| AC inverter / Charger [message #156668] |
Sat, 14 January 2012 10:00  |
winter
Messages: 247
Registered: September 2007
Location: MPLS MN
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I have been looking at inverters for the coach with the hope that I could find one that could be powerful enough to power the roof AC and integrate well into the other power systems on the coach. Most of them available had a transfer switch that disabled the inverter when other AC power is available. I just found the new generation Xantrex inverter that is 3000 W continous, 6000 W peak (5 seconds), and has a generator assist mode where it will stand by with the generator running and assist up to 6000 W to help out if needed.
This may be new to me but it seems like a parallel inverter like that has many uses. I could have a small quiet generator that starts and stops to charge the batteries while the Xantrex runs the AC and other loads. I could also charge the battery bank off an auxiliary or larger engine alternator so that AC power would be available when the main engine is running.
I guess the big question is how many batteries are needed and how big a generator would be necessary. Two air conditioners are probably way too much to try and run.
Has anyone set up an inverter / charger like this?
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Re: AC inverter / Charger [message #156669 is a reply to message #156668] |
Sat, 14 January 2012 10:03  |
winter
Messages: 247
Registered: September 2007
Location: MPLS MN
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Amazon has one listed for about $1500.
Xantrex Freedom SW3012.
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Re: AC inverter / Charger [message #156682 is a reply to message #156668] |
Sat, 14 January 2012 12:22 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| winter wrote on Sat, 14 January 2012 11:00 |
I have been looking at inverters for the coach with the hope that I could find one that could be powerful enough to power the roof AC and integrate well into the other power systems on the coach. Most of them available had a transfer switch that disabled the inverter when other AC power is available. I just found the new generation Xantrex inverter that is 3000 W continous, 6000 W peak (5 seconds), and has a generator assist mode where it will stand by with the generator running and assist up to 6000 W to help out if needed.
This may be new to me but it seems like a parallel inverter like that has many uses. I could have a small quiet generator that starts and stops to charge the batteries while the Xantrex runs the AC and other loads. I could also charge the battery bank off an auxiliary or larger engine alternator so that AC power would be available when the main engine is running.
I guess the big question is how many batteries are needed and how big a generator would be necessary. Two air conditioners are probably way too much to try and run.
Has anyone set up an inverter / charger like this?
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Jerrod,
Back before the economy ended, I used to do two or three installations of Xantrex inverter/chargers a year. (The CU invoice was typically 1.5~2k.)
This is an interesting next generation of their line, but I could not find any reference to the generator assist mode you mentioned. If you can point me to the book/page, I would appreciate it. That would take some serious doing. While it does do as many tricks as a circus pony, that is more along the line of the human cannon ball joining the trapeze act mid flight. It does do generator start, and a thing call power share so it does not take APU/shore power off-line when trying to charge the house bank along with other AC loads.
As to batteries, if you really want to run this thing at load, you best be looking at a serious house bank like 2ea 8D or 3x2-T125. That, or raid a USN submarine junk yard.
Several owners that had the battery weight (cruisers can afford that sort of weight in a boat that is already displacing 20+T) have used Xantrex to run the AC. As to two RV A/C units? It probably could run them. You had best engineer a sequencing system so they cannot both try to start at the same time. If you read all the available material at the Xantrex site, you will find that the APU start is set up to fire A/C units if it is programed to do so and the need arises.
I was disappointed but not surprised to see that the owner's and installation manuals were printer in China. That means that the box is packed there and not opened again.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: AC inverter / Charger [message #156688 is a reply to message #156668] |
Sat, 14 January 2012 14:13 |
winter
Messages: 247
Registered: September 2007
Location: MPLS MN
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take a look at page 4 and 53 of the owners manual which is in PDF version on the xantrex product page listed below.
The features are also described on the main page:
http://xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/freedom-sw-12v_newgen.aspx
I don't think it would be necessary to run for an extended period of time on batteries. I was mainly thinking about two situations:
While underway it would be nice if things would keep running if I stopped for fuel or lunch without running the generator.
I think it would be easier to run a little 1K or 2K generator at full load during the day at a camping spot rather than a 3K or larger at part load. My 3K Honda is still loud enough to make the tenters mad. A 1K or 2K may be small and quiet enough for them not to notice. The smaller ones are also a lot lighter and take less room.
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
[Updated on: Sat, 14 January 2012 14:15] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: AC inverter / Charger [message #156708 is a reply to message #156668] |
Sat, 14 January 2012 20:00 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
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Re "quiet" generators. Honda "say" there 3000 Watt inverter generator peaks at 58 dbA and their 2000 Watt inverter generator peaks at 59 dbA. I know from personal experience the 3000 is quiet. Don't know of any other "small" generators that are quieter.Honda also say the 3000 will only run up to a 13,500 BTU RV A/C.
On the subject of running a R/V AC off battery, a running 15,000 BTU RV A/C will usually blow a 15 AMP normal fuse, so let's say it will draw at least 150 Amps if running on an inverter.(to the inverter) THAT'S A LOT OF CURRENT !!!
DAVE KING
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: AC inverter / Charger [message #156716 is a reply to message #156668] |
Sat, 14 January 2012 20:54 |
winter
Messages: 247
Registered: September 2007
Location: MPLS MN
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The page says that it will kick in after 1 or 2 seconds of overload. That may be too much delay to help out an inverter generator. They seem like they kick out quicker than that.
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Re: AC inverter / Charger [message #156775 is a reply to message #156668] |
Sun, 15 January 2012 10:33 |
winter
Messages: 247
Registered: September 2007
Location: MPLS MN
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Rob, how many amp hours is your battery bank? Did you do anything special to vent the batteries to the outdoors?
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Re: [GMCnet] AC inverter / Charger [message #157422 is a reply to message #156817] |
Fri, 20 January 2012 15:42 |
Kudzu
Messages: 377
Registered: November 2011
Location: Marshville, NC
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Are those sealed batteries? Just worried because if not, they would be
outgassing hydrogen. Unsealed batteries shouldn't be enclosed but kept
well ventilated. Like the coach itself... :-)
Dan in NC
Caregiver to a 1976 Eleganza II
"Tzetze Fly"
On 1/15/2012 5:55 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Jerrod,
>
> There are two http://www.usbattery.com/usb_us2000xc.html wired in series.
>
> In the lower left corner of the battery box in the linked picture below you will see a corrugated 2" hose. It goes from the battery
> box to the rear wall. It comes out under the license plate; it is the standard Avion vent.
>
> The wires go out through the bottom of the box through a 2" galvanized tube. You can't see it but the yellow cable goes straight
> down to it; that tube is also standard Avion.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31263
>
> The battery box has a cover with a rubber seal that seals it off from the inside of the GMC.
>
> The foam padding is not standard Avion, I did that to keep the batteries from bouncing around.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jerrod winter
>
> Rob, how many amp hours is your battery bank? Did you do anything special to vent the batteries to the outdoors?
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1976 Eleganza II
1996 Chevy Impala SS
1999 Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad
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| Re: [GMCnet] AC inverter / Charger [message #157423 is a reply to message #157422] |
Fri, 20 January 2012 16:43 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Dan,
As noted below:
"In the lower left corner of the battery box in the linked picture below you will see a corrugated 2" hose. It goes from the battery
box to the rear wall. It comes out under the license plate; it is the standard Avion vent."
"The battery box has a cover with a rubber seal that seals it off from the inside of the GMC."
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Jarvis
Are those sealed batteries? Just worried because if not, they would be
outgassing hydrogen. Unsealed batteries shouldn't be enclosed but kept
well ventilated. Like the coach itself... :-)
Dan in NC
Caregiver to a 1976 Eleganza II
"Tzetze Fly"
On 1/15/2012 5:55 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Jerrod,
>
> There are two http://www.usbattery.com/usb_us2000xc.html wired in series.
>
> In the lower left corner of the battery box in the linked picture below you will see a corrugated 2" hose. It goes from the
battery
> box to the rear wall. It comes out under the license plate; it is the standard Avion vent.
>
> The wires go out through the bottom of the box through a 2" galvanized tube. You can't see it but the yellow cable goes straight
> down to it; that tube is also standard Avion.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31263
>
> The battery box has a cover with a rubber seal that seals it off from the inside of the GMC.
>
> The foam padding is not standard Avion, I did that to keep the batteries from bouncing around.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jerrod winter
>
> Rob, how many amp hours is your battery bank? Did you do anything special to vent the batteries to the outdoors?
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] AC inverter / Charger [message #157461 is a reply to message #157423] |
Fri, 20 January 2012 23:05 |
Kudzu
Messages: 377
Registered: November 2011
Location: Marshville, NC
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Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
Dan in NC
Caregiver to a 1976 Eleganza II
"Tzetze Fly"
On 1/20/2012 5:43 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Dan,
>
> As noted below:
>
> "In the lower left corner of the battery box in the linked picture below you will see a corrugated 2" hose. It goes from the battery
> box to the rear wall. It comes out under the license plate; it is the standard Avion vent."
>
> "The battery box has a cover with a rubber seal that seals it off from the inside of the GMC."
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Jarvis
>
> Are those sealed batteries? Just worried because if not, they would be
> outgassing hydrogen. Unsealed batteries shouldn't be enclosed but kept
> well ventilated. Like the coach itself... :-)
>
> Dan in NC
> Caregiver to a 1976 Eleganza II
> "Tzetze Fly"
>
> On 1/15/2012 5:55 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
>> Jerrod,
>>
>> There are two http://www.usbattery.com/usb_us2000xc.html wired in series.
>>
>> In the lower left corner of the battery box in the linked picture below you will see a corrugated 2" hose. It goes from the
> battery
>> box to the rear wall. It comes out under the license plate; it is the standard Avion vent.
>>
>> The wires go out through the bottom of the box through a 2" galvanized tube. You can't see it but the yellow cable goes straight
>> down to it; that tube is also standard Avion.
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=31263
>>
>> The battery box has a cover with a rubber seal that seals it off from the inside of the GMC.
>>
>> The foam padding is not standard Avion, I did that to keep the batteries from bouncing around.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jerrod winter
>>
>> Rob, how many amp hours is your battery bank? Did you do anything special to vent the batteries to the outdoors?
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1976 Eleganza II
1996 Chevy Impala SS
1999 Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad
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