Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Body isolator pad question
| Body isolator pad question [message #159510] |
Mon, 06 February 2012 14:38  |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
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My 76 Palm Beach has the thin single strip body pad still completely intact on both sides with adequate clearance for wires, tubes and hoses at the appropriate locations. I don't see any points where the body is not separated from the frame by the body pad.
A section at the front passenger side has slipped out and I'm sure I can reinstall it by loosening the front body hold down bracket and jacking.
The cross section of the pad strip looks like an "I" beam the web of which is about 3/8" thick and the rails are about 1/2"thick. Is it completely compressed or was that the original shape?
I'm not inclined to do a lot of work unless I'm sure the result will be a clear an substantial improvement.
So my question is: Given the condition of my body pad can I expect any improvement if I replace the strips with new body pads or will it be wasted time and effort?
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: Body isolator pad question [message #159565 is a reply to message #159510] |
Tue, 07 February 2012 12:13  |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Gene all I can say is be careful if you install the thicker pads used in the later coaches. I have an early 76 like you have and I had a major problem when I replaced the thin long pads with the thicker pads. I followed the instructions that came with the pads and wound up with a 6 inch crack in my holding tank and a door that no longer closes like it used too. If you do it make sure you disconnect the dump valve first. After I removed and plastic welded my tank I had too shim it lower from the body and grind away a bit of the support near the dump valve. I also had to use slightly longer bolts and metal spacers at the rear donut mounting pads. After all of this nightmare I didn't notice any difference as my old isolaters were fine the way they were.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Body isolator pad question [message #159594 is a reply to message #159580] |
Tue, 07 February 2012 21:05 |
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> My 76 Palm Beach has the thin single strip body pad still completely intact on both sides with adequate clearance for wires, tubes and hoses at the appropriate locations. I don't see any points where the body is not separated from the frame by the body pad.
> A section at the front passenger side has slipped out and I'm sure I can reinstall it by loosening the front body hold down bracket and jacking.
>
> The cross section of the pad strip looks like an "I" beam the web of which is about 3/8" thick and the rails are about 1/2"thick. Is it completely compressed or was that the original shape?
Hi Gene, my '73 had some sections hanging out (or missing), similar to your front section and they were "H" shaped. I replaced with horse stall padding from my local farm supply. It is about 1/2" thick and pretty tough. I cut it wider (5"?)and 4-5 ft long, so I could put a screw into the body wood to hold it in place and also used "Gorilla Glue". I also replaced the donuts on the rear only. It really helped my noise problem, and didn't create any other problems. I think a moderately difficult install, particularly in the bogey area. I definitely think worthwhile. A little hard to cut, but not too bad w/vibrator tool; no way could use a utility knife. Good luck.
geo groth '73 260 Sequoia
Carson City Nevada 89703
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| Re: Body isolator pad question [message #159945 is a reply to message #159510] |
Fri, 10 February 2012 20:09 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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| gbarrow wrote on Mon, 06 February 2012 14:38 |
The cross section of the pad strip looks like an "I" beam the web of which is about 3/8" thick and the rails are about 1/2"thick. Is it completely compressed or was that the original shape?
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Here is a picture of an uncompressed section of pad from my 74.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=24750&title=getting-started&cat=4936
I don't agree with Emery that the original pads were flat. See the comments with my picture.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Body isolator pad question [message #159965 is a reply to message #159949] |
Fri, 10 February 2012 22:59 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
Mr. Manual here! ;-)
Reference
Parts Book 78Z
Page: 23-76
Figure: 23-090 BODY MOUNTING
KEY 23 26 Part Number Description
-- AR AR 2005279 INSULATOR - frame to floor (3" x 6") (opt.)
1 AR AR 698128 INSULATOR - frame to floor (128.00" - CTL) (repl. 698129)
1 - - 1 792006 INSULATOR - frame to floor (132.10" lg.) (eff. w/1975)
2 AR AR 698128 INSULATOR - frame to floor (128.00" - CTL) (repl. 700243, 700244)
Hopefully the above data won't get all misaligned after I hit send.
SWAG - the blocks p/n 2005279 were opt. - optional?
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Emery Stora
That may be for the earlier models with the full lenght pads but for later models with several pieces of pads they are flat.
I guess that we all have to know the model year before making statements.
Emery
On Feb 10, 2012, at 7:09 PM, Steve Southworth
>
> gbarrow wrote on Mon, 06 February 2012 14:38
>> The cross section of the pad strip looks like an "I" beam the web
>> of which is about 3/8" thick and the rails are about 1/2"thick. Is
>> it completely compressed or was that the original shape?
>
>
> Here is a picture of an uncompressed section of pad from my 74.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=24750&title=getting-started&cat=4936
>
>
> I don't agree with Emery that the original pads were flat. See the
> comments with my picture.
> --
> Steve
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Body isolator pad question [message #159992 is a reply to message #159945] |
Sat, 11 February 2012 11:39 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Steve,
So, are you going to replace the pads during your restoration or wait til the coach is on the road and determin if replacement is necessary?
My pad strips look like yours. I'm not convinced that replacing them will net any improvement. Would be nice to drive a coach with new pads to compare.
Unless I can be certain of substantial improvement I would rather spend the effort on some other project.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: Body isolator pad question [message #159993 is a reply to message #159510] |
Sat, 11 February 2012 11:49 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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I can't tell you whether the pads will make much of a difference in your situation, but I can tell you that new pads made a big difference in mine. Our pads weren't crushed flat, they weren't missing, and we didn't have any crushed fuel or brake lines anywhere. However, there were a few spots where they had shifted or were significantly flatter than other pads.
Once the pads were replaced, the ride was far less jarring, especially over things like railroad tracks and pot holes. It is also much quieter as a lot of the rattles like we find in the windows are now gone or significantly reduced when just driving down the road.
Replacing pads isn't going to make much of a difference to your driving, especially not as much as proper alignment, good bags, round wheels, etc., but it definitely is a noticeable improvement. It's a lot of hard work and sweat and probably not the best bang for your buck if you are paying someone else to do it, however, if you are able to do it yourself, it's a good thing to include on your list.
Even if your pads aren't shot now, they will be at some point. You may not notice the gradual deterioration until something important like a fuel line gets crushed. You will, however, notice the little things that are improved once its done.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Body isolator pad question [message #159997 is a reply to message #159992] |
Sat, 11 February 2012 12:56 |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
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My experience echos Jeremy's. Replacing the pads gave an immediately noticeable improvement in vibration, noise, window rattle, and I mean immediately, like in the first block of driving. I did have 3 pads missing.
If you do it, plan to use a lot of PB blaster, and BE PATIENT when attempting to remove the bolts up through the floor. If you get in a hurry (guess how I know) you'll strip the bolts and their offset washers out of the wood and then it's a pain. I got lucky and managed to get access to the two that I stripped, one in front of the door, the other under the couch. If they'd been under the galley or closet or bath modules..., well, luckily they weren't.
Jay Rabe
76 PB
Portland, OR
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: barrowgene@gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:39:42 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Body isolator pad question
>
>
>
> Steve,
>
> So, are you going to replace the pads during your restoration or wait til the coach is on the road and determin if replacement is necessary?
>
> My pad strips look like yours. I'm not convinced that replacing them will net any improvement. Would be nice to drive a coach with new pads to compare.
>
> Unless I can be certain of substantial improvement I would rather spend the effort on some other project.
> --
> Gene Barrow
> Lake Almanor, Ca.
> 1976 Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: Body isolator pad question [message #160009 is a reply to message #159993] |
Sat, 11 February 2012 16:29 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Jermy,
Thanks for the info. Sounds like your situation was similar to mine. No apparent problems but noticable improvement after pad replacement.
And thanks to all who responded.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: Body isolator pad question [message #160035 is a reply to message #159992] |
Sat, 11 February 2012 20:07 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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| gbarrow wrote on Sat, 11 February 2012 11:39 |
Steve,
So, are you going to replace the pads during your restoration or wait til the coach is on the road and determin if replacement is necessary?
My pad strips look like yours. I'm not convinced that replacing them will net any improvement. Would be nice to drive a coach with new pads to compare.
Unless I can be certain of substantial improvement I would rather spend the effort on some other project.
|
For now I'm not going to replace them. Too much to do to get it on the road without getting into that. If I decide later to R&R the frame to redo it I will have to make a decision on the pads.
Warning - opinion to follow: I have a high regard in general for GM engineering. They can be hobbled by the bean counters or stuff from the parts bin, however they seem to have a generally good handle on why they decided to do things the way they did. That said, I think the change from continuous body pads to short pads was made to decouple the body from the frame for NHV (noise, harshness, vibration). This would be a vote for short pads. However the aluminum body floor framing was also changed at roughly the same time. I will not go to the short pads until I investigate the body framing changes. One advantage of the long pads is they do not appear to collapse or fall out and do not crush fuel, vent or air lines.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Body isolator pad question [message #160037 is a reply to message #159997] |
Sat, 11 February 2012 20:21 |
rssbob
Messages: 259
Registered: January 2004
Location: La Mesa, Ca. (San Diego a...
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Jay,
What was your step-by-step procedure for replacement of the pads?
Thanks
On Feb 11, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Jay Rabe wrote:
>
> My experience echos Jeremy's. Replacing the pads gave an immediately noticeable improvement in vibration, noise, window rattle, and I mean immediately, like in the first block of driving. I did have 3 pads missing.
>
> If you do it, plan to use a lot of PB blaster, and BE PATIENT when attempting to remove the bolts up through the floor. If you get in a hurry (guess how I know) you'll strip the bolts and their offset washers out of the wood and then it's a pain. I got lucky and managed to get access to the two that I stripped, one in front of the door, the other under the couch. If they'd been under the galley or closet or bath modules..., well, luckily they weren't.
>
> Jay Rabe
> 76 PB
> Portland, OR
>
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> From: barrowgene@gmail.com
>> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:39:42 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Body isolator pad question
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> So, are you going to replace the pads during your restoration or wait til the coach is on the road and determin if replacement is necessary?
>>
>> My pad strips look like yours. I'm not convinced that replacing them will net any improvement. Would be nice to drive a coach with new pads to compare.
>>
>> Unless I can be certain of substantial improvement I would rather spend the effort on some other project.
>> --
>> Gene Barrow
>> Lake Almanor, Ca.
>> 1976 Palm Beach
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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Bob Sobrito
78 Palm Beach
La Mesa, Ca
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| Re: Body isolator pad question [message #160048 is a reply to message #159510] |
Sun, 12 February 2012 02:56 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Having now replaced or helped to replace three sets of isolators on three different coaches here are my opinions:
If you have the thick spacers and some are missing, or badly squished
1. Replace ALL of them.
2. You do not need to undo the hold downs that have vertical bolts going through the floor.
3. You do need to undo the rear hold downs that have horizontal bolts.
4. Do not bother trying to replace the thin pads under the brackets. There is no weight on them and they do not get squished.
If you have the thin full length strips, I question the need to replace these if they are still in place for the full length of the coach.
1. I helped do one set of these thin full length pads and it was a real b*t*h getting the old ones out. We did this one on a hoist and ended up attaching a come-along to the old ones to pull and stretch them to get them out.
2. You will need to loosen the body hold downs to insert the new ones because the new ones are thicker than the originals. Instead of loosening / removing the vertical bolts, remove ONE of the two horizontal bolts holding the upper bracket to the frame. Loosen but DO NOT remove the second bolt. Leave the nut on it. Now you will have enough play to raise the coach and insert the new isolators.
3. Once the isolator(s) in the area of the hold downs are replaced, take a drift punch and stick it through the holes in the frame and bracket. Then pry the bracket into position and tighten the bolt that you did not remove completely to hold the bracket in position. Then insert the second bolt and tighten it also.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Body isolator pad question [message #160074 is a reply to message #160048] |
Sun, 12 February 2012 13:21 |
rssbob
Messages: 259
Registered: January 2004
Location: La Mesa, Ca. (San Diego a...
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Ken,
That is very helpful info.
On Feb 12, 2012, at 12:56 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>
> Having now replaced or helped to replace three sets of isolators on three different coaches here are my opinions:
>
> If you have the thick spacers and some are missing, or badly squished
>
> 1. Replace ALL of them.
>
> 2. You do not need to undo the hold downs that have vertical bolts going through the floor.
>
> 3. You do need to undo the rear hold downs that have horizontal bolts.
>
> 4. Do not bother trying to replace the thin pads under the brackets. There is no weight on them and they do not get squished.
>
> If you have the thin full length strips, I question the need to replace these if they are still in place for the full length of the coach.
>
> 1. I helped do one set of these thin full length pads and it was a real b*t*h getting the old ones out. We did this one on a hoist and ended up attaching a come-along to the old ones to pull and stretch them to get them out.
>
> 2. You will need to loosen the body hold downs to insert the new ones because the new ones are thicker than the originals. Instead of loosening / removing the vertical bolts, remove ONE of the two horizontal bolts holding the upper bracket to the frame. Loosen but DO NOT remove the second bolt. Leave the nut on it. Now you will have enough play to raise the coach and insert the new isolators.
>
> 3. Once the isolator(s) in the area of the hold downs are replaced, take a drift punch and stick it through the holes in the frame and bracket. Then pry the bracket into position and tighten the bolt that you did not remove completely to hold the bracket in position. Then insert the second bolt and tighten it also.
>
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
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Bob Sobrito
78 Palm Beach
La Mesa, Ca
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| Re: [GMCnet] Body isolator pad question [message #160165 is a reply to message #160077] |
Mon, 13 February 2012 02:19 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Sun, 12 February 2012 14:24 |
G'day,
Don't forget to remove your Ragusa entry step if you have one.
Regards,
Rob M.
|
Thanks Rob. I forgot to mention that. I also fashion a couple of thin rubber shims to go between the step and the body. On the frame end of the step I enlarge the holes and put a couple of flat rubber washers there between the frame and the step. I use new bolts with nylon lock nuts on the bolts. I leave those bolts slightly loose so the step can move around. The reason for all of this is the body does flex on the frame a bit and I do not want the Ragusa step rigid mounted to both the body and the frame.
I have to thank Colonel Ken because when I started this project on my coach a few years back I was afraid of the work required. He chided me on GMCnet because I was only going to replace the missing pads. He shamed me enough so I finally did all of them and it was not a bad job at all.
The most difficult part was getting the old ones out that hadn't fallen out on their own. He suggested using a flat short crow or pry bar that has a curve on the end. It worked perfectly. It took me about 5 hours to do the first side that had the exhaust pipe down it. The next day I did the entire second side in about 2.5 or 3 hours.
Here is a shortened version of the pry bar Colonel Ken recommended:
http://www.gvtoolsandtarps.com/product/259
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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