Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks...
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| Re: what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks... [message #156178 is a reply to message #156176] |
Mon, 09 January 2012 23:57   |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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At least they purge instead of explode.
Seems a lot of comments from firefighters about the slow response to this fire by the FD on the scene.
Hope this never happens to any of us.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks... [message #156181 is a reply to message #156176] |
Tue, 10 January 2012 00:33 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Ouch. That's tragic, and the Keystone Cops, er, firefighters made it even sadder.
Larry Davick
On Jan 9, 2012, at 9:31 PM, steve & debbie <zzdebz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PS0OJKuZzE&feature=related
>
> scary ...........
> --
> Steve & Debbie
> Monticello, FL
> 77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
> EX G4WDT
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks... [message #156182 is a reply to message #156180] |
Tue, 10 January 2012 00:36 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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I don't know, the propane didn't flare up until the pressure valve blew off.
Larry Davick
On Jan 9, 2012, at 10:18 PM, "Greg and April" <gregandapril@earthlink.net> wrote:
> and this is why you don't let propane tanks rattle around in the back:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7RNYw11XHM
> .
>
> Greg H.
>
> I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
> to keep me company.
>
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "steve & debbie" <zzdebz@yahoo.com>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 22:31
> Subject: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks...
>
>
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PS0OJKuZzE&feature=related
>>
>> scary ...........
>> --
>> Steve & Debbie
>> Monticello, FL
>> 77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
>> EX G4WDT
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks... [message #156184 is a reply to message #156182] |
Tue, 10 January 2012 00:49 |
Greg and April
Messages: 263
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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The reason that started in the first place was because the valve was either
opened or damaged from the entire tank shifting around the bed of the pickup
unimpeded - if you look as the pickup first shows up, you will see the tank
moving around and the bed is almost half filled with propane vapor, which
deflagrates as the driver looks in.
Greg H.
I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
to keep me company.
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Davick" <ljdavick@comcast.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 23:36
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks...
>I don't know, the propane didn't flare up until the pressure valve blew
>off.
>
> Larry Davick
>
> On Jan 9, 2012, at 10:18 PM, "Greg and April" <gregandapril@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> and this is why you don't let propane tanks rattle around in the back:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7RNYw11XHM
>> .
>>
>> Greg H.
>>
>> I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass
>> band
>> to keep me company.
>>
>> .
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "steve & debbie" <zzdebz@yahoo.com>
>> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 22:31
>> Subject: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks...
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PS0OJKuZzE&feature=related
>>>
>>> scary ...........
>>> --
>>> Steve & Debbie
>>> Monticello, FL
>>> 77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
>>> EX G4WDT
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks... [message #156187 is a reply to message #156184] |
Tue, 10 January 2012 00:59 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Ooh. I didn't see the pickup video. That's just Darwin at work.
Larry Davick
On Jan 9, 2012, at 10:49 PM, "Greg and April" <gregandapril@earthlink.net> wrote:
> The reason that started in the first place was because the valve was either
> opened or damaged from the entire tank shifting around the bed of the pickup
> unimpeded - if you look as the pickup first shows up, you will see the tank
> moving around and the bed is almost half filled with propane vapor, which
> deflagrates as the driver looks in.
>
> Greg H.
>
> I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
> to keep me company.
>
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Davick" <ljdavick@comcast.net>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 23:36
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks...
>
>
>> I don't know, the propane didn't flare up until the pressure valve blew
>> off.
>>
>> Larry Davick
>>
>> On Jan 9, 2012, at 10:18 PM, "Greg and April" <gregandapril@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> and this is why you don't let propane tanks rattle around in the back:
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7RNYw11XHM
>>> .
>>>
>>> Greg H.
>>>
>>> I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass
>>> band
>>> to keep me company.
>>>
>>> .
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "steve & debbie" <zzdebz@yahoo.com>
>>> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 22:31
>>> Subject: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks...
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PS0OJKuZzE&feature=related
>>>>
>>>> scary ...........
>>>> --
>>>> Steve & Debbie
>>>> Monticello, FL
>>>> 77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
>>>> EX G4WDT
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks... [message #156190 is a reply to message #156186] |
Tue, 10 January 2012 01:48 |
Greg and April
Messages: 263
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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They vent if they can, but sometimes they can't vent enough either because
the safety valve has failed or because they heated so fast that there is not
enough time to vent everything, and once the metal has weakened from the
heat, the tank fails from the internal pressure, and the result is a rapidly
expanding cloud of flammable gas, which once it defuses and mixes with
enough oxygen to ignite, it deflagrates. This is what ultimately caused
the explosions towards the end of both video's - the idea is to vent as much
as possible in a controlled manner before the walls of the tanks fail.
Here is one that is so big, that the initial release of propane from a
failed tanker truck, can clearly be seen in an expanding cloud of white
vapor @ the 32 sec mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqA8tJ6tXJQ
This short video gives a very good idea of how the theory of safety valves
works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM0jtD_OWLU&feature=related
I used to work security at a propane/air shaving operation ( where they mix
enough air into propane to bring the BTU value down to the same as natural
gas and then inject it into the local natural gas line at a rate of 1
million cubic feet an hour at 150 psi ), and we had forty two 55,000 gal
tanks, all of which were kept at 75-80% capacity when full, and they kept
them in 7 banks of 6, with a 10" concrete blast wall between bank, and we
were terminally paranoid about safety.
Greg H.
I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
to keep me company.
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve & debbie" <zzdebz@yahoo.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 23:56
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks...
>
>
> Hello,
> I assume propane tanks in our gmc's, vent off if heated also, rather than
> explode ????
>
> cheers and beers
> --
> Steve & Debbie
> Monticello, FL
> 77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
> EX G4WDT
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks... [message #156191 is a reply to message #156190] |
Tue, 10 January 2012 02:20 |
glacierfl
Messages: 444
Registered: June 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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hello,
Not sure i would have wanted to work there with forty two 55,000 gal tanks....
I am beginning to wonder if propane is for me. At the very least have fire ext stuff like Jim B sells... Not trying to sell his stuff for him, but seeing what could happen, is very scary indeed....
cheers and beers
Steve & Debbie
Monticello, FL
77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
EX G4WDT
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| Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks... [message #156205 is a reply to message #156180] |
Tue, 10 January 2012 07:58 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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That last one must have been the gasoline tank under the bed. Do you think the guy had a cigarette? didn't seem to ignite until he got close.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks... [message #156206 is a reply to message #156190] |
Tue, 10 January 2012 08:04 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
At first I didn't see the relevance of these videos to a GMC; however, it got me to thinking.
Should we add a step to the GMC Fire Guide on the Eastern States Website to pressure test the relief valves in our GMC's.
They are all over 30 years old!
If the consensus is yes we need to figger out how to do it safely; would it be safe to pressurize it installed in the tank or not?
If it is OK to leave it installed is it OK to use compressed air.
IIRC if you open the propane tank is allowed to fill with air it must be purged with propane or evacuated and backfilled with
propane to get all the air out.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg and April
They vent if they can, but sometimes they can't vent enough either because
the safety valve has failed or because they heated so fast that there is not
enough time to vent everything, and once the metal has weakened from the
heat, the tank fails from the internal pressure, and the result is a rapidly
expanding cloud of flammable gas, which once it defuses and mixes with
enough oxygen to ignite, it deflagrates. This is what ultimately caused
the explosions towards the end of both video's - the idea is to vent as much
as possible in a controlled manner before the walls of the tanks fail.
Here is one that is so big, that the initial release of propane from a
failed tanker truck, can clearly be seen in an expanding cloud of white
vapor @ the 32 sec mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqA8tJ6tXJQ
This short video gives a very good idea of how the theory of safety valves
works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM0jtD_OWLU&feature=related
I used to work security at a propane/air shaving operation ( where they mix
enough air into propane to bring the BTU value down to the same as natural
gas and then inject it into the local natural gas line at a rate of 1
million cubic feet an hour at 150 psi ), and we had forty two 55,000 gal
tanks, all of which were kept at 75-80% capacity when full, and they kept
them in 7 banks of 6, with a 10" concrete blast wall between bank, and we
were terminally paranoid about safety.
Greg H.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks... [message #156230 is a reply to message #156229] |
Tue, 10 January 2012 14:04 |
glacierfl
Messages: 444
Registered: June 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hello,
I am going to get a new pressure valve fitted to our propane tank.As mentioned they are 30 years old, and that would seem to be a smart move. Getting paranoid, is not really warranted, but if there are a few things that can be done to make safer, then that must be good sense...
cheers and beers
Steve & Debbie
Monticello, FL
77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
EX G4WDT
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| Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks... [message #156231 is a reply to message #156191] |
Tue, 10 January 2012 14:02 |
Greg and April
Messages: 263
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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It wasn't to bad, I had the entire site to myself, and had to do a minimum
of 3 patrols a shift, and a spray bottle of soapy water is one of your best
friends - if you don't smoke, your nose can be more sensitive than some of
the best electronic instruments ( like mine was ), but I will grant that it
is with the qualifier that you are not one of the few people who can't smell
the odorant that is added.
The biggest scare I even had, was very early one morning just after sun up.
I was doing the last walk around of the shift, I went down to the front gate
walked along the fence line, then turned and followed it up the hill to the
back of the property, and then along the back fence, where I could see just
over the top most row of tanks ( 4 banks of 6 tanks ). About half way
along the fence, I heard this loud Wooossssshhhh, like a very poorly tuned
jet engine ( just like when the safety valves in the videos, I turned to
look over the top of the tanks only to see what appeared as a 15-20 foot jet
of burning gas ( just like in the videos ), shooting up from around the
center of the tanks - I took maybe 2 seconds to try and determine if it was
coming from the back row or the front row ( 3 banks of 6 ), but the angle
was bad, and all I could see was just the very tops of the tanks in the back
row.
Well the nearest phone was 200-300 yrds away but I was always a good
sprinter, and I knew I was just dropped off the deep end, so I took off like
a shot, and covered the distance in what seamed like 10 seconds, and I was
just rounding the corner of the office and out of sight of the propane
tanks, when there was dead silence. What the heck?!?!
I stopped short of opening the office door, and continued between the
buildings, until I could carefully look around the corner, and saw ---
nothing. No fire, no smoke, just nothing. What The Heck?!?!!
So I started walking down towards the front gate, eyes locked on the rows of
tanks, and still no indication of the fire that I had seen just a minute
before. I made it to the front gate, and I am still not seeing any
indication of fire or smoke or even scorched paint on the tanks. Ok.....?
So again, I start walking along the front fence line, with my eyes locked on
the propane tanks. I get about half way along the fence line and I stop
dead in my tracks very confused, staring at the tanks looking for evidence
of the fire, and not finding any, when WwooossssHHHH!
Oh Crap!
Wait a second, it's coming from behind me - and the only thing behind me is
the road......I whip around and look only to see a hot air balloon lifting
off from the vacant lot, across the street.
That big jet of burning propane I saw from behind the propane tanks was the
balloonist test firing his burners!
.
Greg H.
I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
to keep me company.
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve & debbie" <zzdebz@yahoo.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 1:20
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] what happens in a RV fire to propane tanks...
>
>
> hello,
>
> Not sure i would have wanted to work there with forty two 55,000 gal
> tanks....
>
> I am beginning to wonder if propane is for me. At the very least have fire
> ext stuff like Jim B sells... Not trying to sell his stuff for him, but
> seeing what could happen, is very scary indeed....
>
> cheers and beers
> --
> Steve & Debbie
> Monticello, FL
> 77 Palm Beach :- Aurora
> EX G4WDT
_______________________________________________
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