Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] 1-ton installation
| [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153181] |
Fri, 16 December 2011 10:15  |
glwgmc
Messages: 1014
Registered: June 2004
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Wow, Ken, what a mess and so hard to find! Sorry you had to go through all of this. The sockets on my rebuilt lower A arms looked full strength and fine when I put them in but I guess only time will tell. Hope you get it all sorted out and back on the road soon. I'm sure you are not a happy camper at the moment, but hang in there as the upgrade will be worth it when you get a proper lower A arm in place. I wonder how many of the ride height issues we hear about on both stock and 1-ton might be related to twisted sockets and not tired torsion bars........
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
Visitors always welcome!
glwork@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
541-592-5360
www.southernoregonguild.org
www.siskiyouguild.org
--------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:43:41 -0500
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Installation
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Message-ID:
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Well, the calculations are still not resolved; I haven't gotten back to
calculations because I've been too greasy. That procedure MAY have solved
my immediate problem. Here's the story -- open the Multimedia file (.pdf)
before trying to understand the photos:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5971
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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78 Royale
Kerby, OR
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153184 is a reply to message #153181] |
Fri, 16 December 2011 10:34  |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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Jerry, I suspect that Control arm torsion bar socket damage is perhaps more
geographical than we consider at first thought. The roads on the eastern
seaboard and snow states are in poor repair compared to the western part of
the US. The pounding that suspension components take there should be
considerably greater as a result. I have seen Lower control arms from motor
homes that had very worn sockets, and Cad Eldo ones that were virtually new
after many years. Specifically, on coaches that I have adjusted ride height
on, I find that the torsion bars are more likely to be the culprit than the
control arm sockets are. Mechanics in the Eastern part of the USA may find
something different. Just a thought.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Work Jerry <glwork@mac.com> wrote:
> Wow, Ken, what a mess and so hard to find! Sorry you had to go through
> all of this. The sockets on my rebuilt lower A arms looked full strength
> and fine when I put them in but I guess only time will tell. Hope you get
> it all sorted out and back on the road soon. I'm sure you are not a happy
> camper at the moment, but hang in there as the upgrade will be worth it
> when you get a proper lower A arm in place. I wonder how many of the ride
> height issues we hear about on both stock and 1-ton might be related to
> twisted sockets and not tired torsion bars........
>
> Jerry
> Jerry Work
> The Dovetail Joint
> Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple
> building in historic Kerby, OR
> Visitors always welcome!
> glwork@mac.com
> http://jerrywork.com
> 541-592-5360
>
> www.southernoregonguild.org
> www.siskiyouguild.org
> --------------------------------
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:43:41 -0500
> From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Installation
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Message-ID:
> <CANsh1i0TW8OiPxmRATXUkJKxz8Xw=TodD+SV=W03K5Y_wJgDgw@mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Well, the calculations are still not resolved; I haven't gotten back to
> calculations because I've been too greasy. That procedure MAY have solved
> my immediate problem. Here's the story -- open the Multimedia file (.pdf)
> before trying to understand the photos:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5971
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
> -----------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153193 is a reply to message #153181] |
Fri, 16 December 2011 12:17 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Awful hard to say whether a coach is "sagging" because of failing torsion
bars or failing A-arms without disassembling it. While this was a dramatic
failure, with the bar turned 30*, there was undoubtedly a long period of
degradation before the rupture that allowed the bar to turn that far.
During that time, the torsion bar would have been my suspect.
Fact is, if I had gone ahead and installed the adjustable pork chops I
have from JimK, the torsion bar MIGHT not have twisted more for a long time
-- though I suspect it would have proceeded to complete failure fairly
soon.
It was the fact that the uneven loading in the socket caused torsion bar to
cock, forcing the aft end of it toward the opposite side of the coach, that
caused me to attempt to remove the TB -- NOT the actual damage itself.
Steve F. tells me it IS possible to reach and reinforce all but one of the
flats of the socket, so maybe arms can be saved if they're caught before
they are too badly distorted.
Gotta go now. Manny wants more pictures so we can figure out where this
arm was originally used, what all has been done to it, and how he can
prevent recurrences.
KenH
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Work Jerry wrote:
> Wow, Ken, what a mess and so hard to find!...
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Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153198 is a reply to message #153193] |
Fri, 16 December 2011 13:04 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Ken, I guess that I did not realize that the Control arm that you pictured
was a recently installed 1 ton setup. I will be installing the 1 ton system
in Ken Henderson's coach in the next few days. I will look very closely at
the torsion bar sockets to see if they resemble your pix. Collectively, we
are smarter than any of use are individually. That is one huge benefit of
the GMC groups. If we all go in "eyes wide open" if is amazing what can be
accomplished. If I can be of any help, please let me know. I do know one
thing for sure. When I adjust ride height on a coach, I put my 6 Ton floor
jack under the balance point of the front crossmember and raise the coach
until my height gages align with the frame slots. I then take the Torsion
bar unloader tool and assemble it around the crossmember and take up the
large 3/4 " bolt until I can feel the adjustment nut relax. I then
completely remove the adjustment bolt and inspect the threads on it and the
nut as well. I usually chase both the threaded parts, lubricate them with
wd-40 and reassemble. I do not raise the coach with the torsion bar tool,
but merely use it to take the load off the adjustment bolt and nut. I
suspect that some of the torsion bar tools are being used to raise coaches,
and more often that not, with an air impact wrench. Wrong application of
air tools in my opinion.
Jim Hupy Tech VP GMCWS
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Awful hard to say whether a coach is "sagging" because of failing torsion
> bars or failing A-arms without disassembling it. While this was a dramatic
> failure, with the bar turned 30*, there was undoubtedly a long period of
> degradation before the rupture that allowed the bar to turn that far.
> During that time, the torsion bar would have been my suspect.
>
> Fact is, if I had gone ahead and installed the adjustable pork chops I
> have from JimK, the torsion bar MIGHT not have twisted more for a long time
> -- though I suspect it would have proceeded to complete failure fairly
> soon.
>
> It was the fact that the uneven loading in the socket caused torsion bar to
> cock, forcing the aft end of it toward the opposite side of the coach, that
> caused me to attempt to remove the TB -- NOT the actual damage itself.
>
> Steve F. tells me it IS possible to reach and reinforce all but one of the
> flats of the socket, so maybe arms can be saved if they're caught before
> they are too badly distorted.
>
> Gotta go now. Manny wants more pictures so we can figure out where this
> arm was originally used, what all has been done to it, and how he can
> prevent recurrences.
>
> KenH
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Work Jerry wrote:
>
> > Wow, Ken, what a mess and so hard to find!...
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153203 is a reply to message #153198] |
Fri, 16 December 2011 14:25 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
Hey, that's great! When will you be arriving? We'll have plenty of time
to visit since only the L. A-arm & TB will need installation. :-)
Ken H.
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 2:04 PM, James Hupy wrote:
> ... I will be installing the 1 ton system
> in Ken Henderson's coach in the next few days...
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Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153204 is a reply to message #153198] |
Fri, 16 December 2011 14:32 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Couldn't resist. :-)
OK, let's see if I understand your procedure, which seems to start with a
coach below ride height: Using center-point jack, you set the ride height.
Now relieve the adjustment bolt, clean it up, & reinstall it. Now, how do
you adjust that bolt to hold the ride height set by the jack? And what
keeps the ride heights from changing as you tinker with the TB tool?
Always looking for a better procedure for that tricky, iterative, job.
Ken H.
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 2:04 PM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ken, I guess that I did not realize that the Control arm that you pictured
> was a recently installed 1 ton setup. I will be installing the 1 ton system
> in Ken Henderson's coach in the next few days. I will look very closely at
> the torsion bar sockets to see if they resemble your pix. Collectively, we
> are smarter than any of use are individually. That is one huge benefit of
> the GMC groups. If we all go in "eyes wide open" if is amazing what can be
> accomplished. If I can be of any help, please let me know. I do know one
> thing for sure. When I adjust ride height on a coach, I put my 6 Ton floor
> jack under the balance point of the front crossmember and raise the coach
> until my height gages align with the frame slots. I then take the Torsion
> bar unloader tool and assemble it around the crossmember and take up the
> large 3/4 " bolt until I can feel the adjustment nut relax. I then
> completely remove the adjustment bolt and inspect the threads on it and the
> nut as well. I usually chase both the threaded parts, lubricate them with
> wd-40 and reassemble. I do not raise the coach with the torsion bar tool,
> but merely use it to take the load off the adjustment bolt and nut. I
> suspect that some of the torsion bar tools are being used to raise coaches,
> and more often that not, with an air impact wrench. Wrong application of
> air tools in my opinion.
> Jim Hupy Tech VP GMCWS
> Salem, OR
> 78 GMC Royale 403
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153218 is a reply to message #153204] |
Fri, 16 December 2011 18:11 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Sorry Ken. Fingers are faster than my brain in this Oregon fog. I hate it.
Most of the time when I do a ride height adjustment, I have the coach on a
level? concrete shop floor. The whole trick is to drive the coach into the
shop and get out and put the ride height gages next to the frame slots. I
have made two REAR ride height gages that function like jack stands, and go
under the frame directly under the slots. I then use the air bags to raise
the ride height so the gages can be placed under the frame. I very
carefully lower the coach until the frame just touches the gages on both
sides. What this accomplishes is to keep the rear from moving while you are
adjusting the front end.
I then put the ride height gages for the front, which set beside the
frame, not under it like the rear gages do. Then I put my floor jack under
the exact balance point of the front crossmember, and raise the front of
the coach until the gages line up with the frame slots.
This is factory ride height. Then, the torsion bar tool can be used to just
unload the adjuster screw. Because most of the time I am only using one
torsion bar unloader tool at a time, I feel that this method cocks the
frame less than if only the tool is used to raise and lower the coach.
After the adjustment bolt is screwed into the nut an amount sufficient to
raise the front end to ride height, all tools are removed, the coach is
lowered, backed out of the shop, and driven several miles to settle the
suspension. Repeat the process, starting with the rear ride height, migrate
to the front, repeat until after a short drive, the coach is driven into
the shop, the gages indicate that the suspension is within specs. ONLY THEN
can alignment be accomplished correctly. It often takes several tries to
get ride height correct. Jerry Work can confirm this. At the SOOR rally the
group did 4 ride height adjustments and alignments in 2 days. We were not
standing around eating seafood and enjoying happy hour all the time. During
the same time Manny T did two 1 ton front end conversions complete. That
guy is a working dynamo. You just have to get the heck out of his way and
hand him stuff, and keep him supplied with fresh disposable gloves. I hope
this better explains why I do ride height adjustments the way I do. Doesn't
make me right and everyone else wrong, it is just my way. What someone else
does that achieves correct ride height is the goal. Lots of ways around the
barn.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Couldn't resist. :-)
>
> OK, let's see if I understand your procedure, which seems to start with a
> coach below ride height: Using center-point jack, you set the ride height.
> Now relieve the adjustment bolt, clean it up, & reinstall it. Now, how do
> you adjust that bolt to hold the ride height set by the jack? And what
> keeps the ride heights from changing as you tinker with the TB tool?
>
> Always looking for a better procedure for that tricky, iterative, job.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 2:04 PM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ken, I guess that I did not realize that the Control arm that you
> pictured
> > was a recently installed 1 ton setup. I will be installing the 1 ton
> system
> > in Ken Henderson's coach in the next few days. I will look very closely
> at
> > the torsion bar sockets to see if they resemble your pix. Collectively,
> we
> > are smarter than any of use are individually. That is one huge benefit of
> > the GMC groups. If we all go in "eyes wide open" if is amazing what can
> be
> > accomplished. If I can be of any help, please let me know. I do know one
> > thing for sure. When I adjust ride height on a coach, I put my 6 Ton
> floor
> > jack under the balance point of the front crossmember and raise the coach
> > until my height gages align with the frame slots. I then take the Torsion
> > bar unloader tool and assemble it around the crossmember and take up the
> > large 3/4 " bolt until I can feel the adjustment nut relax. I then
> > completely remove the adjustment bolt and inspect the threads on it and
> the
> > nut as well. I usually chase both the threaded parts, lubricate them with
> > wd-40 and reassemble. I do not raise the coach with the torsion bar tool,
> > but merely use it to take the load off the adjustment bolt and nut. I
> > suspect that some of the torsion bar tools are being used to raise
> coaches,
> > and more often that not, with an air impact wrench. Wrong application of
> > air tools in my opinion.
> > Jim Hupy Tech VP GMCWS
> > Salem, OR
> > 78 GMC Royale 403
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153234 is a reply to message #153198] |
Fri, 16 December 2011 21:48 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Keeping on the same subject of TB and A arm sockets. Is some of the wear caused by lack of lubrication? The book says to grease the socket at assembly, but I didn't see anything about a time interval to re-lubricate. Does anyone know? Does anyone do it?
I'm not saying that lubrication can take the place of proper reinforcement of the socket and A arm, but we know that wear is greatly accelerated without lubrication.
A thought and a question.
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153240 is a reply to message #153234] |
Fri, 16 December 2011 22:27 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I'm thoroughly convinced that the damage to the arm was NOT caused by lack
of lubrication. It was caused by excessive torque on the torsion bar/A-arm
imposing too much stress on the wall of the socket. There's no sign of
significant wear, nor would I expect there to be since there should be
little relative motion between the bar and socket with the interface
continually loaded.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Adrien Genesoto wrote:
>
>
> Keeping on the same subject of TB and A arm sockets. Is some of the wear
> caused by lack of lubrication? The book says to grease the socket at
> assembly, but I didn't see anything about a time interval to re-lubricate.
> Does anyone know? Does anyone do it?
>
> I'm not saying that lubrication can take the place of proper reinforcement
> of the socket and A arm, but we know that wear is greatly accelerated
> without lubrication.
> ...
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Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153248 is a reply to message #153184] |
Fri, 16 December 2011 23:01 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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When people with not enough experience and depth in time tackle a
project and convince others that they know it all and want to make
someone look like robbers, things start surfacing.
Bill Hubler and I have been aware of these issues and along with Steve Fergason.
The 3 of us along with the other people like the late Clarence
Buskirk and others that have delt with these issues have put in time
to inspect and beef up parts are ignored, then this is but one problem
that will surface. More will surface as people use them.
Great number of people have told me to sit tite and let the cards fall
and they will see.
This problem has very little to do with geographical area.
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 8:34 AM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jerry, I suspect that Control arm torsion bar socket damage is perhaps more
> geographical than we consider at first thought. The roads on the eastern
> seaboard and snow states are in poor repair compared to the western part of
> the US. The pounding that suspension components take there should be
> considerably greater as a result. I have seen Lower control arms from motor
> homes that had very worn sockets, and Cad Eldo ones that were virtually new
> after many years. Specifically, on coaches that I have adjusted ride height
> on, I find that the torsion bars are more likely to be the culprit than the
> control arm sockets are. Mechanics in the Eastern part of the USA may find
> something different. Just a thought.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, OR
> 78 GMC Royale 403
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Work Jerry <glwork@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Wow, Ken, what a mess and so hard to find! Sorry you had to go through
>> all of this. The sockets on my rebuilt lower A arms looked full strength
>> and fine when I put them in but I guess only time will tell. Hope you get
>> it all sorted out and back on the road soon. I'm sure you are not a happy
>> camper at the moment, but hang in there as the upgrade will be worth it
>> when you get a proper lower A arm in place. I wonder how many of the ride
>> height issues we hear about on both stock and 1-ton might be related to
>> twisted sockets and not tired torsion bars........
>>
>> Jerry
>> Jerry Work
>> The Dovetail Joint
>> Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple
>> building in historic Kerby, OR
>> Visitors always welcome!
>> glwork@mac.com
>> http://jerrywork.com
>> 541-592-5360
>>
>> www.southernoregonguild.org
>> www.siskiyouguild.org
>> --------------------------------
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:43:41 -0500
>> From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Installation
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Message-ID:
>> <CANsh1i0TW8OiPxmRATXUkJKxz8Xw=TodD+SV=W03K5Y_wJgDgw@mail.gmail.com
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Well, the calculations are still not resolved; I haven't gotten back to
>> calculations because I've been too greasy. That procedure MAY have solved
>> my immediate problem. Here's the story -- open the Multimedia file (.pdf)
>> before trying to understand the photos:
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5971
>>
>> Ken H.
>> Americus, GA
>> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
>> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153262 is a reply to message #153184] |
Sat, 17 December 2011 07:56 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
I get cores from all over the US and geography doesn't seem to be much of
a factor. I am convinced that the primary cause for torsion bar bellowing
or splitting is from driving the coaches with worn control arm bushings,
worn or nearly non-existant shock absorber bushings, worn out shocks, and
the above are all aggravated by overloading. (Give that some consideration
next time you guys hang additional batteries over the LF wheel.) Now, add
that to the poor condition of many of our roads and highways and you end up
with a diminishing source of repairable lower GMC control arms.
I have tried with nearly no success to repair bellowed TB sockets,
heating and spot cooling etc and I feel confident is saying that once a TB
socket is damaged, it cannot be repaired. There is no source of material
for new ones unless someone wants to purchase a 1,000' (min) mill run of
the extrusion. Then you would have to build a jig to get the angle of
installation correct.
I'll say it again, if you have original bushings in your GMC, they were
junk many years ago regardless of mileage.
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:34 AM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jerry, I suspect that Control arm torsion bar socket damage is perhaps more
> geographical than we consider at first thought. The roads on the eastern
> seaboard and snow states are in poor repair compared to the western part of
> the US. The pounding that suspension components take there should be
> considerably greater as a result. I have seen Lower control arms from motor
> homes that had very worn sockets, and Cad Eldo ones that were virtually new
> after many years. Specifically, on coaches that I have adjusted ride height
> on, I find that the torsion bars are more likely to be the culprit than the
> control arm sockets are. Mechanics in the Eastern part of the USA may find
> something different. Just a thought.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, OR
> 78 GMC Royale 403
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Work Jerry <glwork@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > Wow, Ken, what a mess and so hard to find! Sorry you had to go through
> > all of this. The sockets on my rebuilt lower A arms looked full strength
> > and fine when I put them in but I guess only time will tell. Hope you
> get
> > it all sorted out and back on the road soon. I'm sure you are not a
> happy
> > camper at the moment, but hang in there as the upgrade will be worth it
> > when you get a proper lower A arm in place. I wonder how many of the
> ride
> > height issues we hear about on both stock and 1-ton might be related to
> > twisted sockets and not tired torsion bars........
> >
> > Jerry
> > Jerry Work
> > The Dovetail Joint
> > Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic
> Temple
> > building in historic Kerby, OR
> > Visitors always welcome!
> > glwork@mac.com
> > http://jerrywork.com
> > 541-592-5360
> >
> > www.southernoregonguild.org
> > www.siskiyouguild.org
> > --------------------------------
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:43:41 -0500
> > From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 1-Ton Installation
> > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > Message-ID:
> > <CANsh1i0TW8OiPxmRATXUkJKxz8Xw=TodD+SV=
> W03K5Y_wJgDgw@mail.gmail.com
> > >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Well, the calculations are still not resolved; I haven't gotten back to
> > calculations because I've been too greasy. That procedure MAY have
> solved
> > my immediate problem. Here's the story -- open the Multimedia file
> (.pdf)
> > before trying to understand the photos:
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5971
> >
> > Ken H.
> > Americus, GA
> > '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> > -----------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Fathom the hypocrisy of a nation where every citizen must prove they have
health insurance......but not everyone has to prove they're a citizen.
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153264 is a reply to message #153248] |
Sat, 17 December 2011 08:10 |
jack spenser
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2005
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
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INCREDIBLY STUPID POSTS LIKE THIS
make it clear you , Jim, should stop posting to the net.
It makes it very hard to consider you a credible vendor with
inaccurate, negative posts like this one.
When have you said anything good about your own suppliers?
> When people with not enough experience
You have supplied 4 maybe 5 one ton kits, using too short axles, and
junkyard parts.
When you have installed 50 or 60 kits, you might be qualified to comment here.
You have no right to quote these people.
> Bill Hubler and I have been aware of these issues
Bill no longer makes these modified control arms, in fact he put
Manny's kit on his own coach.
and along with Steve Fergason.
Steve no longer does control arm restoration, since you sold "his"
inventory of returned control arms to Manny.
Clarence
> Buskirk
When Clarence was a player ,he did not even know your name,
> to inspect and beef up parts are ignored, then this is but one problem
You have never built ,one, lower control arm, or provided any upgrades
to the kits.
Unless you support your suppliers, and update your products, you will
soon have nothing to sell.
STOP POSTING TO THE GMCNET.
you are killing us (your friends), and the GMC community.
try to help, not hurt.
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153268 is a reply to message #153248] |
Sat, 17 December 2011 09:51 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
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Jim,
I find that message more offensive than the problem I had. It demeans
Manny, me, and all those who have installed Manny's kit. It implies that
Manny's incompetent and that those of us following his lead are foolish.
It also makes you seem mean and vindictive over Manny's effort to do
something good for the entire community. When you refer to supposed
still-to-surface problems, without naming them, you undermine your
credibility as having the best interests of the community at heart; your
commercial interests appear more important than either helpfulness or even
simple civility. I don't recall having found seen a recommendation like
that in "How to Win Friends and Influence People".
Attacking others even once, much less repeatedly, does not vibe with my
concept of the civility and cooperativeness to which GMCNet should adhere.
I think you owe all of us an apology; and, more care about your comments in
the future. That moderation should also include acceptance of the fact
that there are other legitimate parts outlets and that we should not be any
more inhibited about sharing our knowledge of "bargains" than we are about
sharing our opinions of tires.
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jim Kanomata wrote:
> When people with not enough experience and depth in time tackle a
> project and convince others that they know it all and want to make
> someone look like robbers, things start surfacing.
> Bill Hubler and I have been aware of these issues and along with Steve
> Fergason.
> The 3 of us along with the other people like the late Clarence
> Buskirk and others that have delt with these issues have put in time
> to inspect and beef up parts are ignored, then this is but one problem
> that will surface. More will surface as people use them.
> Great number of people have told me to sit tite and let the cards fall
> and they will see.
> This problem has very little to do with geographical area.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153272 is a reply to message #153268] |
Sat, 17 December 2011 10:09 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
""That moderation should also include acceptance of the fact
that there are other legitimate parts outlets and that we should not be any
more inhibited about sharing our knowledge of "bargains" than we are about
sharing our opinions of tires.
::
Ken, I suspect you thought long and hard before posting that. I have been following your posts on this with great interest and your learnings will be valuable for all of us--in fact I think the thread has been one of the best I have followed for a long time. As usual, your energy, curiosity and willingness to share makes you a perfect example of what this net is all about!!
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153273 is a reply to message #153268] |
Sat, 17 December 2011 10:06 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I want to be known for saying positive things :)
So
Manny is our only hope for the future
Only vendor working the torsion bar problem
Only one who will do custom fixes
Up grades the kit every day
Buying parts in quantity
Supply's every one
Learns from every install
Who's only motive is to do things right
Etc
Gene at
FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
On Dec 17, 2011, at 7:51 AM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Jim,
>
> I find that message more offensive than the problem I had. It demeans
> Manny, me, and all those who have installed Manny's kit. It implies that
> Manny's incompetent and that those of us following his lead are foolish.
> It also makes you seem mean and vindictive over Manny's effort to do
> something good for the entire community. When you refer to supposed
> still-to-surface problems, without naming them, you undermine your
> credibility as having the best interests of the community at heart; your
> commercial interests appear more important than either helpfulness or even
> simple civility. I don't recall having found seen a recommendation like
> that in "How to Win Friends and Influence People".
>
> Attacking others even once, much less repeatedly, does not vibe with my
> concept of the civility and cooperativeness to which GMCNet should adhere.
>
> I think you owe all of us an apology; and, more care about your comments in
> the future. That moderation should also include acceptance of the fact
> that there are other legitimate parts outlets and that we should not be any
> more inhibited about sharing our knowledge of "bargains" than we are about
> sharing our opinions of tires.
>
> Ken Henderson
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Jim Kanomata wrote:
>
>> When people with not enough experience and depth in time tackle a
>> project and convince others that they know it all and want to make
>> someone look like robbers, things start surfacing.
>> Bill Hubler and I have been aware of these issues and along with Steve
>> Fergason.
>> The 3 of us along with the other people like the late Clarence
>> Buskirk and others that have delt with these issues have put in time
>> to inspect and beef up parts are ignored, then this is but one problem
>> that will surface. More will surface as people use them.
>> Great number of people have told me to sit tite and let the cards fall
>> and they will see.
>> This problem has very little to do with geographical area.
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153281 is a reply to message #153248] |
Sat, 17 December 2011 11:07 |
Kirk
Messages: 80
Registered: April 2008
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
Jim, I am REALLY getting tired of your sniping at Manny for trying to do something good for the rest of us, and at little, if any, profit. Your piling on and over-commercialization of GMCNet is doing you more harm than good. You are correct when you say "things start surfacing" but it reflects more on you than others. Please consider an apology.
Kirk & Eloise Yeager -
Motorcyclists/RVers/Dog Lovers -
77 Royale 455/TBI/3:55 -
49ers - N. Nevada -
NdnKirk at Gmail dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153282 is a reply to message #153264] |
Sat, 17 December 2011 11:23 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jack,
I stand corrected in some of what you said, but you better understand one thing,
Clarence Buskirk and I knew each other back in1993 till he passed
away, so You need to correct yourself there. He and I had a business
relationship as he was one of the first to purchase the 3.55 gear set
from us and we worked on some projects on the Cad engines.
To all the others that felt I insulted them I''m sorry.
I have been running a multi million business for over 28 years and
have faced many frustrations,but this really takes the cake. as it is
personal and I should have treated it that way.
I stand corrected and accept them starting now..
On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 6:10 AM, jack spenser <jspenser@gmail.com> wrote:
> INCREDIBLY STUPID POSTS LIKE THIS
> make it clear you , Jim, should stop posting to the net.
>
> It makes it very hard to consider you a credible vendor with
> inaccurate, negative posts like this one.
>
> When have you said anything good about your own suppliers?
>
>> When people with not enough experience
>
> You have supplied 4 maybe 5 one ton kits, using too short axles, and
> junkyard parts.
> When you have installed 50 or 60 kits, you might be qualified to comment here.
>
> You have no right to quote these people.
>
>> Bill Hubler and I have been aware of these issues
> Bill no longer makes these modified control arms, in fact he put
> Manny's kit on his own coach.
>
> and along with Steve Fergason.
> Steve no longer does control arm restoration, since you sold "his"
> inventory of returned control arms to Manny.
>
> Clarence
>> Buskirk
>
> When Clarence was a player ,he did not even know your name,
>
>
>> to inspect and beef up parts are ignored, then this is but one problem
>
> You have never built ,one, lower control arm, or provided any upgrades
> to the kits.
>
> Unless you support your suppliers, and update your products, you will
> soon have nothing to sell.
>
> STOP POSTING TO THE GMCNET.
> you are killing us (your friends), and the GMC community.
> try to help, not hurt.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] 1-ton installation [message #153284 is a reply to message #153282] |
Sat, 17 December 2011 11:34 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Kirk,
I feel the best form of appology from me is to seee how I conduct
myself from this day forward.
As I mentioned, I stand corrected by people I know and respect enough
to show up in the right perspective.
Ken and Kirk, I apppreciate your feedback and have taken it to heart
.
5 one ton kits, using too short axles, and
>> junkyard parts.
>> When you have installed 50 or 60 kits, you might be qualified to comment here.
>>
>> You have no right to quote these people.
>>
>>> Bill Hubler and I have been aware of these issues
>> Bill no longer makes these modified control arms, in fact he put
>> Manny's kit on his own coach.
>>
>> and along with Steve Fergason.
>> Steve no longer does control arm restoration, since you sold "his"
>> inventory of returned control arms to Manny.
>>
>> Clarence
>>> Buskirk
>>
>> When Clarence was a player ,he did not even know your name,
>>
>>
>>> to inspect and beef up parts are ignored, then this is but one problem
>>
>> You have never built ,one, lower control arm, or provided any upgrades
>> to the kits.
>>
>> Unless you support your suppliers, and update your products, you will
>> soon have nothing to sell.
>>
>> STOP POSTING TO THE GMCNET.
>> you are killing us (your friends), and the GMC community.
>> try to help, not hurt.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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