Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » paint sticking problem ???
| paint sticking problem ??? [message #163808] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 00:15  |
glacierfl
Messages: 444
Registered: June 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hello all,
I am having a problem with spraying the toll windows..
I cleaned the windows to bare metal, and then used a thinner to wipe any grease off the metal frame parts. Next using an etching primer allowing to dry for several days. Lastly using a black enamel spray. Leaving to dry for several days, i find i can easily scratch the paint right off !!!!. I have spent hours stripping the old paint off, cleaning, etc and i am getting nowhere on this. HELP why is this happening. The paint i am using is indicated to be correct for the task, for use on alum metalwork. The top coat is also correct for the undercoat. The undercoat is sticking with no problem. Once the black enamel is applied it seems to come off a little too easy, along with the black top layer ????
cheers and beers
Steve & Debbie
Monticello, FL
77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
EX G4WDT
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| Re: [GMCnet] paint sticking problem ??? [message #163809 is a reply to message #163808] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 00:48  |
peter bailey
Messages: 367
Registered: March 2009
Location: Gawler, South Australia
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Steve,
I spent years experimenting with different brands of etch for aluminium and
once I would find one that worked it would not be long and it would be
unobtainable so I would go through the process all over again. My use was
for aluminium sign extrusion and signs. The customers wanted colours and not
the anodised colours, the extrusions in a lot of cases had engraved plates
which were continually slid in and out of the extrusion (Door nameplates for
offices) the colour had to withstand this abuse. It was always the etch that
would not hold to the aluminium but there is, as I had found some good
products out there that will work but you need to be informed by someone who
has been through the process like myself. I can not give you a product name
to use that I know of as it would not be available in the USA. The American
POR may well have a product that would be suitable. Check to see if your
etch scratches off easily if not then you need to look at an undercoat that
will adhere to the etch and is suitable for your top coat.
Peter Bailey
from Ozy (Aussie)
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve & debbie" <zzdebz@yahoo.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:45 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] paint sticking problem ???
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am having a problem with spraying the toll windows..
> I cleaned the windows to bare metal, and then used a thinner to wipe any
> grease off the metal frame parts. Next using an etching primer allowing to
> dry for several days. Lastly using a black enamel spray. Leaving to dry
> for several days, i find i can easily scratch the paint right off !!!!. I
> have spent hours stripping the old paint off, cleaning, etc and i am
> getting nowhere on this. HELP why is this happening. The paint i am using
> is indicated to be correct for the task, for use on alum metalwork. The
> top coat is also correct for the undercoat. The undercoat is sticking with
> no problem. Once the black enamel is applied it seems to come off a little
> too easy, along with the black top layer ????
>
> cheers and beers
> --
> Steve & Debbie
> Monticello, FL
> 77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
> EX G4WDT
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4885 - Release Date: 03/21/12
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] paint sticking problem ??? [message #163810 is a reply to message #163808] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 00:49 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Steve, there are two adhesion considerations when applying paint. One is
chemical ( the compatability between the various primers, solvents, top
coats etc.) and the other is mechanical. How smooth the surface of the
underlying coating is when applying the next subsequent coating. If you
allowed the etching primer to set for several days, and did not scuff the
surface with fine scotchbrite or 400 grit paper followed by thorough
chemical cleaning with the correct stuff, adhesion is adversely affected.
Try to tell if the coatings are separating from the metal frames, or
between layers of materials. If there was any silicone sealer in the area
of the windows, or silicone containing waxes or polishes, that could be a
cause. There are prep solvents that help to minimize the effects of
silicone. I hate it when that kind of stuff rears it's ugly head, it really
messes with my attitude regarding trying to do the best job possible.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 10:15 PM, steve & debbie <zzdebz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am having a problem with spraying the toll windows..
> I cleaned the windows to bare metal, and then used a thinner to wipe any
> grease off the metal frame parts. Next using an etching primer allowing to
> dry for several days. Lastly using a black enamel spray. Leaving to dry for
> several days, i find i can easily scratch the paint right off !!!!. I have
> spent hours stripping the old paint off, cleaning, etc and i am getting
> nowhere on this. HELP why is this happening. The paint i am using is
> indicated to be correct for the task, for use on alum metalwork. The top
> coat is also correct for the undercoat. The undercoat is sticking with no
> problem. Once the black enamel is applied it seems to come off a little too
> easy, along with the black top layer ????
>
> cheers and beers
> --
> Steve & Debbie
> Monticello, FL
> 77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
> EX G4WDT
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] paint sticking problem ??? [message #163811 is a reply to message #163810] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 01:17 |
glacierfl
Messages: 444
Registered: June 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hello thank you for your replies on this matter. Both the etching primer and the black enamel appear to be coming off.
I assume because there is no primer left on the alum, that it is the primer thats casusing the problem???
i did not know that you can scuff the etching primer, i thought you just sprayed it on!!!.
I am getting rather frustrated on this matter, all i want is a nice looking paint job, that lasts...
After spending some $80, on spray cans, paint stripper etc, i am getting ready to get the frames powder coated or something else, but i do not like to give up that easily !!!!!!!
cheers and beers
Steve & Debbie
Monticello, FL
77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
EX G4WDT
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| Re: [GMCnet] paint sticking problem ??? [message #163815 is a reply to message #163808] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 06:28 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Steve,
The simplest fix is to use 400 grit to clean up the frames, then use SEM
trim paint. Self etching. My windows were done in '05 and they still look
like new. I have used a lot of that stuff since.
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 10:15 PM, steve & debbie <zzdebz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am having a problem with spraying the toll windows..
> I cleaned the windows to bare metal, and then used a thinner to wipe any
> grease off the metal frame parts. Next using an etching primer allowing to
> dry for several days. Lastly using a black enamel spray. Leaving to dry for
> several days, i find i can easily scratch the paint right off !!!!. I have
> spent hours stripping the old paint off, cleaning, etc and i am getting
> nowhere on this. HELP why is this happening. The paint i am using is
> indicated to be correct for the task, for use on alum metalwork. The top
> coat is also correct for the undercoat. The undercoat is sticking with no
> problem. Once the black enamel is applied it seems to come off a little too
> easy, along with the black top layer ????
>
> cheers and beers
> --
> Steve & Debbie
> Monticello, FL
> 77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
> EX G4WDT
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Fathom the hypocrisy of a nation where every citizen must prove they have
health insurance......but not everyone has to prove they're a citizen.
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] paint sticking problem ??? [message #163831 is a reply to message #163815] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 09:14 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I agree with Steve F. If you are not taking the windows out and apart I would prep with wet sanding paper, clean with detergent based cleaner and follow with a chemical cleaner such as DX330(ppg product). Etch primers work very well when properly applied but proper application is not simple. If your film thickness is too thin the film fails. If your film thickness is too thick then the film delaminates from its self. If the grit used to rough the metal is too rough the etch primer can fail. Use a decent automotive grade spray epoxy primer(available in black) and finish with SEM trim paint. Make sure the paint is warm and well mixed and the window frames are warm as well. If the frames are out and apart I would visit the powder coater.
jwid
Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] paint sticking problem ??? [message #163836 is a reply to message #163809] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 09:41 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The American POR may well have a product that would be suitable
If you are referring to POR15, on steel that is some amazing stuff.
It is supposed to adhere to most anything metal.
In some cases they say to use a cleaner then a metal prep with POR15 next. It is pretty amazing, POR15 does not like to come off, and it especially likes to attach to skin. And clothes, forget it.
When I did my window frames, I recall fine sanding them then spraying Rustoleum on. My frames had all the OEM black worn away, the windows looked silver and of course I had the curse of the PO Silicone Sealant cure. (  ) But once I had the Silicone Sealant off and it was rough sanded, the paint went on easily and has been there since 2007 with very little problems. I haven't tried to dig my fingernail into the paint since I didn't think it would ever see that kind of treatment but I was once told that to test a good spray paint job to use your finger nail and apply pressure and run over the paint. A good paint job will not flake. I TOOK THEIR WORD FOR IT.
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
[Updated on: Thu, 22 March 2012 09:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] paint sticking problem ??? [message #163864 is a reply to message #163836] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 13:18 |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 2
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| Larry C wrote on Thu, 22 March 2012 07:41 |
The American POR may well have a product that would be suitable
If you are referring to POR15, on steel that is some amazing stuff.
It is supposed to adhere to most anything metal.
In some cases they say to use a cleaner then a metal prep with POR15 next. It is pretty amazing, POR15 does not like to come off, and it especially likes to attach to skin. And clothes, forget it.
When I did my window frames, I recall fine sanding them then spraying Rustoleum on. My frames had all the OEM black worn away, the windows looked silver and of course I had the curse of the PO Silicone Sealant cure. ( ) But once I had the Silicone Sealant off and it was rough sanded, the paint went on easily and has been there since 2007 with very little problems. I haven't tried to dig my fingernail into the paint since I didn't think it would ever see that kind of treatment but I was once told that to test a good spray paint job to use your finger nail and apply pressure and run over the paint. A good paint job will not flake. I TOOK THEIR WORD FOR IT.
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I would be very hesitant about using POR15 on this. First, it has no UV protectant so it could change color. Plus it comes out of the can pretty thin and wicks into places you may not want and then is a bear to remove (if even possible). It could run down and block your window drains, leading to another problem.
I am still fighting this battle. I tried the SEM with a full prep job taking my time and it still failed.
This was a Service Letter GM came out with in the early production run, so it's not a new problem.
Maybe you strip them and polish with Flitz or Met-All to a mirror finish. But don't clear coat them afterward unless you need a reminder for the definition of insanity!
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
[Updated on: Thu, 22 March 2012 13:19] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: paint sticking problem ??? [message #163886 is a reply to message #163808] |
Thu, 22 March 2012 17:28 |
glacierfl
Messages: 444
Registered: June 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hello,
Thanks guys some ideas to be getting on with. I did the fingernail test and it scrapes off right down to the metal surface. Hellfire, hours of work wasted. An option is powder coating, has anyone done this, and were there any problems????.
Still not sure on the best route to follow here. I guess one would need to be careful where the frame fits togeather, as assembly of the frame could chip the powder coating off ???
Are there any other processes that would work on alum for a good finish???.
cheers and beers
Steve & Debbie
Monticello, FL
77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
EX G4WDT
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| Re: [GMCnet] paint sticking problem ??? [message #163920 is a reply to message #163864] |
Fri, 23 March 2012 02:21 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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I would be very hesitant about using POR15 on this. First, it has no UV protectant so it could change color.
CORRECT... the POR15 must be painted over unless you get the cover paint POR15. I find that the cover paints have limited colors so I use Rustoleum over the POR15 on metal to protect from or to stop rust.
I did not use POR15 on the window frames, partly because I did not have a problem after sanding the frame and painting the Rustoleum.
CORRECT... the POR15 has a consistancy almost of water and runs about as fast until it starts to cure. POR15 has its places and uses...
I'm not so sure the window frames would qualify for this type of protection.
Off topic, sort of...
I used the POR15 on a steel, weathered brush guard on my 1986 pickup truck. Before the POR15 was completely cured, about in the sticky stage, I painted the brush guard again with Rustoleum in the color of my choice... It turned out great. The bumperguard is 25 years old and looks like new... go figure.
I did the same thing on the passenger door wing window frame on the pickup, it supposed to be semi gloss black but it had weathered and began to show signs of rust. I POR15 the wing frame and just about when the POR15 was sticky I used the Rustoleum... It also looks original.
Mind that I used the POR15 ont these two items because they were soft steel, not aluminum, and needed to be sealed to stop any further rust. Further sealing with Rustoleum sealed from moisture attacking the metal and protects from UV rays...
Funny what we need to learn in these projects.
Gatsbys' CRUISER 08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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