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| Generator Install question [message #159298] |
Sat, 04 February 2012 16:35  |
Donovan-formerly Jase386
Messages: 139
Registered: January 2009
Location: Greenville SC
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Installing a new Onan genset, and instead of the simple two wires, i have four. two 120v leads. two corresponding circuit breakers. Looking for a way to wire this thing in and be able to benefit from the full wattage of my new Onan, and still be at 120v to keep from blowing my fridge and AC units out.
my brain is sore. 
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II
81,500 miles
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| Re: Generator Install question [message #159313 is a reply to message #159298] |
Sat, 04 February 2012 17:51  |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
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With 4 wires one would guess 2 hots a neutral and a ground. The manual should have the diagrams, Or like Matt said give us more info so we can help. IF its the above AND the GMC upfit coach is wired as original with a 4 pin cable, then you would wire the 14-50R (the big 4 pin receptical in the GMC) as a Hot to X, the other Hot to Y and N to N and G to G. You would have 220-240V between X and Y just as at the campground, but 120 form X to N or Y to N. The GMC does not use and circuites that use 2 pole breakers providing 2 hots in stock form, so it's more of a load balancing thing in the 120V world. Note that some Coachman's used a TT-30 so that would only use one hot. Need manual to see if there is some internal repatchabilty on the Genset.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Generator Install question [message #159478 is a reply to message #159298] |
Mon, 06 February 2012 08:34 |
Donovan-formerly Jase386
Messages: 139
Registered: January 2009
Location: Greenville SC
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My Apologies for the vague posting. In my imagination, I put down the important info; appearantly it didnt travel down my arm to my fingers!
Im installing a 7000w Onan Marquis Gold, the numbers escape me right now. It is a 120/240. From the generator are 5 leads: 2 whites (neutrals) 1 Green (ground) and 2 Black, one with a yellow stripe ( my guess is to differentiate the two circuits.
The generator has two circuit breakers.
my first thought was to just use one and wire it in like the old one was with 2 leads, then i realized i would just have access to half the generators potential output which would leave me with less than i had to start with. my puzzle is how to wire in so i can utilize the wattage or amps without using the full 240 output.
could use a transformer (know nothing about it)
could run one set to the AC circuit (but then how to run them off shore power?) these are the type questions going thru my head.
P.S. I do have plans to attend Bean Station this year.
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II
81,500 miles
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| Re: Generator Install question [message #159484 is a reply to message #159478] |
Mon, 06 February 2012 09:23 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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| Donovan-formerly Jase386 wrote on Mon, 06 February 2012 09:34 |
My Apologies for the vague posting. In my imagination, I put down the important info; appearantly it didnt travel down my arm to my fingers!
Im installing a 7000w Onan Marquis Gold, the numbers escape me right now. It is a 120/240. From the generator are 5 leads: 2 whites (neutrals) 1 Green (ground) and 2 Black, one with a yellow stripe ( my guess is to differentiate the two circuits.
The generator has two circuit breakers.
my first thought was to just use one and wire it in like the old one was with 2 leads, then i realized i would just have access to half the generators potential output which would leave me with less than i had to start with. my puzzle is how to wire in so i can utilize the wattage or amps without using the full 240 output.
could use a transformer (know nothing about it)
could run one set to the AC circuit (but then how to run them off shore power?) these are the type questions going thru my head.
P.S. I do have plans to attend Bean Station this year.
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Donovan,
Now that we know that, the only other question would be if your coach still has the factory 240V breaker box and the original 50amp plug and cable setup. Your ElII should be set up with one AC unit on each side of the phase. The only thing to watch is that you end up with the waterheater and the microwave on different sides of the box (phase).
I would love to make Beam Station but unless but we are working on getting to Shawnee.
Matt
If it does, this just got real simple. Wire the two breakers to the two hot leads of the 14-50 receptacle (one to each) the two whites together go to the center flat pin and the green to the round pin.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Generator Install question [message #159503 is a reply to message #159298] |
Mon, 06 February 2012 12:34 |
Donovan-formerly Jase386
Messages: 139
Registered: January 2009
Location: Greenville SC
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I do have the original 50 amp 4 prong plug and recepticle. As for the original set up at the breaker box it looks like this
(pretend the numbers are switches)
_________________________________
[20] [40]-[40] [20]
[ 20 ]
__________________________________
First 20 and the two 40's will turn off the AC. the 40s have a bar connecting them
top, far right 20 turns off the converter for 12v
bottom 20 which is a bigger switch, turns off the 120 outlets.
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II
81,500 miles
[Updated on: Mon, 06 February 2012 12:35] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Generator Install question [message #159508 is a reply to message #159298] |
Mon, 06 February 2012 14:19 |
Donovan-formerly Jase386
Messages: 139
Registered: January 2009
Location: Greenville SC
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Youre saying the box is already wired to split the 240 into two separate 120 circuits
i just need to connect my 4 leads from the generator to the correct parts of the socket?
currently the socket is wired like this
U n
I b I b
I n
the fun part is that the two blacks currently are split off from one 120 from the old 4000w.
i currently have the neutral split to the U pin and the bottom blade of the socket with no green ground, using the neutral as ground.
in the new set up, The 7000w has two separate 120's which i would guess go to the right and left blades of the socket.
and the whites would connect at the bottom blade with the ground at the top blade. or should i split the neutrals and run the ground to the frame?
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II
81,500 miles
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| Re: Generator Install question [message #159518 is a reply to message #159298] |
Mon, 06 February 2012 16:48 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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What Matt said. Though there is 240V metered between L1 and L2, either one is 120 to Neutral. Since the GMC only references L to N, and if you try to balance the loads as Matt said you should be good. When all is said and done, he 14-50R on the coach should be the same as the 14-50R on the campsite post.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator Install question [message #159522 is a reply to message #159518] |
Mon, 06 February 2012 17:19 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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OR, you could look up the Onan instructions (which will tell you to connect
the two white wires together and the two black wires together) to provide
120 vac output, just like the original. Then you can connect the wiring
just like OEM, which did not have any 240 vac in the coach.. :-)
JWID
Ken H.
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 5:48 PM, John R. Lebetski <gransport@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> What Matt said. Though there is 240V metered between L1 and L2, either
> one is 120 to Neutral. Since the GMC only references L to N, and if you try
> to balance the loads as Matt said you should be good. When all is said and
> done, he 14-50R on the coach should be the same as the 14-50R on the
> campsite post.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator Install question [message #159540 is a reply to message #159522] |
Mon, 06 February 2012 22:05 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I'm starting to get confused but I think he has true 120/240 volt Generator. If this is true, then he can NOT hook the two black leads together.
I believe he needs to attach the two white leads together at the female receptical and attach them to the neutral pin ONLY. Then reconnect the safety ground to the frame of the Onan. I do realize that there is a neutral to ground connection also required in the Onan.
| Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 06 February 2012 17:19 |
OR, you could look up the Onan instructions (which will tell you to connect
the two white wires together and the two black wires together) to provide
120 vac output, just like the original. Then you can connect the wiring
just like OEM, which did not have any 240 vac in the coach.. 
JWID
Ken H.
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 5:48 PM, John R. Lebetski <gransport@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> What Matt said. Though there is 240V metered between L1 and L2, either
> one is 120 to Neutral. Since the GMC only references L to N, and if you try
> to balance the loads as Matt said you should be good. When all is said and
> done, he 14-50R on the coach should be the same as the 14-50R on the
> campsite post.
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Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator Install question [message #159553 is a reply to message #159478] |
Tue, 07 February 2012 08:02 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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You need a 240V panel - one with two hot bars to connect to the breakers. Use either black to white for 110. If you have any 220 stuff, use black to black.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode Norris
'76 Palm Beach
6KW Onan
3.6KW Junkerac
4KW Kohler
From: jase386 <jase386@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Generator Install question
My Apologies for the vague posting. In my imagination, I put down the important info; appearantly it didnt travel down my arm to my fingers!
Im installing a 7000w Onan Marquis Gold, the numbers escape me right now. It is a 120/240. From the generator are 5 leads: 2 whites (neutrals) 1 Green (ground) and 2 Black, one with a yellow stripe ( my guess is to differentiate the two circuits.
The generator has two circuit breakers.
my first thought was to just use one and wire it in like the old one was with 2 leads, then i realized i would just have access to half the generators potential output which would leave me with less than i had to start with. my puzzle is how to wire in so i can utilize the wattage or amps without using the full 240 output.
could use a transformer (know nothing about it)
could run one set to the AC circuit (but then how to run them off shore power?) these are the type questions going thru my head.
P.S. I do have plans to attend Bean Station this year.
--
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II (Ella)
72,500 miles
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator Install question [message #159556 is a reply to message #159540] |
Tue, 07 February 2012 09:48 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Ken,
He does indeed have a true 120/240 wound generator. That means it can be
connected for 120 and 240, or for 120 only. He needs to check the Onan
documentation to be sure of the correct connections. It's very likely that
to get the phasing correct, it will be necessary to connect white to black
and black to white. You're probably right about not connecting white-white
& black-black since those should be out of phase for 240 vac. They may
even have internal jumpers of neutral colors so that cross color coding is
not "required" of an end-user.
When I installed the TroyBilt generator, I had to convert it from 120/240
to 120-only with no directions. It was a simple matter of disconnecting
the two parallel windings, which were not color coded, and using a 'scope
to check the phasing (could have done it with a meter). When the in-phase
connections are found, those windings can be paralleled. I wouldn't bet on
any color coding without checking the voltages.
Ken H.
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:05 PM, Ken Burton wrote:
>
>
> I'm starting to get confused but I think he has true 120/240 volt
> Generator. If this is true, then he can NOT hook the two black leads
> together.
>
> I believe he needs to attach the two white leads together at the female
> receptical and attach them to the neutral pin ONLY. Then reconnect the
> safety ground to the frame of the Onan. I do realize that there is a
> neutral to ground connection also required in the Onan.
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 06 February 2012 17:19
> > OR, you could look up the Onan instructions (which will tell you to
> connect
> > the two white wires together and the two black wires together) to provide
> > 120 vac output, just like the original. Then you can connect the wiring
> > just like OEM, which did not have any 240 vac in the coach.. :)
> >
> > JWID
> >
> > Ken H.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator Install question [message #159558 is a reply to message #159556] |
Tue, 07 February 2012 10:38 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Tue, 07 February 2012 07:48 |
... He does indeed have a true 120/240 wound generator. That means it can be
connected for 120 and 240, or for 120 only. He needs to check the Onan
documentation to be sure of the correct connections. It's very likely that
to get the phasing correct, it will be necessary to connect white to black
and black to white. You're probably right about not connecting white-white
& black-black since those should be out of phase for 240 vac. ...
|
In other words... RTFM. (Read The Manual)
I rarely see that posted on this forum (a good thing) but it really DOES apply to this problem. People on the net do not know FOR SURE what the generator is capable off.
If it is a 120v generator like the original it should be easy to wire into ANY GMC. If it is a 240v, wiring it exactly like the original might damage something, but it should be fairly easy to wire into the coaches with the 50 amp cord. (Like the GM upfitted and a FEW transmodes.)
But if you have a coach wired with a 30 amp cord (like almost all Coachman products) it will be a chore to wire in a 240v generator. BUT there might be a way to wire the generator to make it 120v.
In other words... RTFM.
If you do not understand what is being said, PLEASE find someone who does.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator Install question [message #159579 is a reply to message #159558] |
Tue, 07 February 2012 17:46 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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I have six pages of info on the Onan numbering system. There are six or seven parts to the model number that identify the output, engine data, generating set with Onan and with other manf. engines, electrical output, type of starting, specification numbers (for special customer modifications,) specification number (for major factory changes over time), and on some models, design feature code.
The model number designations have also changed over the years but the one that should be on the Onans used in GMCs is typically formatted like this:
6.0 NH - 1 R 9500 A
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1 2 3 4 5 6
where :
1. indicates kilowatt rating.
2. Series identification.
3. Voltage code of the generator (1=120 volts)
4. Method of starting (R = remote)
5. Factory code for designating optional equipment, if any.
6. Specification letter which advances when the factory makes production modifications.
For the voltage code, there are 26 different ones for 60 cycle but I will not list them all. There are 5 other AC frequencies available and there are 16 DC generators and 6 welders.
1=120 volt, 1 phase, 2 wire
1X (was 11)=120 volt, 3 phase, 3 wire
2=240 volt, 1 phase, 2 wire
3=120/240 volt, 1 phase, 2 wire
3C=120,240,120/240, 1 phase, 4 wire
The code 1 is not modifiable to a 240 volt system. I would think that the one marked 3 is convertible. I rather doubt that we will find it in our GMCs though.
If anyone need more info than this about their Onan just email me the model number from the plate.
Emery Stora
On Feb 7, 2012, at 9:38 AM, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Tue, 07 February 2012 07:48
>> ... He does indeed have a true 120/240 wound generator. That means it can be
>> connected for 120 and 240, or for 120 only. He needs to check the Onan
>> documentation to be sure of the correct connections. It's very likely that
>> to get the phasing correct, it will be necessary to connect white to black
>> and black to white. You're probably right about not connecting white-white
>> & black-black since those should be out of phase for 240 vac. ...
>
>
> In other words... RTFM. (Read The Manual)
>
> I rarely see that posted on this forum (a good thing) but it really DOES apply to this problem. People on the net do not know FOR SURE what the generator is capable off.
>
> If it is a 120v generator like the original it should be easy to wire into ANY GMC. If it is a 240v, wiring it exactly like the original might damage something, but it should be fairly easy to wire into the coaches with the 50 amp cord. (Like the GM upfitted and a FEW transmodes.)
>
> But if you have a coach wired with a 30 amp cord (like almost all Coachman products) it will be a chore to wire in a 240v generator. BUT there might be a way to wire the generator to make it 120v.
>
> In other words... RTFM.
>
> If you do not understand what is being said, PLEASE find someone who does.
> --
> Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
> (#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
> http://m000035.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator Install question [message #159605 is a reply to message #159553] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 01:52 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Johnny Bridges wrote on Tue, 07 February 2012 08:02 |
You need a 240V panel - one with two hot bars to connect to the breakers. Use either black to white for 110. If you have any 220 stuff, use black to black.
--johnny
|
Johnny,
I'm confused. If he has a GM upfitted coach he already has a 240 volt panel with a 50 amp cord designed to plug in to a 240 volt shore power. This should not an issue for him.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator Install question [message #159615 is a reply to message #159605] |
Wed, 08 February 2012 07:44 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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True dat. If it came that way, it's a hookup. If it didn't, he needs to add one. He refers to a set of ganged breakers, indicating it >is< a 240V split panel.
--johnny
From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Generator Install question
Johnny Bridges wrote on Tue, 07 February 2012 08:02
> You need a 240V panel - one with two hot bars to connect to the breakers. Use either black to white for 110. If you have any 220 stuff, use black to black.
>
> --johnny
Johnny,
I'm confused. If he has a GM upfitted coach he already has a 240 volt panel with a 50 amp cord designed to plug in to a 240 volt shore power. This should not an issue for him.
Ken B.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Generator Install question (update) [message #164446 is a reply to message #159298] |
Wed, 28 March 2012 10:23 |
Donovan-formerly Jase386
Messages: 139
Registered: January 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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just thought id drop a line to let those who helped me figure this out that i finally wired the new gen up yesterday and she pulls the AC just fine. Since i had the 240 panel already it was easy. but i wouldnt have known what i had if not from the help i got from here.
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II
81,500 miles
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