Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION
| [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149064] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 05:37  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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Welcome to the beginning of the camping season on the Left Coast
The 49ers are going to have a fun rally this weekend in Woodland, ca.
One of the discussions, is going to be on adjusting the v-belts on a GMC.
This is a fun topic, since I have not found a 100% correct, GMC yet ;>)
this shows part of the discussion
http://goo.gl/v2GJ8
along with
- belt selection
- belt alignment
- pulley selection
- tension tools
- 455 and 403 differences
- 1/64 " deflection per inch of distance between pulleys - v-belt testing
should be fun
gene
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149087 is a reply to message #149064] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 10:09  |
Don A
Messages: 895
Registered: October 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
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<<<<The 49ers are going to have a fun rally this weekend in Woodland, ca.
One of the discussions, is going to be on adjusting the v-belts on a GMC.>>>>
I'm interested if there are any problems with belt slippage on the power steering pump when hard turning after installing the double pulley on the alternator?
Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149089 is a reply to message #149087] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 10:24 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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i would think so, the double pulley cuts the belt contact in half (on the
PS PUMP) from the oem setup.
and
should not be necessary if the alternator belt is aligned, and tensioned
correctly.
gene
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:09 AM, Don Adams <dj.adams@att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> <<<<The 49ers are going to have a fun rally this weekend in Woodland, ca.
> One of the discussions, is going to be on adjusting the v-belts on a
> GMC.>>>>
>
>
> I'm interested if there are any problems with belt slippage on the power
> steering pump when hard turning after installing the double pulley on the
> alternator?
>
>
>
> --
> Don
> Dallas, TX
> 1976 26' Glenbrook
> rebuilt by R Archer
> powered by J Bounds, Koba
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149090 is a reply to message #149087] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 10:29 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Don A wrote on Tue, 08 November 2011 08:09 |
...
I'm interested if there are any problems with belt slippage on the power steering pump when hard turning after installing the double pulley on the alternator?
|
I have a double pulley set up on my '78. I haven't had any issues with the PS pump even when I would get belt squeal from the AC (different belt), the fan clutch (2 out of three belts) or even the alternator (same two belts). I think the PS pump takes the least power of all the accessories. If it is tight enough for the rest, it should be good for the PS pump.
But that might be different if you have hydro-boost brakes.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149100 is a reply to message #149087] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 11:58 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Don,
You neeed to move the ps pump all the way out so that the blte willl
have the max wrap.
We have not had the ps pump sliping after the doubble pully install.
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:09 AM, Don Adams <dj.adams@att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> <<<<The 49ers are going to have a fun rally this weekend in Woodland, ca.
> Â One of the discussions, is going to be on adjusting the v-belts on a GMC.>>>>
>
>
> I'm interested if there are any problems with belt slippage on the power steering pump when hard turning after installing the double pulley on the alternator?
>
>
>
> --
> Don
> Dallas, TX
> 1976 26' Glenbrook
> rebuilt by R Archer
> powered by J Bounds, Koba
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149110 is a reply to message #149103] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 13:01 |
George DV
Messages: 132
Registered: August 2004
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I had a problem on my 403/76 Glenbk with tossing/breaking Alternator belts.
Many times.
Spent a lot of time fussing with belts/sources/sizes [lots of Hecho en
Mexico crappy stuff], and finally put on a double pulley on alternator.
Solved the Alt. problem [and BTW I never ever went to the trouble of
matching the belts. ]
BUT I did [and do] have PS slipping which is manifested at low speed.
PS pump is levered out as far as it will go, which maximizes belt wrap.. OEM
Belt wrap angle is reduced with the double pulley on alt. so beware. [Just
like everything, there are unintended consequences.]
I did nothing to correct loss of full PS function other than recognize it is
there and particularly at low speed, it takes more armpower to turn. I am
used to it and know why it happens so I am happy.
For the Alt., I merely bought a pair, at random, of 57" belts from Az and
took pot luck. Tightened once after original install at around 500 miles.
No more eating belts, no more squeeking and no more belt dressing, nor undue
attention to the belts. But expect to have PS implications.
That's what I did.
George DV
_____________
/ ][ ] [ ] [ ] \
o O-----------O-----O-o
1976 GLENBROOK
TZE166V 100976
455 HEI 3.70
225 UniroyalsAlcoas
Beautiful Upstate NY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Colie" <matt7323tze@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION
>
>
> Don A wrote on Tue, 08 November 2011 11:09
>> I'm interested if there are any problems with belt slippage on the power
>> steering pump when hard turning after installing the double pulley on the
>> alternator?
>
> Don,
>
> I do get some very temporary slipping when I have been running in rain.
> It only happens in a hard swing at low speed and doesn't last long, but
> the alternator doesn't scream at me anymore.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will
> find
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149116 is a reply to message #149110] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 13:35 |
Don A
Messages: 895
Registered: October 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
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<<<<No more eating belts, no more squeeking and no more belt dressing, nor undue attention to the belts. But expect to have PS implications.>>>>
Thanks guys. That is what I expected. Much shorter contact on the PS pulley.
Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149121 is a reply to message #149116] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 14:16 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| Don A wrote on Tue, 08 November 2011 12:35 |
<<<<No more eating belts, no more squeeking and no more belt dressing, nor undue attention to the belts. But expect to have PS implications.>>>>
Thanks guys. That is what I expected. Much shorter contact on the PS pulley.
|
Like I told you in the PM, Don, I have NO belt issues and ALMOST no steering pump issues. There may be some slippage at low speeds, but it's hardly noticeable. What Gene says might be true. I only know that after I installed the double pulley, I had no more belt squeal. Then again, it might just have needed a new belt. Who knows?????
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149144 is a reply to message #149087] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 16:48 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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I have had the double pulley and double belts on my alternator for many years. I installed them long before Jim K. started to offer them as an option. I used a pair of "matched" AutoZone (Kelly Springfield) belts from the same lot number. I have never had any indication of belt slippage at any speed.
I do not carry spares. If one were to break I'll simply run on the other one. I the slight chance that a broken belt one should take out the other one, then I'll run on the AC belt only with a loss of power steering and alternator until I can get to a place to replace it. I have never had a broken belt on any vehicle I drive so I do not carry spares. If it bothers you, then carry a spare Kelly Springfield belt for less than $10.00.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149146 is a reply to message #149145] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 17:16 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Actually you already have 3 belts running on the water pump pulley. If you have a water pump pulley squeal, I suggest you have one of 3 problems.
1. Belts are not tight enough
2. Wrong width belts
3. Worn water pump pulley.
4. Wrong fan clutch inducing too much drag.
When I talked to an AC Delco engineer several years ago about fan clutches. He told me that the AC Delco 4644 clutch required two 1/2" belts to run it under full load. I told him we were running it with two 7/16" belts. He said that 7/16" belts would be a marginal installation and to expect some higher belt wear and slippage when the clutch kicks in.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149149 is a reply to message #149148] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 17:33 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
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Yup, but my double pulley on the alternator solved the problem and the belts need not be so tight.
JWID
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
The Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
----- Original Message -----
From: "gene Fisher" <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 3:30:04 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:52 PM, KRDietz <krdietz@gmail.com> wrote:
> Single pulley and belt on my 230. Just as GMC designed it.
>
yes
the right belt
straight alignment
tight as you can get it
and OEM is all you need.
now most of the squealing systems , have not done this
(but they can - we will cover at the rally)
gene
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149150 is a reply to message #149116] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 17:35 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
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| Don A wrote on Tue, 08 November 2011 13:35 |
<<<<No more eating belts, no more squeeking and no more belt dressing, nor undue attention to the belts. But expect to have PS implications.>>>>
Thanks guys. That is what I expected. Much shorter contact on the PS pulley.
|
BUT, you have twice the number of belts on the PS pump. the contact should be equal. PS pumps will tend to slip on any car. i think i get some slippage but it may not be the belt; it may be the pump itself. it's 35 years old!!! it would act up before i put on the double pulley.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149152 is a reply to message #149149] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 17:45 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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yes they do,
this is the way v-belts run.
and the belts have to stand above the pulleys,
and the alignment has to be straight
I will send the slides next week
gene
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
> Yup, but my double pulley on the alternator solved the problem and the
> belts need not be so tight.
>
> JWID
>
>
> Larry Davick
> Fremont, California
> The Mystery Machine
> '76 (ish) Palm Beach
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gene Fisher" <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 3:30:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION
>
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:52 PM, KRDietz <krdietz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Single pulley and belt on my 230. Just as GMC designed it.
> >
>
> yes
> the right belt
> straight alignment
> tight as you can get it
> and OEM is all you need.
>
> now most of the squealing systems , have not done this
> (but they can - we will cover at the rally)
>
> gene
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] V-BELT TENSION DISCUSSION [message #149170 is a reply to message #149168] |
Tue, 08 November 2011 21:38 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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> Okay, you don't have to shout at me ;-)
>
heck no, I don't own these problems ;>)
>
> I look forward to your presentation. Any chance I'll want to remove my
> double pulley?
>
heck no, just set the tension
gene
>
> Larry Davick
> Sent from my iPad
> (perhaps there is more than one Smart A$$ on the net...)
>
> On Nov 8, 2011, at 3:45 PM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > yes they do,
> > this is the way v-belts run.
> > and the belts have to stand above the pulleys,
> > and the alignment has to be straight
> >
> > I will send the slides next week
> > gene
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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