Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Wireless air system
| [GMCnet] Wireless air system [message #160697] |
Fri, 17 February 2012 14:54  |
Gerald Work
Messages: 102
Registered: June 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I have quite a few miles on my wireless air system and think I can share some useful real life experience.
First, the chassis tales a few miles of driving before it settles in to where it will be going down the road and second, Weight change makes far less difference in rear ride height than you might expect. To check this for yourself, drain your water tank, set your coach to proper ride height and disconnect the auto ride height levers so only the amount of air in the bags controls ride height. Drive your coach five or so miles to properly settle the suspension. Measure ride height on both sides of your coach. Now, fill the water tank. Mine takes about 40 gallons of water and the tank is on the PS right aft of the rear wheels and inboard the width of the wheel housings. That will add about about 330 pounds of weight applied behind the rear wheels and biased to one side. Remeasure ride height and see how much of a change you see. Drive the coach about five miles and measure ride height on both sides of the coach again.
If you see a significant difference in ride height, then the auto levers are important for you. If there is little or no change in ride height then air pressure is all you need to know to establish md maintain proper ride height.
My experience? Not much measurable change so air pressure works just fine for me.
Next test. Try to measure the amount of weight it takes to cause your compressor to come on to adjust your ride height to compensate for the weight shift. One way to do that is to hook up your auto ride height levers again. Set to proper ride height. Get out of the coach and stand on the center of the back bumper. That will lever your weight as much as possible while stationary. Did your air compressor come on? No? Then the auto ride height can't see that "little" amount of weight shift, at least not while you are stationary. Have more friends join you on the back bumper until the compressor does come on. Now you will know how much weight shift is required on your coach before those auto ride height levers do the job you think they do, at least while you are stationary.
If you do these kinds of actual tests instead of speculating what they should do, you may find, as I have, that air pressure alone is a perfectly satisfactory way of setting and maintaining rear ride height on our coaches. The wireless air controller provides a really convenient way to do that.
Hope this helps.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed & hand crafted
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR
Http://jerrywork.com
----------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:44:09 -0500
From: Byron Songer <bsonger@songerconsulting.net>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Wireless Air System
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Message-ID: <CB63EE09.17156%bsonger@songerconsulting.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Rob,
Again, another well-put response covering all of the bases. The simple
answer is, however, that you set the ride height visually. To those of us
that are used to it, it works as an inexpensive replacement system.
As to how the GMC handles, I couldn't tell much difference as the road
conditions were never ideal except when driving from a garage or good
concrete parking area. However, when the rear is level with the front the
GMC doesn't handle well. When it's lower than the front everything is OK.
Since the fuel tanks are in the middle I suspect that the most sensitive
driver will notice a difference. Whereas the fresh water tank is in the
rear, whether it is full or empty will make the greatest difference.
Probably the greater thing to effect handling and feel is the difference
between single bag and bogies system where wheels are free to react to each
other dynamically and a replacement system that puts a vertical stabilizer
between two bags and restricts the dynamic interaction as originally
designed by engineers for the TZE -- IMHO.
--
Byron Songer
Louisville, KY
http://www.gmceast.com
------------------------
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Wireless air system [message #160732 is a reply to message #160697] |
Fri, 17 February 2012 21:58  |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jerry,
I agree 100% with what you've noted for YOUR coach.
Unfortunately there are a couple of problems with your recommendation.
The ride height valve lever is the mechanism that is moved to set the ride
height. way the ride height is set. If you remove them you will mess up the
setting when you reinstall them after setting is controlled by the position
the ride height control lever is If you remove the ride height control
levers
I would suggest to those of you who want to try Jerry's method that don't
have shut off valves on the bags DO NOT disconnect the ride height valve
levers if you do you will mess up the adjustment. Remove the link that
connects the , disconnect the links that connect the levers to the bogie
arms. If you disconnect the levers you will mess up the adjustment.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerald Work
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 2:54 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Wireless air system
I have quite a few miles on my wireless air system and think I can share
some useful real life experience.
First, the chassis tales a few miles of driving before it settles in to
where it will be going down the road and second, Weight change makes far
less difference in rear ride height than you might expect. To check this
for yourself, drain your water tank, set your coach to proper ride height
and disconnect the auto ride height levers so only the amount of air in the
bags controls ride height. Drive your coach five or so miles to properly
settle the suspension. Measure ride height on both sides of your coach.
Now, fill the water tank. Mine takes about 40 gallons of water and the tank
is on the PS right aft of the rear wheels and inboard the width of the wheel
housings. That will add about about 330 pounds of weight applied behind the
rear wheels and biased to one side. Remeasure ride height and see how much
of a change you see. Drive the coach about five miles and measure ride
height on both sides of the coach again.
If you see a significant difference in ride height, then the auto levers are
important for you. If there is little or no change in ride height then air
pressure is all you need to know to establish md maintain proper ride
height.
My experience? Not much measurable change so air pressure works just fine
for me.
Next test. Try to measure the amount of weight it takes to cause your
compressor to come on to adjust your ride height to compensate for the
weight shift. One way to do that is to hook up your auto ride height levers
again. Set to proper ride height. Get out of the coach and stand on the
center of the back bumper. That will lever your weight as much as possible
while stationary. Did your air compressor come on? No? Then the auto ride
height can't see that "little" amount of weight shift, at least not while
you are stationary. Have more friends join you on the back bumper until the
compressor does come on. Now you will know how much weight shift is
required on your coach before those auto ride height levers do the job you
think they do, at least while you are stationary.
If you do these kinds of actual tests instead of speculating what they
should do, you may find, as I have, that air pressure alone is a perfectly
satisfactory way of setting and maintaining rear ride height on our coaches.
The wireless air controller provides a really convenient way to do that.
Hope this helps.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed & hand crafted
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR
Http://jerrywork.com
----------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:44:09 -0500
From: Byron Songer <bsonger@songerconsulting.net>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Wireless Air System
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Message-ID: <CB63EE09.17156%bsonger@songerconsulting.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Rob,
Again, another well-put response covering all of the bases. The simple
answer is, however, that you set the ride height visually. To those of us
that are used to it, it works as an inexpensive replacement system.
As to how the GMC handles, I couldn't tell much difference as the road
conditions were never ideal except when driving from a garage or good
concrete parking area. However, when the rear is level with the front the
GMC doesn't handle well. When it's lower than the front everything is OK.
Since the fuel tanks are in the middle I suspect that the most sensitive
driver will notice a difference. Whereas the fresh water tank is in the
rear, whether it is full or empty will make the greatest difference.
Probably the greater thing to effect handling and feel is the difference
between single bag and bogies system where wheels are free to react to each
other dynamically and a replacement system that puts a vertical stabilizer
between two bags and restricts the dynamic interaction as originally
designed by engineers for the TZE -- IMHO.
--
Byron Songer
Louisville, KY
http://www.gmceast.com
------------------------
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Wireless air system [message #160743 is a reply to message #160697] |
Fri, 17 February 2012 23:19 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Oops,
Somehow the message below got sent before I was finished.
I'll try again.
Jerry,
I am not questioning what you have stated regarding YOUR coach.
However, there are a couple of things that people should consider regarding
your recommendations.
The ride height valve arm is the mechanism that is adjusted to set the ride
height (Note the slot in the arm as seen in MM X-7525 Pg. 4-22 Figure 49 -
Height Control Valve - Item 23 Arm). If you remove it you will mess up the
setting when you reinstall it. I can tell you it is a PITA to get it right
again (which is why Dave Lenzi and Ken Henderson make adjustable links). I
would suggest to those of you who want to try Jerry's method that don't have
shut off valves on the bags. Remove the end of the link that connects the
ride height valve levers to the bogie arms.
This paragraph relates to the PowerLevel system. The system pump is set to
shut off at 140 psi and come on at around 100 psi (those numbers are from
memory and may not be quite right). The pressure in Double Trouble's bags
runs around 90 psi. The pressure in the tank will feed the bags and the pump
will not come on until the pressure in the tank drops below 100 psi. I have
no idea how much weight one would have to add to reduce the air pressure in
the tank to 100 psi.
The rear suspension has been bouncing around in my mind today and I realized
something. I think one of the reasons GMC installed the automatic ride
height system was because telling prospective customers that they had to
check and adjust how high the rear end was and adjust the amount of air
pressure to the air bags would have gone over like a lead balloon!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:59 PM
To: 'gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org'
Subject: RE: [GMCnet] Wireless air system
Jerry,
Unfortunately there are a couple of problems with your recommendation.
The ride height valve lever (arm) is the mechanism that is adjusted to set
the rear ride height. If you remove them you will have to get them back in
exactly the same spot they were when you removed them or the ride height
will be affected. I've done this and it's a PITA.
I would suggest to those of you who want to try Jerry's method (that don't
have shut off valves on the bags) DO NOT disconnect the ride height valve
levers (arms) remove the link that connects the levers (arms) to the bogie
arms.
BTW Dave Lenzi and Ken Henderson make adjustable links that make adjusting
the rear ride height child's play.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerald Work
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 2:54 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Wireless air system
I have quite a few miles on my wireless air system and think I can share
some useful real life experience.
First, the chassis tales a few miles of driving before it settles in to
where it will be going down the road and second, Weight change makes far
less difference in rear ride height than you might expect. To check this
for yourself, drain your water tank, set your coach to proper ride height
and disconnect the auto ride height levers so only the amount of air in the
bags controls ride height. Drive your coach five or so miles to properly
settle the suspension. Measure ride height on both sides of your coach.
Now, fill the water tank. Mine takes about 40 gallons of water and the tank
is on the PS right aft of the rear wheels and inboard the width of the wheel
housings. That will add about about 330 pounds of weight applied behind the
rear wheels and biased to one side. Remeasure ride height and see how much
of a change you see. Drive the coach about five miles and measure ride
height on both sides of the coach again.
If you see a significant difference in ride height, then the auto levers are
important for you. If there is little or no change in ride height then air
pressure is all you need to know to establish md maintain proper ride
height.
My experience? Not much measurable change so air pressure works just fine
for me.
Next test. Try to measure the amount of weight it takes to cause your
compressor to come on to adjust your ride height to compensate for the
weight shift. One way to do that is to hook up your auto ride height levers
again. Set to proper ride height. Get out of the coach and stand on the
center of the back bumper. That will lever your weight as much as possible
while stationary. Did your air compressor come on? No? Then the auto ride
height can't see that "little" amount of weight shift, at least not while
you are stationary. Have more friends join you on the back bumper until the
compressor does come on. Now you will know how much weight shift is
required on your coach before those auto ride height levers do the job you
think they do, at least while you are stationary.
If you do these kinds of actual tests instead of speculating what they
should do, you may find, as I have, that air pressure alone is a perfectly
satisfactory way of setting and maintaining rear ride height on our coaches.
The wireless air controller provides a really convenient way to do that.
Hope this helps.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed & hand crafted
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR
Http://jerrywork.com
----------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:44:09 -0500
From: Byron Songer <bsonger@songerconsulting.net>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Wireless Air System
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Message-ID: <CB63EE09.17156%bsonger@songerconsulting.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Rob,
Again, another well-put response covering all of the bases. The simple
answer is, however, that you set the ride height visually. To those of us
that are used to it, it works as an inexpensive replacement system.
As to how the GMC handles, I couldn't tell much difference as the road
conditions were never ideal except when driving from a garage or good
concrete parking area. However, when the rear is level with the front the
GMC doesn't handle well. When it's lower than the front everything is OK.
Since the fuel tanks are in the middle I suspect that the most sensitive
driver will notice a difference. Whereas the fresh water tank is in the
rear, whether it is full or empty will make the greatest difference.
Probably the greater thing to effect handling and feel is the difference
between single bag and bogies system where wheels are free to react to each
other dynamically and a replacement system that puts a vertical stabilizer
between two bags and restricts the dynamic interaction as originally
designed by engineers for the TZE -- IMHO.
--
Byron Songer
Louisville, KY
http://www.gmceast.com
------------------------
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Wireless air system [message #160786 is a reply to message #160743] |
Sat, 18 February 2012 10:54 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"" I think one of the reasons GMC installed the automatic ride
height system was because telling prospective customers that they had to
check and adjust how high the rear end was and adjust the amount of air
pressure to the air bags would have gone over like a lead balloon!
Regards,
Rob M.
""
Rob, I think there are several reasons GM opted for auto leveling. One was the need for all coaches built to sit at a factory height that would guarantee headlight aim, consistant bumper heights, and correct trim heights for handling purposes. With the levleing valves adjusted at time of manufacture, all coaches would run where GM designed them to be. Secondly, since one feature allowed self leveling while camping, the extra cost to make it self leveling was not that great and could be considered a great marketing feature. Lastly, I don't think it was reasonable to expect customers to figure out at what pressure their individual coach would ride at the correct trim. Most of us here are enthusiasts, but the 12000 people that bought these were just like most car buyers and not all that technically astute.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Wireless air system [message #160794 is a reply to message #160786] |
Sat, 18 February 2012 11:54 |
|
|
I enjoyed "auto leveling" on the two Olds Silhouettes I owned. A
difference of 100 pounds in the rear seat would make activate the system
on most days. Of course, when hooking up a trailer it would come on until
level.
Yes, it was a great system. Just a tad expensive when it came to replacing
components.
Byron
-----Original Message-----
Organization: GMCnet
Reply-To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 10:54:11 -0600
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Wireless air system
>
>
>"" I think one of the reasons GMC installed the automatic ride
>height system was because telling prospective customers that they had to
>check and adjust how high the rear end was and adjust the amount of air
>pressure to the air bags would have gone over like a lead balloon!
>
>Regards,
>Rob M.
>
>
>""
>
>Rob, I think there are several reasons GM opted for auto leveling. One
>was the need for all coaches built to sit at a factory height that would
>guarantee headlight aim, consistant bumper heights, and correct trim
>heights for handling purposes. With the levleing valves adjusted at time
>of manufacture, all coaches would run where GM designed them to be.
>Secondly, since one feature allowed self leveling while camping, the
>extra cost to make it self leveling was not that great and could be
>considered a great marketing feature. Lastly, I don't think it was
>reasonable to expect customers to figure out at what pressure their
>individual coach would ride at the correct trim. Most of us here are
>enthusiasts, but the 12000 people that bought these were just like most
>car buyers and not all that technically astute.
>--
>Bob de Kruyff
>78 Eleganza
>Chandler, AZ
>_______________________________________________
>GMCnet mailing list
>Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Wireless air system [message #160798 is a reply to message #160743] |
Sat, 18 February 2012 12:30 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| Robert Mueller wrote on Sat, 18 February 2012 00:19 |
<snip>
The rear suspension has been bouncing around in my mind today and I realized something. I think one of the reasons GMC installed the automatic ride height system was because telling prospective customers that they had to check and adjust how high the rear end was and adjust the amount of air pressure to the air bags would have gone over like a lead balloon!
<snip>
Regards,
Rob M.
|
Rob,
As a refugee from an early time, I can pass along some information.
Motorhomes of that day were crude devices. Most all (with very few low volume exceptions) were a box screwed to a truck chassis. It was well known in the day that the school bus like ride was what you got. Sleeping underway in the back of a period beast was simply not going to happen as one was periodically tossed into the air to be retrieved as some point down the road. A very few very high end coaches (like Cabana and Superior Executive)had driver adjustable airsprings. While these were common on over the road coaches, they found no place among the general population. So, the only way to accommodate the changing weight was to use stiff springs. Hence, the pitch and catch ride. Remember, some of these coaches did not even have independent front suspension. Disk Brakes Surely you Jest..
Our coaches were also built to be travelers, not merely self-powered camping trailers as most were. This is why there are many strange features. Like the curtain behind the bridge, no individual gray tank and engine heated hot water (previously a marine item). On the roads of the day (Interstates were coming along but still not as common as they are today), a vehicle had to be ready to deal with some really tough situations. If the coach could handle burning off the fuel weight and passengers changing places without over working the suspension travel, then a compliant ride would be achieved. I think they did it.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Fri Oct 25 08:15:27 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01530 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
