Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Self storing table details & Quartzite
| [GMCnet] Self storing table details & Quartzite [message #157948] |
Wed, 25 January 2012 09:52  |
glwgmc
Messages: 1014
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Hi Gary and anyone else interested,
LEDs have two inherent advantages; a) they emit far more photons of light per watt consumed than any other common lighting technology - about 10x over incandescent, b) they last far longer - about 50x over incandescent. They currently are more costly per photon of output since they are more than 10x over incandescent but that is coming down. Up to now the issue has been how to get enough photons of light to be perceived as "bright enough" and how to shift the color temperature lower to a more pleasing light. One can simply add more LEDs to the same fixture to get more photons of light out, but that may cost more and at some point heat becomes an issue. Most currently place a filter over the LED emitter to lower the color temperature, but that absorbs some of the visible light making the LED look less bright. To dissipate the heat, larger light output units use some kind of a heat sink - some you see, some you don't.
Many of the cheap LEDs (like the ones in inexpensive 120vac fixtures) have no voltage control to keep costs down. They use a wall wart to drop the 120vac to 12vac but are not usable in our GMCs which see voltage all the way from below 12vdc to over 15vdc in normal use. These cheapies will fail quickly in our coaches. The good LED lights use a voltage controller that will allow the unit to emit a constant amount of light at voltages from around 9vdc to somewhere in the 20vdc range. Those are the only ones you want to put into your coach. To try to fit the bewildering array of mounting bases (pins, twist pins, pegs, threads, etc.) some packagers of LED lights are going to strips of emitters that glue on to your existing fixture so you can add or subtract these strips to get the amount of light out you want. Some regulate voltage and dissipate heat and some do not.
Most LED light suppliers are repackagers. They buy emitters, voltage controller boards, heat sinks and filters and assemble them into the various form factors they think will fit the market they are after. This market reminds me of the "IBM PC" market in the 1980s. At first only very large companies (like IBM) assembled components into "PC computers" and sold them at very high prices. A bit later retail suppliers like Fry's set up grocery store like shelves full of these same components so anyone could push their cart through the store and by a case in one place, a mother board, power supply and microprocessor in another and the rest of the components they wanted as they wheeled down the isles. They all looked ugly since the cases were just bent metal painted either black or beige. Other people came along and said style and usability were important so they designed purpose built "PC computers" - think Apple. Prices per unit of computing power dropped like a rock. The
rest is history as they say.
I see this LED market in much the same way. I am seeing well packaged and styled units with all sorts of bases and a bunch of what look like junior high science project units side by side - more of the former and fewer of the latter than previous years. Many of the vendors here at Quartzite sell the same packaged brand. Some apparently just bought a container load from somewhere in SEA and have no idea how they work or what components are used. Others buy the components and do their own assembly in the US and they seem to know what is in their units. Hope this helps.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
Visitors always welcome!
glwork@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
541-592-5360
www.southernoregonguild.org
www.siskiyouguild.org
------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:09:34 -0800
From: Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Self storing table details & Quartzite
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Message-ID:
<CADgJ_HSn2w699FNLpXzexLhVZtYzvgbQ2RdUcjb8ggnu_j7GgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hey Jerry;
Any of them telling you how they are doing this? Just adding more
LEDs to the package? Are they using more current? Are they hotter? I
think everyone wants more light, but if the current usage is getting
close to incandescent then what's the point? Just wondering if anyone
is asking...
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Work Jerry <glwork@mac.com> wrote:
> ?Intensities are increasing to the point that it is not hard to find replacement bulbs that rival the incandescent or halogen bulbs being replaced whether you are looking for 12vdc bulbs for your GMC or 120vac for your home.
>
> Jerry
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
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| Re: [GMCnet] Self storing table details & Quartzite [message #157953 is a reply to message #157948] |
Wed, 25 January 2012 10:43  |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Jerry, I am planning on installing all led lights in my coach when I get to installing the new interior. I have noticed a huge range in price/brightness/style of led fixtures. From what I just read from your post I gather that your understanding of this topic far exceeds mine and possibly many others on the forum. Do you have any interest in writing a piece to put on the gmc tech site? I personally would like to have a buyers guide with lumen to watt info in order to be able to make smart fixture purchases and wiring decisions.
Sully
77 royale
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Work Jerry <glwork@mac.com>
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 07:52:38
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Reply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Self storing table details & Quartzite
Hi Gary and anyone else interested,
LEDs have two inherent advantages; a) they emit far more photons of light per watt consumed than any other common lighting technology - about 10x over incandescent, b) they last far longer - about 50x over incandescent. They currently are more costly per photon of output since they are more than 10x over incandescent but that is coming down. Up to now the issue has been how to get enough photons of light to be perceived as "bright enough" and how to shift the color temperature lower to a more pleasing light. One can simply add more LEDs to the same fixture to get more photons of light out, but that may cost more and at some point heat becomes an issue. Most currently place a filter over the LED emitter to lower the color temperature, but that absorbs some of the visible light making the LED look less bright. To dissipate the heat, larger light output units use some kind of a heat sink - some you see, some you don't.
Many of the cheap LEDs (like the ones in inexpensive 120vac fixtures) have no voltage control to keep costs down. They use a wall wart to drop the 120vac to 12vac but are not usable in our GMCs which see voltage all the way from below 12vdc to over 15vdc in normal use. These cheapies will fail quickly in our coaches. The good LED lights use a voltage controller that will allow the unit to emit a constant amount of light at voltages from around 9vdc to somewhere in the 20vdc range. Those are the only ones you want to put into your coach. To try to fit the bewildering array of mounting bases (pins, twist pins, pegs, threads, etc.) some packagers of LED lights are going to strips of emitters that glue on to your existing fixture so you can add or subtract these strips to get the amount of light out you want. Some regulate voltage and dissipate heat and some do not.
Most LED light suppliers are repackagers. They buy emitters, voltage controller boards, heat sinks and filters and assemble them into the various form factors they think will fit the market they are after. This market reminds me of the "IBM PC" market in the 1980s. At first only very large companies (like IBM) assembled components into "PC computers" and sold them at very high prices. A bit later retail suppliers like Fry's set up grocery store like shelves full of these same components so anyone could push their cart through the store and by a case in one place, a mother board, power supply and microprocessor in another and the rest of the components they wanted as they wheeled down the isles. They all looked ugly since the cases were just bent metal painted either black or beige. Other people came along and said style and usability were important so they designed purpose built "PC computers" - think Apple. Prices per unit of computing power dropped like a rock. The
rest is history as they say.
I see this LED market in much the same way. I am seeing well packaged and styled units with all sorts of bases and a bunch of what look like junior high science project units side by side - more of the former and fewer of the latter than previous years. Many of the vendors here at Quartzite sell the same packaged brand. Some apparently just bought a container load from somewhere in SEA and have no idea how they work or what components are used. Others buy the components and do their own assembly in the US and they seem to know what is in their units. Hope this helps.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
Visitors always welcome!
glwork@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
541-592-5360
www.southernoregonguild.org
www.siskiyouguild.org
------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:09:34 -0800
From: Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Self storing table details & Quartzite
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Message-ID:
<CADgJ_HSn2w699FNLpXzexLhVZtYzvgbQ2RdUcjb8ggnu_j7GgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hey Jerry;
Any of them telling you how they are doing this? Just adding more
LEDs to the package? Are they using more current? Are they hotter? I
think everyone wants more light, but if the current usage is getting
close to incandescent then what's the point? Just wondering if anyone
is asking...
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Work Jerry <glwork@mac.com> wrote:
> ?Intensities are increasing to the point that it is not hard to find replacement bulbs that rival the incandescent or halogen bulbs being replaced whether you are looking for 12vdc bulbs for your GMC or 120vac for your home.
>
> Jerry
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
-------------------------------------
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Self storing table details & Quartzite [message #158055 is a reply to message #157948] |
Thu, 26 January 2012 07:57 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Came looking for table styles and was "Blinded by the LED light".
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Work Jerry <glwork@mac.com> wrote:
> Hi Gary and anyone else interested,
>
> LEDs have two inherent advantages; a) they emit far more photons of light
> per watt consumed than any other common lighting technology - about 10x
> over incandescent, b) they last far longer - about 50x over incandescent.
> They currently are more costly per photon of output since they are more
> than 10x over incandescent but that is coming down. Up to now the issue
> has been how to get enough photons of light to be perceived as "bright
> enough" and how to shift the color temperature lower to a more pleasing
> light. One can simply add more LEDs to the same fixture to get more
> photons of light out, but that may cost more and at some point heat becomes
> an issue. Most currently place a filter over the LED emitter to lower the
> color temperature, but that absorbs some of the visible light making the
> LED look less bright. To dissipate the heat, larger light output units use
> some kind of a heat sink - some you see, some you don't.
>
> Many of the cheap LEDs (like the ones in inexpensive 120vac fixtures) have
> no voltage control to keep costs down. They use a wall wart to drop the
> 120vac to 12vac but are not usable in our GMCs which see voltage all the
> way from below 12vdc to over 15vdc in normal use. These cheapies will fail
> quickly in our coaches. The good LED lights use a voltage controller that
> will allow the unit to emit a constant amount of light at voltages from
> around 9vdc to somewhere in the 20vdc range. Those are the only ones you
> want to put into your coach. To try to fit the bewildering array of
> mounting bases (pins, twist pins, pegs, threads, etc.) some packagers of
> LED lights are going to strips of emitters that glue on to your existing
> fixture so you can add or subtract these strips to get the amount of light
> out you want. Some regulate voltage and dissipate heat and some do not.
>
> Most LED light suppliers are repackagers. They buy emitters, voltage
> controller boards, heat sinks and filters and assemble them into the
> various form factors they think will fit the market they are after. This
> market reminds me of the "IBM PC" market in the 1980s. At first only very
> large companies (like IBM) assembled components into "PC computers" and
> sold them at very high prices. A bit later retail suppliers like Fry's set
> up grocery store like shelves full of these same components so anyone could
> push their cart through the store and by a case in one place, a mother
> board, power supply and microprocessor in another and the rest of the
> components they wanted as they wheeled down the isles. They all looked
> ugly since the cases were just bent metal painted either black or beige.
> Other people came along and said style and usability were important so
> they designed purpose built "PC computers" - think Apple. Prices per unit
> of computing power dropped like a rock. The
> rest is history as they say.
>
> I see this LED market in much the same way. I am seeing well packaged and
> styled units with all sorts of bases and a bunch of what look like junior
> high science project units side by side - more of the former and fewer of
> the latter than previous years. Many of the vendors here at Quartzite sell
> the same packaged brand. Some apparently just bought a container load from
> somewhere in SEA and have no idea how they work or what components are
> used. Others buy the components and do their own assembly in the US and
> they seem to know what is in their units. Hope this helps.
>
> Jerry
> Jerry Work
> The Dovetail Joint
> Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple
> building in historic Kerby, OR
> Visitors always welcome!
> glwork@mac.com
> http://jerrywork.com
> 541-592-5360
>
> www.southernoregonguild.org
> www.siskiyouguild.org
> ------------------------
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:09:34 -0800
> From: Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Self storing table details & Quartzite
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Message-ID:
> <CADgJ_HSn2w699FNLpXzexLhVZtYzvgbQ2RdUcjb8ggnu_j7GgQ@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hey Jerry;
>
> Any of them telling you how they are doing this? Just adding more
> LEDs to the package? Are they using more current? Are they hotter? I
> think everyone wants more light, but if the current usage is getting
> close to incandescent then what's the point? Just wondering if anyone
> is asking...
>
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Work Jerry <glwork@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > ?Intensities are increasing to the point that it is not hard to find
> replacement bulbs that rival the incandescent or halogen bulbs being
> replaced whether you are looking for 12vdc bulbs for your GMC or 120vac for
> your home.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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