:01 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| MIGUEL MENDEZ wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 10:43 |
Mobil 1 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 26.99 gal, walmart
rotela t truck oil, full syn 5w40, 21.99 gal, walmart
delo 400 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 19.98 gal, walmart
hmmmm, what to do ???????????
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You know my answer: get the cheap stuff and forget about the ZDDP scare !
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163856 is a reply to message #163853] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 12:10 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| Bob de Kruyff wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 10:01 |
| MIGUEL MENDEZ wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 10:43 |
Mobil 1 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 26.99 gal, walmart
rotela t truck oil, full syn 5w40, 21.99 gal, walmart
delo 400 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 19.98 gal, walmart
hmmmm, what to do ???????????
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You know my answer: get the cheap stuff and forget about the ZDDP scare !
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Better safe then sorry, a low millage worn out engine is a sad thing.You could be right but I sleep better with more Zink in my oil.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| [GMCnet] Subject: Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163871 is a reply to message #163849] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 15:01 |
George B.
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 1
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Ok what did you start Miguel?
I notice Edelbrock now sells both a conventional and synthetic zinc-enhanced
oil for flat tappet engines. Anyone have any experience with these?
<http://store.edelbrock.com/lubricants.aspx>
http://store.edelbrock.com/lubricants.aspx
> MIGUEL MENDEZ wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 10:43
> > Mobil 1 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 26.99 gal, walmart
> >
> > rotela t truck oil, full syn 5w40, 21.99 gal, walmart
> >
> > delo 400 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 19.98 gal, walmart
> >
> >
> >
> > hmmmm, what to do ???????????
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George Butts
Las Vegas Nevada
73 "Custom 26' Q" & 76 23' Birchaven
71 Honda 600 Coupe & 01 Tracker Toads
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| Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163872 is a reply to message #163849] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 15:15 |
MIGUEL MENDEZ
Messages: 179
Registered: August 2004
Location: Montclair, California
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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hmmmm, well lets see, Mellings cams, lifters and rocker arms, in the cam pakage, it states to use rotela t, dello 400 or delvac, because they have more than enough zink.
i have been using dello 400 here for years and even still today, and i have as of yet had any valve train problems, i really think this zink thing is really over kill, like the 3000 mile oil change, good god, i do mine at 5000 min and 7000 max, and stll have not had a problem.
in our trucking business, oil has to have enough zinc, a 14l diesel motor cost way to much, and i know many truck driver who would be very upset to find out there heads went bad due to low zinc ???
Miguel
1978 Royale Pain in the %$@, side bath w/ a 403 that i love.
GMC name : The other woman
http://www.mgmgmc.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Subject: Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163876 is a reply to message #163871] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 15:20 |
Gary Worobec
Messages: 867
Registered: May 2005
Karma: -1
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I've been using an additive from Schnieder Cams in San Diego that SteveF
turned me on to.
http://tinyurl.com/77klol6
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "GEORGE BUTTS" <george.b21@verizon.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:01 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Subject: Re: Oil WARS ( again)
> Ok what did you start Miguel?
>
>
>
> I notice Edelbrock now sells both a conventional and synthetic
> zinc-enhanced
> oil for flat tappet engines. Anyone have any experience with these?
> <http://store.edelbrock.com/lubricants.aspx>
> http://store.edelbrock.com/lubricants.aspx
>
>
>
>
>
>> MIGUEL MENDEZ wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 10:43
>
>> > Mobil 1 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 26.99 gal, walmart
>
>> >
>
>> > rotela t truck oil, full syn 5w40, 21.99 gal, walmart
>
>> >
>
>> > delo 400 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 19.98 gal, walmart
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> > hmmmm, what to do ???????????
>
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Subject: Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163877 is a reply to message #163876] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 15:44 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Same here I use the Schneider Cam stuff.
Mobil One oil.
Flat lifters, Jim B "Comp Cam" cam shaft and roller rockers.
Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Worobec" <gtw5@earthlink.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 13:20
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Subject: Re: Oil WARS ( again)
> I've been using an additive from Schnieder Cams in San Diego that SteveF
> turned me on to.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/77klol6
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary and Joanne Worobec
> 1973 GMC Glacier
> Anza, CA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "GEORGE BUTTS" <george.b21@verizon.net>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:01 PM
> Subject: [GMCnet] Subject: Re: Oil WARS ( again)
>
>
>> Ok what did you start Miguel?
>>
>>
>>
>> I notice Edelbrock now sells both a conventional and synthetic
>> zinc-enhanced
>> oil for flat tappet engines. Anyone have any experience with these?
>> <http://store.edelbrock.com/lubricants.aspx>
>> http://store.edelbrock.com/lubricants.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> MIGUEL MENDEZ wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 10:43
>>
>>> > Mobil 1 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 26.99 gal, walmart
>>
>>> >
>>
>>> > rotela t truck oil, full syn 5w40, 21.99 gal, walmart
>>
>>> >
>>
>>> > delo 400 truck oil, full syn 5w40, 19.98 gal, walmart
>>
>>> >
>>
>>> >
>>
>>> >
>>
>>> > hmmmm, what to do ???????????
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163878 is a reply to message #163874] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 15:50 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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| MIGUEL MENDEZ wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 15:17 |
been using 5 w 40 for years in my gmc, and boy, it gets hot here, the 5 w is for start up, then as it gets hot, the oil thickens as needed, 5 w 40 syn works just fine
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Sort of. Multi-vis oils don't thicken, they just resist thinning out as they heat up (up to a certain point). 5W oil is not really thick enough for a 70's big block in the California sun.
My OM says:
RECOMMENDED SAE VISCOSITY
Single grade oils are preferred, however, multigrades such as SAE 10W-30 or 10W-40 are also acceptable.
SAE 5W-20 oils are not recommended for sustained high speed driving.
SAE 5W-30 oils (if available) may be used if extreme low temperatures are anticipated.
The chart on P 75 indicates that 10W30 should be good from -10F to 120F.
Not too many people use their GMCs when/where it is cold enough to use 5W grade oils. When it gets that cold, they usually store them until the weather warms up.
The Olds engines are pretty tough and can take a certain amount of out-of-spec operation. Whatever works for you and yours. Maybe you can go a little farther on a gallon of gas with it.
[Updated on: Thu, 22 March 2012 15:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163880 is a reply to message #163872] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 16:16 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| MIGUEL MENDEZ wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 14:15 |
hmmmm, well lets see, Mellings cams, lifters and rocker arms, in the cam pakage, it states to use rotela t, dello 400 or delvac, because they have more than enough zink.
i have been using dello 400 here for years and even still today, and i have as of yet had any valve train problems, i really think this zink thing is really over kill, like the 3000 mile oil change, good god, i do mine at 5000 min and 7000 max, and stll have not had a problem.
in our trucking business, oil has to have enough zinc, a 14l diesel motor cost way to much, and i know many truck driver who would be very upset to find out there heads went bad due to low zinc ???
|
We have 100,000 trucks on the road, some still with flat tappets. We run the same oil in everything no matter where they are and how old they are. Many have well over 200,000 miles and never had a low zinc attack.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil WARS ( again) [message #163895 is a reply to message #163894] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 19:40 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Its more about new or re-built engines that do not have roller rockers.
Howard
Alpine CA""
Exactly--that's how it started and quickly was proclaimed to be an issue for all engines. Once the cam is broken in, there is no need.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Oil WARS ( again) [message #163896 is a reply to message #163894] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 19:41 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""What oil does U-HAUL use?
>
> Hal Kading 77 Kingsley 455 Las Cruces NM
""
I double check tomorrow since I think we may have just switched to recycled oil.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163897 is a reply to message #163849] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 19:45 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Howard, the "zinc" is not to protect the non-roller rockers but to protect the interface between the cam lobe and a "flat" tappet lifter. Other engines with overhead cams and a wiping action between the cam and rocker may have the same issue like the engines in Datsun 240Zs. I don't know if there is more than 1 Smokey Yunick book, but in the one I read a long time ago Smokey talked about the problem "breaking in" race engines with flat tappets. I've seen the problem on a Datsun 1200. I am of the opinion that with current oil in the 5w20, 5w30 maybe 10w30 grades, that are a grade recommended for a new car, that these oils have way reduced ZDDP and without additives will probably wipe out or start to wipe out cam lobes during the recommended 20 minute break in of a brand new cam. Lots of people have experienced this with stock type cams and flat tappetts. It "seems" a used engine where the cam lobe and lifters have lots of time dealing with each other that the reduced ZDDP MAY NOT be detrimental. NOTE "MAY NOT"
DAVE KING
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163948 is a reply to message #163887] |
Fri, 23 March 2012 10:04 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Hal Kading wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 16:43 |
Bob,
"We have 100,000 trucks on the road, some still with flat tappets. We run the same oil in everything no matter where they are and how old they are. Many have well over 200,000 miles and never had a low zinc attack."
What oil does U-HAUL use?
Hal Kading 77 Kingsley 455 Las Cruces NM
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It looks like we are currently using Pennzoil 5W20 in our fleet. Remember that when we buy oil we look at the basic specs and don't really have any loyalty to a particular brand. If it meets the specs, we buy on price and service. This changes from year to year when we contract in bulk. I did learn that we don't have many flat tappet units in service anymore as we continue to turn over the fleet. By not many, I mean 5 to 10 thousand. The tough part comes when we have new vehicles still under warranty and we need to commonize requirements from different manufacturers. A key consideration in viscosity specification these days is fuel economy and how the vehicle was certified--not necessarily just durability. Obviously, we'll err towards durability.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163950 is a reply to message #163887] |
Fri, 23 March 2012 10:06 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Hal Kading wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 16:43 |
Bob,
"We have 100,000 trucks on the road, some still with flat tappets. We run the same oil in everything no matter where they are and how old they are. Many have well over 200,000 miles and never had a low zinc attack."
What oil does U-HAUL use?
Hal Kading 77 Kingsley 455 Las Cruces NM
|
It looks like we are currently using Pennzoil 5W20 in our fleet. Remember that when we buy oil we look at the basic specs and don't really have any loyalty to a particular brand. If it meets the specs, we buy on price and service. This changes from year to year when we contract in bulk. I did learn that we don't have many flat tappet units in service anymore as we continue to turn over the fleet. By not many, I mean 5 to 10 thousand. The tough part comes when we have new vehicles still under warranty and we need to commonize requirements from different manufacturers. A key consideration in viscosity specification these days is fuel economy and how the vehicle was certified--not necessarily just durability. Obviously, we'll err towards durability.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Oil WARS ( again) [message #163958 is a reply to message #163849] |
Fri, 23 March 2012 10:51 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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OK, Time for the dynolab rat to post...
The truth about oil is that the since lubrication is about sixth on the list of what lube oil has to do in the engine, cold viscosity is just not all that important. Personally, because I have seen too much trouble from "shear down" of the viscosity improvers that I like to run a 10w as a minimum, but I am paranoid. Those additives are better today than they were even ten years ago. That is why they can produce a 0w oil and stay in business. I also know that the winter part indicates that the weight of the base stock is less. So, a 10w used to have a base stock that is about 7.
As to the ZDDP issue. Yes, the EP shear capability is most important during break-in. But it really is only deadly to engines with hydraulic lash adjusters. If a valve train has lash (slack) in it, the lube oil can/will build in that lash and the scuffing of the tappet will not occur. Except for piston port two strokes, scuff of any kind is very rare in a broken-in engine. The break-in run will have refinished all of the critical surfaces so all of the ragged artifacts of the manufacturing process will have been dealt with.
During the years I did silly racing things, I got to be really paranoid about lube oil. With the pressure loads on all the components, it became a serious issue. In that time, I learned about EP additives and started using MoS2. It, like anything else has its problems, but the biggest is cost. As expensive as it is, it is still cheaper than an major overhaul.
We are coming into Fort Wayne and I have to navigate now.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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