Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » HEI Distributor (Is conversion warranted)
| HEI Distributor [message #163586] |
Mon, 19 March 2012 23:01  |
Chico_Mon
Messages: 23
Registered: December 2011
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Karma: 0
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If one feels comfortable with adjusting points, is there a value in making the conversion? Pros and cons appreciated. Regards from Racine, Wisconsin
1974 Eleganza mfg in late 73
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163593 is a reply to message #163586] |
Mon, 19 March 2012 23:37  |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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Raymond,
To me the pro of HEI is better spark, no point adjustment because the rubbing block is wearing down and dowell (timing) has changed.
The con, other then carry modules, I can't think of any.
If you fear the HEI, carry the point dist. to exchange with if you have a problem. Or till you gain the confidence of the HEI.
My 2 cents.
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163600 is a reply to message #163586] |
Tue, 20 March 2012 02:06 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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| Chico_Mon wrote on Mon, 19 March 2012 23:01 |
If one feels comfortable with adjusting points, is there a value in making the conversion? Pros and cons appreciated. Regards from Racine, Wisconsin
1974 Eleganza mfg in late 73
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Install a Pertronics module. It eliminates the points. Easy job. You won't need the larger distributor which won't fit next to your air cleaner. You can also go all the way to "don't worry about it" and have Dick Paterson, Springfield Ignition, rebuild the dizzy for you. This will make sure the vac advance and centrifugal advance are correctly set for the GMC motorhome.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163610 is a reply to message #163586] |
Tue, 20 March 2012 08:26 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Chico_Mon wrote on Tue, 20 March 2012 00:01 |
If one feels comfortable with adjusting points, is there a value in making the conversion? Pros and cons appreciated. Regards from Racine, Wisconsin
1974 Eleganza mfg in late 73
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Chico,
As comfortable as you might be with points (as am I), there are distinct advantages to installing the Pertronix replacement. Points wear and continually come out of adjustment. The Pertronix install is simple and (so far) proved to be very reliable. To date, I actually know of no confirmed failures of one their units. Can I tell you how many times I have had to mess with points on the road?
If you want it real good, put in the Pertronix, then get an aftermarket CDI box. If you want to put up with replacing the wires, then get some Gonzo-Mama wires and open the plugs up to 0.045~0.060 and you will reduce the misfire by some (~1/2 MPG).
Here is the best part. You haven't changed anything that matters. If one of those fancy parts goes out (Like my just out of warranty MSD box), you can just put it back the way it was. After all, you kept the old points and parts in a jar, the coil is still original but you will have to hammer the plugs back to 0.030 if you lose the CDI. If you are paranoid as I am, this is a good way to have it.
To me, this had advantages. You don't have to try to locate another air filter housing or do a hammer job on the one you have. I worked with the HEI early on and grew to distrust them.
Oh, and it is still a PITA to set 8°BTDC @ 1100RPM (unless you want to set 4 @ 650).
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163637 is a reply to message #163616] |
Tue, 20 March 2012 14:20 |
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Dick Patterson has the "Lobe sensing" dist. with the smaller cap and it fits well on my '73. I guess similar to Petronix. I also bought his coil and plug wires. All some expense, but I think worth it. I kept my old distributor and send him a spare I had, so there was no core charge. JMHO.
geo groth '73 260 Sequoia
Carson City Nevada 89703
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163642 is a reply to message #163586] |
Tue, 20 March 2012 15:36 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I put a new Pertronix in my Delco distib in a 69 Buick GS400. Car would not start this year due to bad condensor. Pertronix fixed that as it eliminates points and cond. Runs much smoother at idle due to rock solid signal to the OEM coil. Keep the old points, cond and ground wire if you become disabled you could go back to analogue. The new Pertronix did not require a chopper wheel or any magnets??? I think it knows of the passing advance mechanism for signal. This is what I would do in your GMC. As far as my GMC its a 77 w HEI so I'm lucky. No problems as long as you don't go by the original super wide gap spec on the plugs. I have to disagree on the Gonzo wires Matt. Bigger is not always better. I have been doing some research to reproduce some wires for Buicks with original print and appearance with improved quality etc. If you have ever seen the wires on some Toyota 4Runners they are super skinny. Hmmmm I thought. Most 8MM are good for 50KV to adjacent metal ground. Most conditions (unless you are running a turbo with extreme boost)have the plug discharge the coil way way below that voltage. The thicker the wire, the harder for the core to disipate heat and the shorter time they last. That's the short story. When I get the test data and failure modes I can share that scientific information. Just fits in with the "bigger (or in the case of ZDDP, a double dose), is not always better" axiom.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163645 is a reply to message #163616] |
Tue, 20 March 2012 17:51 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Chico_Mon wrote on Tue, 20 March 2012 10:47 |
Excellent recommendations! Thank you
For the 455 Engine are there part numbers or brands for the following?
Pertronix HEI Kit (part number?)
aftermarket CDI box (brand , yrs of mfg?)
Gonzo-Mama wires (brand & size?)
replace OEM coil with Pertronix SureFire?
regards from sunny Wisconsin
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Chico,
Pertronix is not HEI. It is a kit to replace the points with a Hall effect (magnetic transistor) device. They have two different kits for GM distributors for coach era. 1181 is very conventional and has a trigger ring. 1181LS is a lobe sensor. I have installed both. The LS is a simpler install, but it is more fussy about setup.
Aftermarket CDI, I have been using Delta Mark 10 for decades. That is fortunate because the company closed in the early 80's. there are lots of others still around. MSD is just one, Mallory has been in the business forever. Don't spend money on restrike or revlimit for the coach as it will just be a waste. Get to the Jegs or Summit online catalogs and learn what is out there. I lucked out, after the MSD 6200, I tripped across a Delta unit (NOS) but positive ground on E-bay. I got it for very little and converted it to negative ground by reversing two diodes and adding a third.
I have had good luck with Accel both in vehicles in dynoland. Don't take my word for it, work the web. Just do not put solid core wires with a CDI box. You will put out radios for a mile. The wires on your coach have undoubtedly been replaced once already and may be good enough. If you are going to wide gap the plugs, you might just do that before you buy wires. A short drive at night with the lid open will tell you if you need better wires. I had a neat light show.
If you go to CDI, the coil stays, but it becomes a pulse transformer and doesn't have to work very hard. I have had CDIs damage the tower of a stock coil, but I usually just replaced it with a good aftermarket - nothing special.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163655 is a reply to message #163586] |
Tue, 20 March 2012 19:04 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Once again great clarification from Matt. I just found that with the stock coil and the Pertronix, the engine seemed smoother in terms of not varrying at all in RPM at idle. Not High Energy per se but more precise control. You can also ger HO coils from them if need be. I too was suggesting the stock appearing retrofit of this unit as you don't have to change out the air cleaner to the 75 and up type. But, If your distrib is worn or has issues, a Dick Patterson HEI drop in may prove the best bet in the long run. You will have to run straight switched 12V to it though as you don't use the resistor wire with HEI, and use the HEI wire set.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] HEI Distributor [message #163656 is a reply to message #163655] |
Tue, 20 March 2012 19:08 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Dick Paterson will be glad to provide a Pertronix-equipped GMC-custom
distributor if you don't now have an HEI. That will avoid the need to
change or modify the air cleaner. Probably no performance penalty either.
Ken H.
On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:04 PM, John R. Lebetski wrote:
>
> ...But, If your distrib is worn or has issues, a Dick Patterson HEI drop
> in may prove the best bet in the long run...
>
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163688 is a reply to message #163645] |
Tue, 20 March 2012 23:07 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Matt Colie wrote on Tue, 20 March 2012 17:51 |
| Chico_Mon wrote on Tue, 20 March 2012 10:47 |
Excellent recommendations! Thank you
For the 455 Engine are there part numbers or brands for the following?
Pertronix HEI Kit (part number?)
aftermarket CDI box (brand , yrs of mfg?)
Gonzo-Mama wires (brand & size?)
replace OEM coil with Pertronix SureFire?
regards from sunny Wisconsin
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Chico,
Pertronix is not HEI. It is a kit to replace the points with a Hall effect (magnetic transistor) device. They have two different kits for GM distributors for coach era. 1181 is very conventional and has a trigger ring. 1181LS is a lobe sensor. I have installed both. The LS is a simpler install, but it is more fussy about setup.
Aftermarket CDI, I have been using Delta Mark 10 for decades. That is fortunate because the company closed in the early 80's. there are lots of others still around. MSD is just one, Mallory has been in the business forever. Don't spend money on restrike or revlimit for the coach as it will just be a waste. Get to the Jegs or Summit online catalogs and learn what is out there. I lucked out, after the MSD 6200, I tripped across a Delta unit (NOS) but positive ground on E-bay. I got it for very little and converted it to negative ground by reversing two diodes and adding a third.
I have had good luck with Accel both in vehicles in dynoland. Don't take my word for it, work the web. Just do not put solid core wires with a CDI box. You will put out radios for a mile. The wires on your coach have undoubtedly been replaced once already and may be good enough. If you are going to wide gap the plugs, you might just do that before you buy wires. A short drive at night with the lid open will tell you if you need better wires. I had a neat light show.
If you go to CDI, the coil stays, but it becomes a pulse transformer and doesn't have to work very hard. I have had CDIs damage the tower of a stock coil, but I usually just replaced it with a good aftermarket - nothing special.
Matt
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Boy that is a memory from the past. I use to sell the Dalta CDI in the 70's. I had one in my garage the last time I looked. The Delta and the Pertronix would make a reliable setup. The advent of OEM electronic ignitions like the HEIs killed Delta's market.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163755 is a reply to message #163593] |
Wed, 21 March 2012 15:11 |
PETEinLongBeach
Messages: 90
Registered: June 2007
Location: Long Beach, CA
Karma: 0
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Member |
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| Adrien G. wrote on Mon, 19 March 2012 21:37 |
Raymond,
To me the pro of HEI is better spark, no point adjustment because the rubbing block is wearing down and dowell (timing) has changed.
The con, other then carry modules, I can't think of any.
If you fear the HEI, carry the point dist. to exchange with if you have a problem. Or till you gain the confidence of the HEI.
|
I should know this already, but where does one find a spare HEI module? I would like to carry one in the coach...
Pete Smay
Long Beach, CA
1977 Kingsley
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163759 is a reply to message #163755] |
Wed, 21 March 2012 16:20 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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And, for those who like to roll their own. Jaycar (austrailian company) sells a kit so you can build your very own electronic ignition.
I built a kit CDI and installed it many moons ago. Really improved running and mileage.
Tom Phipps,
MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163788 is a reply to message #163586] |
Wed, 21 March 2012 20:38 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Pete, a number of people are of the opinion that ONLY GENUINE GM modules should be used. I'm not sure what one would ask for at the neighborhood GM dealership as they probably don't know what a GMC Motorhome is. Can someone chime in as to whether or not a GMCMH module is the same as the one for any mid 70s Oldsmobile ??
And something about the polarity or wiring is different for Olds and Chevy ???????
I guess I'll ask at the local GM Dealership for inner axle bolts for a 1978 GMC Motorhome and see what happens LOL.
DAVE KING
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163790 is a reply to message #163755] |
Wed, 21 March 2012 20:43 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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[
I should know this already, but where does one find a spare HEI module? I would like to carry one in the coach...[/quote]
If you are asking about the OEM HEI any auto parts will stock them. A good reason to go OEM, parts are available every ware. You could even get a five finger discount at your local Pick a Part if you can find an old older GM car or truck.(distributor with a vacuum advance) Any 4 wire GM module will work.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: HEI Distributor [message #163806 is a reply to message #163788] |
Wed, 21 March 2012 23:53 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I had two non AC Delco modules fail in 3 years. I installed an AC Delco one and have never had another problem. Get one from any auto parts store that sell AC Delco parts including: AC-direct.com
You need a 4 pin ignition module. To my knowledge all 4 pin GM modules were the same.
I believe the number was D1906
You can get them on Amazon for $28.00 plus shipping.
Or Rock Auto for around $37.00.
You best bet is to call Jim K. and ask if he handles AC Delco ignition modules.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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