Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater...
| [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151193] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 13:15  |
Gary Berry
Messages: 1002
Registered: May 2005
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Hey All;
I have this propane water heater in the Stretch (I know other
models came with a propane water heater). I've often wondered if I
could use it to do some kind of heating of the bed area either while
running down the road or when parked at the WalMart for the night. If
I did some kind of recirculating pump/radiator setup, would this be
more efficient (as concerns the propane and battery usage) than using
the standard heater which heats up the whole coach and never quite
gets the bedroom area warm)? Maybe I could just tie in one of Arch's
front heater setups. Just wondering as I'm getting ready to tear the
bedroom apart for some updating and this would be a good time to do
something.
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151197 is a reply to message #151193] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 13:59  |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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I've been playing around with a similar idea. I found these on Ebay......12vdc
heat exchangers........not sure what the BTU rating would be, but these are
compact and nice. They certainly could be connected to the engine coolant, not
sure about the water heater yet.
http://tinyurl.com/ctf6rad
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, December 1, 2011 1:15:24 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater...
Hey All;
I have this propane water heater in the Stretch (I know other
models came with a propane water heater). I've often wondered if I
could use it to do some kind of heating of the bed area either while
running down the road or when parked at the WalMart for the night. If
I did some kind of recirculating pump/radiator setup, would this be
more efficient (as concerns the propane and battery usage) than using
the standard heater which heats up the whole coach and never quite
gets the bedroom area warm)? Maybe I could just tie in one of Arch's
front heater setups. Just wondering as I'm getting ready to tear the
bedroom apart for some updating and this would be a good time to do
something.
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151199 is a reply to message #151194] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 14:48 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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I would love to find a solution for better heating.
Most of our camping is dry camping....no water, no electric.
For 80% of the season when it's warm out, we can easily get by with our
batteries for powering the water pump and lighting. But for the 20% when we
camp in cold weather, it's a challenge. The furnace uses a lot of power and it
can draw the batteries down quick. Plus, our Royale had rear twin beds.....we
converted them to one huge king bed which really closes off that area in the
rear. There isn't a good way to get a good size heat duct back there from the
furnace which is way up front under the sofa, so we have a small 3" duct with a
booster fan in it, this fan along with the furnace fans suck the life out of the
batteries fast.
So in cold weather, to save the batteries, we freeze and it's not fun !!
Some type of Hydronic system that didn't require a power hungry circulation pump
would be great ?
A propane catalytic heater ???
Let's pool our brains and figure something out.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Worobec <gtw5@earthlink.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, December 1, 2011 1:39:36 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater...
Gary, Great idea, I would be interested in whatever you come up with. While
we have a 23 it does get a bit chilly in the back at night.
Thanks
Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Berry" <duallycc@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 11:15 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater...
Hey All;
I have this propane water heater in the Stretch (I know other
models came with a propane water heater). I've often wondered if I
could use it to do some kind of heating of the bed area either while
running down the road or when parked at the WalMart for the night. If
I did some kind of recirculating pump/radiator setup, would this be
more efficient (as concerns the propane and battery usage) than using
the standard heater which heats up the whole coach and never quite
gets the bedroom area warm)? Maybe I could just tie in one of Arch's
front heater setups. Just wondering as I'm getting ready to tear the
bedroom apart for some updating and this would be a good time to do
something.
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151201 is a reply to message #151194] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 14:55 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Well, let's brain-storm this thing.
In my mind you could either do this with a passive radiator or a radiator with a fan (like the axillary units found on buses, etc.). Both would require a water pump that would take some electricity and the radiator with a fan would, of course, also need electricity for the fan. A pump would probably draw, what, 1 - 2 amps? I'd be inclined to mount the pump on the return side of the system where the "cold" water returns to the water heater. The liquid flow is the easiest part of the whole thing - a couple of T fittings on the hot and cold side with a pump mounted on the cold side.
If you go with a passive radiator I might mount it under the cabinet over the head of the bed (I have a Palm Beach) perhaps with some kind of reflector. A longer radiator under the rear window might work well as the cold glass would cause some natural air flow. Maybe a "hydronic" unit mounted in the floor or just under the sofa cushions could do the trick too, but it would take some time to warm the space with the bed over the top of the heater. Then again this might make for a great bed-warmer, though I prefer Isabel for this...
Come to think of it passive at the window probably wouldn't work too well. Many folks have already boxed in the window with valances to prevent the draft you get from the cold window.
An active unit, with a fan, would probably warm the space more quickly, but where to mount it? Also - you have to deal with the noise of the fan just while you are trying to quiet your mind for a good night's sleep.
Now, what about the control system? With a passive system you would want a thermostat that would kick on the pump at and turn it off some time before reaching the desired temperature - as the heat will continue after the pump shuts off. Maybe I'm just over-thinking this, but I could imagine a regular thermostat making the are too hot. I think they call these "anticipators" and are part of a thermostat that might even be adjustable. I wouldn't worry as much about an active system.
With your propane water heater already in place you could add zones to the front of the coach too and remove the forced air heater all together and seal up the ugly warts on the side of the coach.
Oh, wait, your question was if this is more efficient than the forced air heater, wasn't it. Hmmm, that one is over my pay grade...
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
The Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151202 is a reply to message #151201] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 15:09 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Also with a closed loop water system I may need an expansion tank as I have a
tankless water heater.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, December 1, 2011 2:55:21 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater...
Well, let's brain-storm this thing.
In my mind you could either do this with a passive radiator or a radiator with a
fan (like the axillary units found on buses, etc.). Both would require a water
pump that would take some electricity and the radiator with a fan would, of
course, also need electricity for the fan. A pump would probably draw, what, 1 -
2 amps? I'd be inclined to mount the pump on the return side of the system where
the "cold" water returns to the water heater. The liquid flow is the easiest
part of the whole thing - a couple of T fittings on the hot and cold side with a
pump mounted on the cold side.
If you go with a passive radiator I might mount it under the cabinet over the
head of the bed (I have a Palm Beach) perhaps with some kind of reflector. A
longer radiator under the rear window might work well as the cold glass would
cause some natural air flow. Maybe a "hydronic" unit mounted in the floor or
just under the sofa cushions could do the trick too, but it would take some time
to warm the space with the bed over the top of the heater. Then again this might
make for a great bed-warmer, though I prefer Isabel for this...
Come to think of it passive at the window probably wouldn't work too well. Many
folks have already boxed in the window with valances to prevent the draft you
get from the cold window.
An active unit, with a fan, would probably warm the space more quickly, but
where to mount it? Also - you have to deal with the noise of the fan just while
you are trying to quiet your mind for a good night's sleep.
Now, what about the control system? With a passive system you would want a
thermostat that would kick on the pump at and turn it off some time before
reaching the desired temperature - as the heat will continue after the pump
shuts off. Maybe I'm just over-thinking this, but I could imagine a regular
thermostat making the are too hot. I think they call these "anticipators" and
are part of a thermostat that might even be adjustable. I wouldn't worry as much
about an active system.
With your propane water heater already in place you could add zones to the front
of the coach too and remove the forced air heater all together and seal up the
ugly warts on the side of the coach.
Oh, wait, your question was if this is more efficient than the forced air
heater, wasn't it. Hmmm, that one is over my pay grade...
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
The Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151224 is a reply to message #151197] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 18:40 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Go to Ugra directly, the list price is $39.00, at the bottom of the page
they also have a water pump for $25 to go with this heat exchanger.
http://ugracnc.com/CNC-SPINDLE-ACCESSORIES/Heat-Exchanger-For-Water-Cooling-System.html
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Ray Erspamer <78gmc-royale@att.net> wrote:
> I've been playing around with a similar idea. I found these on
> Ebay......12vdc
> heat exchangers........not sure what the BTU rating would be, but these are
> compact and nice. They certainly could be connected to the engine
> coolant, not
> sure about the water heater yet.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ctf6rad
>
> Ray
>
>
> Ray & Lisa Erspamer
> 78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
> Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
> Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
> Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
> 414-745-3188
> Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Thu, December 1, 2011 1:15:24 PM
> Subject: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater...
>
> Hey All;
> I have this propane water heater in the Stretch (I know other
> models came with a propane water heater). I've often wondered if I
> could use it to do some kind of heating of the bed area either while
> running down the road or when parked at the WalMart for the night. If
> I did some kind of recirculating pump/radiator setup, would this be
> more efficient (as concerns the propane and battery usage) than using
> the standard heater which heats up the whole coach and never quite
> gets the bedroom area warm)? Maybe I could just tie in one of Arch's
> front heater setups. Just wondering as I'm getting ready to tear the
> bedroom apart for some updating and this would be a good time to do
> something.
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Bruce Hart
GMC Wannabe
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151233 is a reply to message #151229] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 19:39 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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| Gary Berry wrote on Thu, 01 December 2011 17:05 |
I like the heat exchanger, but the pump is 110VAC. Need to find a
12VDC pump. I wonder if an electric fuel pump would work. Then have to
figure out how many GPH the pump needs to be.
|
Don't forget that the btuh input of the hot water heater is not all that high, I believe 6 or 8,000 so it is not a huge source of heat. You can check that number by looking at the label in the water heater. It certainly is not any more efficient than the regular furnace, maybe 60 to 70% of the propane energy going in produces heat for the water.
One gal of water weighs 8.3 pounds. One pound of water raised one degree F (or cooled one degree F) transfers 1 btu. Lets say you water cools 15 degrees in going through you loop. So, each gal. (8.3 pounds) will transfer 8.3 x 15 = 125 btu. In one hour one gal circulated would transfer 1 x 125 x 60 min = 7470 btuh.
So a pump which will ciruclate about 60 gal/hr or 1 gpm will do the transfer of about all the heat the water heater will produce.
You need the pump energy, the fan energy if you have a fan forced heater. I am not convinced that you either have a more efficient system in terms of propane used or in terms of 12 volt power used vs. the normal furnace.
Just some more input for you to consider.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151240 is a reply to message #151194] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 20:01 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Gary B,
Jim Anstett of Colorado heated his 23' using engine coolent, and
possibly a seperate tank.
It has been over 25 years ago .
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Gary Worobec <gtw5@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Gary, Great idea, I would be interested in whatever you come up with. While
> we have a 23 it does get a bit chilly in the back at night.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary and Joanne Worobec
> 1973 GMC Glacier
> Anza, CA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Berry" <duallycc@gmail.com>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 11:15 AM
> Subject: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater...
>
>
> Hey All;
> I have this propane water heater in the Stretch (I know other
> models came with a propane water heater). I've often wondered if I
> could use it to do some kind of heating of the bed area either while
> running down the road or when parked at the WalMart for the night. If
> I did some kind of recirculating pump/radiator setup, would this be
> more efficient (as concerns the propane and battery usage) than using
> the standard heater which heats up the whole coach and never quite
> gets the bedroom area warm)? Maybe I could just tie in one of Arch's
> front heater setups. Just wondering as I'm getting ready to tear the
> bedroom apart for some updating and this would be a good time to do
> something.
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151244 is a reply to message #151243] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 20:17 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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Sometimes, trying to maximize the waste heat in any system becomes more trouble than it's worth.
Next month I'm going to be taking apart a heat exchange system we had in an old office building.
There were about 15kw of servers in the server room and we would pump the heat into the office area during the winter, and out of the building in the summer. It was a duct system with block-offs.
Think I was about 10 years short of getting a payback<<G>>
Dolph
On Dec 1, 2011, at 9:15 PM, Gary Berry wrote:
> Hey;
>
> Not interested at this time in using the engine coolant to heat
> anything. I would just like to add some heat to the bedroom area and
> not heat up the whole coach with the furnace. We can close off the
> bedroom area (twin beds) with the closet door(or the bathroom door if
> we wanted to heat the bathroom area) so even if the propane water
> heater is a little less efficient I think the savings might be in
> heating up a much smaller area just during the night. It was
> interesting to see the math of this system.
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Gary B,
>> Jim Anstett of Colorado heated his 23' using engine coolent, and
>> possibly a seperate tank.
>> It has been over 25 years ago .
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151250 is a reply to message #151193] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 20:48 |
 |
mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Gary Berry wrote on Thu, 01 December 2011 11:15 |
... I've often wondered if I
could use it to do some kind of heating of the bed area either while
running down the road or when parked at the WalMart for the night. ...
|
Most coaches came with engine pre-heat for the water heater. As you are running down the road the water heater can produce LOTS of hot water.
Most coaches have the fresh water tank under the bed.
Why not use this to warm up the water in the fresh water tank while running down the road so you have a hot water bottle under your bed while parked at Wall-Mart?
use a timer or temp sensor with something like this idea:
<http://www.yandina.com/hints.htm#Water>
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151252 is a reply to message #151240] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 20:47 |
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Found it!
Motorhome Marketplace, November 1994, Jims Gems by Jim Anstett
"In the compartment under the bathroom sink is a red valve with which we can
turn on (or off) our hot water heat. We ran thin tubing throughout the coach
-- circling it twice. In cold weather, we open this valve so heated engine
water can travel through the coach's walls. With this setup the coach stays
warm from one end to the other and the cost of running such a system is
negligible. It heats every wall and anything under the bed. Heat exchangers
run under both the fresh water and gray water tanks; they heat the water in
each tank so when we stop at night the water radiates heat keeping the coach
warm all night long. There was a time we were caught in a snow storm that
forced all traffic from the Interstates and closed them. We parked in -20 0
temperatures, I turned the furnace up to 70, and it did not run half the
night. The system, which was installed when we first bought the coach, has
never needed to be drained and has been copied by several other motorhome
owners."
Just cuz I could
bdub
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
Jim Anstett of Colorado heated his 23' using engine coolent, and possibly a
seperate tank.
It has been over 25 years ago .
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bdub
bdub.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151263 is a reply to message #151224] |
Thu, 01 December 2011 22:17 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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I like the info that the fans only uses .25 amps......my Suburban low profile
furnace uses 7 amps !
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
----- Original Message ----
From: Bruce Hart <hartsgmc@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, December 1, 2011 6:40:44 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater...
Go to Ugra directly, the list price is $39.00, at the bottom of the page
they also have a water pump for $25 to go with this heat exchanger.
http://ugracnc.com/CNC-SPINDLE-ACCESSORIES/Heat-Exchanger-For-Water-Cooling-System.html
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Ray Erspamer <78gmc-royale@att.net> wrote:
> I've been playing around with a similar idea. I found these on
> Ebay......12vdc
> heat exchangers........not sure what the BTU rating would be, but these are
> compact and nice. They certainly could be connected to the engine
> coolant, not
> sure about the water heater yet.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ctf6rad
>
> Ray
>
>
> Ray & Lisa Erspamer
> 78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
> Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
> Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
> Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
> 414-745-3188
> Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Thu, December 1, 2011 1:15:24 PM
> Subject: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater...
>
> Hey All;
> I have this propane water heater in the Stretch (I know other
> models came with a propane water heater). I've often wondered if I
> could use it to do some kind of heating of the bed area either while
> running down the road or when parked at the WalMart for the night. If
> I did some kind of recirculating pump/radiator setup, would this be
> more efficient (as concerns the propane and battery usage) than using
> the standard heater which heats up the whole coach and never quite
> gets the bedroom area warm)? Maybe I could just tie in one of Arch's
> front heater setups. Just wondering as I'm getting ready to tear the
> bedroom apart for some updating and this would be a good time to do
> something.
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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--
Bruce Hart
GMC Wannabe
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane Water Heater... [message #151284 is a reply to message #151193] |
Fri, 02 December 2011 01:45 |
Richard Brown
Messages: 281
Registered: May 2009
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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It would almost do to find a used propane-fired RV water heater (not tankless) to hook onto a water heating system. That would solve the problem of needing an expansion tank. You would have to use a 12V recirc pump & a small tank at the highest point with a cap to fill the system & allow for expansion. Just out of curiosity, I looked on EBay & there are several, but they're not cheap..No idea how much gas it would use, but if the tank is well insulated it wouldn't need to run constantly, just when the water cooled off. I've seen a few of them bodged together & they worked well. I don't see why it wouldn't be able to use an antifreeze mix if it's made as a discrete system. I can even imagine that a loop similar to the factory engine heat coil like the stock water heater couldn't be added. I'm thinking about this because the GMC water heater is electric & kind of small, anyway.
Someone I used to go hunting with did that to his dear lease travel trailer & it worked well. He got all the major parts from various salvage yards except for the heater itself. He used a remote heater & fan from a Suburban or something to that effect. He already had an old water heater lying around. Everything in it was battery or gas. He used a small gas generator to charge up the batteries.
I've seen solar furnaces in Mother Earth News, so there may be other ideas that work better in that magazine. Just throwing ideas out there. They're worth what you pay for them...
Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
"DILLIGAF"
Lindale, Tx. 75771
903-881-0192
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Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
1174 Hickory Hills Dr.
Murchison, TX. 75778
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.
. That means you have a smaller area to try and keep warm. What is the point if the heat you are trying to maintain is simply heating up the rest of the coach, when you want the bedroom nice and cosy. I know thats not going to solve the heating problem but perhaps it is part final solution. !!!!