Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
| [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147872] |
Wed, 26 October 2011 19:40  |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
I was perusing a list of old GMCnet contributions when I ran across this:
***********************************************************************************
How do I get 220 volts out of my Onan?
I (actually my chief engineer) split the two coils to provide separate 110 to two separate circuits. Two 110 hots and a ground give
you 220 if needed. In the installation manual for BGE, NHE Gensets Manual #965-0628 of 2-92 page 7-4 the schematic #611-1206 for
60HZ generator.
He moved:
T4 From L0 to L2
T3 From L1 to L0
CB2 From L1 to L2
This is a totally unauthorized switch and what you do is up to you.
***********************************************************************************
Comments appreciated.
Regards,
Rob M.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147883 is a reply to message #147872] |
Wed, 26 October 2011 20:38  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
The BGE and NHE series Onan's are later designs, of completely different
construction, than then NH series in the GMC's. The NH cannot be converted
to 220 vac without rewinding -- and probably other changes too extensive to
be practical.
Here's an Onan history w/charts of different series:
http://www.perr.com/onan.html
I think Mark Hogenboom may have gotten his NH modified in Holland.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I was perusing a list of old GMCnet contributions when I ran across this:
>
>
> ***********************************************************************************
>
> How do I get 220 volts out of my Onan?
>
> I (actually my chief engineer) split the two coils to provide separate 110
> to two separate circuits. Two 110 hots and a ground give
> you 220 if needed. In the installation manual for BGE, NHE Gensets Manual
> #965-0628 of 2-92 page 7-4 the schematic #611-1206 for
> 60HZ generator.
>
> He moved:
> T4 From L0 to L2
> T3 From L1 to L0
> CB2 From L1 to L2
>
> This is a totally unauthorized switch and what you do is up to you.
>
>
> ***********************************************************************************
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147886 is a reply to message #147872] |
Wed, 26 October 2011 20:46 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 26 October 2011 20:40 |
G'day,
I was perusing a list of old GMCnet contributions when I ran across this:
***********************************************************************************
How do I get 220 volts out of my Onan?
I (actually my chief engineer) split the two coils to provide separate 110 to two separate circuits. Two 110 hots and a ground give you 220 if needed. In the installation manual for BGE, NHE Gensets Manual #965-0628 of 2-92 page 7-4 the schematic #611-1206 for 60HZ generator.
He moved:
T4 From L0 to L2
T3 From L1 to L0
CB2 From L1 to L2
This is a totally unauthorized switch and what you do is up to you.
***********************************************************************************
Comments appreciated.
Regards,
Rob M.
|
Rob,
The Onan models NH and NHE have some significant differences. One of those differences is the electric end of the machine. The 6Kw NH Power Drawer is what is called a rotating armature - that part that makes the actual power is spinning. The power comes out on two slip rings. The NHE version is a stationary armature and that part is not spinning, so there are other things that can be done, like splitting the power winding. As this is actually two separate winding, it is not all that tough to separate them. There is a problem with this modification. The field strength (output voltage) control circuit is designed to look at a single 120VAC output and adjust accordingly. If you make this change, the machine will have no idea what is happening with the unmonitored half of the output.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147887 is a reply to message #147883] |
Wed, 26 October 2011 20:56 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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|
Rob,
I just read the chart more carefully: It describes the NH as a 120/240 vac
generator. So they must have made one different than ours (or the chart's
in errror). If you check the schematic in the major maintenance manual
which I have, you'll see that there's only one winding, so it cannot be
split as described (the connection terminology is even different than
described).
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Rob,
>
> The BGE and NHE series Onan's are later designs, of completely different
> construction, than then NH series in the GMC's. The NH cannot be converted
> to 220 vac without rewinding -- and probably other changes too extensive to
> be practical.
>
> Here's an Onan history w/charts of different series:
> http://www.perr.com/onan.html
>
> I think Mark Hogenboom may have gotten his NH modified in Holland.
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
>
>> G'day,
>>
>> I was perusing a list of old GMCnet contributions when I ran across this:
>>
>>
>> ***********************************************************************************
>>
>> How do I get 220 volts out of my Onan?
>>
>> I (actually my chief engineer) split the two coils to provide separate 110
>> to two separate circuits. Two 110 hots and a ground give
>> you 220 if needed. In the installation manual for BGE, NHE Gensets Manual
>> #965-0628 of 2-92 page 7-4 the schematic #611-1206 for
>> 60HZ generator.
>>
>> He moved:
>> T4 From L0 to L2
>> T3 From L1 to L0
>> CB2 From L1 to L2
>>
>> This is a totally unauthorized switch and what you do is up to you.
>>
>>
>> ***********************************************************************************
>>
>> Comments appreciated.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>>
>>
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147901 is a reply to message #147872] |
Wed, 26 October 2011 23:18 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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So if one did have a 6kw onan and wanted to run a 240v device such as a ----- welder for example, what is the best way to accomplish such a task w/o replacing the generator (got a lot of time into the barbarian and actually kinda love it). ????
Sully
77 royale (barbarian works bitchin)
------Original Message------
From: gene Fisher
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
ReplyTo: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
Sent: Oct 26, 2011 9:05 PM
There is a problem with this modification. The field strength (output
voltage) control circuit is designed to look at a single 120VAC output and
adjust accordingly. If you make this change, the machine will have no idea
what is happening with the unmonitored half of the output.
yes, however
it is safe to assume what is going on with one side is similar to the
other, so whats a little ripple between friends'
gene
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will
> find
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147906 is a reply to message #147897] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 02:17 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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A.
Here's a link to the Wikipedia entry regarding Mains Electricity by Country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country
Country: Australia
Voltage; 230
Frequency: 50
Comments: As of 2000, the mains supply voltage specified in AS 60038 is 230 V with a tolerance of +10% -6%.[4] This was done for
voltage harmonisation - however 240 V is within tolerance and is commonly found. Mains voltage is still popularly referred to as
being "two-forty volts". Bathrooms in hotels will often have a type I, C and A socket marked "for shavers only" as pictured on the
right.
I've measured the voltage down at my factory and it is over 230VAC. Three doors down from me is a company that makes transformers, I
had him build me a massive step down transformer so I could wire my entire factory with US plugs @ 120vac. Stuff runs slower but the
tools all work fine. I have been told that it will burn tools out eventually but I figger I'll probably burn out first! ;-)
Part of the registration process here in Australia for a GMC the electrical system must be inspected and certified to meet code.
Running the Onan at 120VAC 60HZ and stepping it up to 220VAC 60HZ might not be permitted. Having said that rewiring the generator to
put out 220VAC 60HZ might not be permitted either. I'll have to do more homework.
I wish I could remember the gentleman's name that worked for Onan so I could ask him some more questions!
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: A.
I lived overseas multiple times for multiple years. All were 220V, 50Hz power systems. I used step down transformers up to 2kW to
run my US stuff, but one could probably find 4kW and even 6kW step up units for less AUD than it would cost to convert the OEM
generator.
Not sure how advisable it would be to slow it down to 1500 RPMs to get 50 Hz unless one could figure out what the spark advance
would need to be set for. And I suspect there is a good chance the engine would "lug" at that speed with a much smaller load than
6kW.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147913 is a reply to message #147901] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 06:59 |
|
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| sgltrac wrote on Thu, 27 October 2011 00:18 |
So if one did have a 6kw onan and wanted to run a 240v device such as a ----- welder for example, what is the best way to accomplish such a task w/o replacing the generator (got a lot of time into the barbarian and actually kinda love it). ????
Sully
77 royale (barbarian works bitchin)
|
Sully,
I too have an Onan that I would not give up willingly.
But,
You have only one workable choice - buy a big honkin' transformer. You might be able to find a machine transformer use at a reasonable price, but with the current price of scrap copper that might be tough. The other issue is that those guys are "made out of heavy" (as an associate used to say). I have a 1.5KVA isolation transformer that probably weights 30#.
So, I hate to say it, but as far as running the welder, you are out of luck.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147915 is a reply to message #147887] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 07:48 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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|
Rob,
Now that I've slept on it, I have another idea; one that reconciles Marc's
experience with the physical design of the Onan: It MAY be possible to
replace the voltage regulator to allow more field current and consequently
higher output voltage from the rotating armature. That would yield simple
single phase power, as used in Australia and Europe. It would NOT provide
the split phase 120x2 vac power we use in the US. That pattern would
require two separate sets of windings; and 3 slip rings, on the armature
rather than the two on the GMC Onans.
The replacement regulator might be electronic, or the existing compounding
reactor might be rebuilt to have different characteristics, including
resonance at 50 Hz vs 60 Hz. In either case, the engine would need to be
run at 5/6 of 1800, or 1500 rpm, as you mentioned.
But it's still a WAG on my part as to whether it's practical. :-)
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Rob,
>
> I just read the chart more carefully: It describes the NH as a 120/240 vac
> generator. So they must have made one different than ours (or the chart's
> in errror). If you check the schematic in the major maintenance manual
> which I have, you'll see that there's only one winding, so it cannot be
> split as described (the connection terminology is even different than
> described).
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>
>> Rob,
>>
>> The BGE and NHE series Onan's are later designs, of completely different
>> construction, than then NH series in the GMC's. The NH cannot be converted
>> to 220 vac without rewinding -- and probably other changes too extensive to
>> be practical.
>>
>> Here's an Onan history w/charts of different series:
>> http://www.perr.com/onan.html
>>
>> I think Mark Hogenboom may have gotten his NH modified in Holland.
>>
>> Ken H.
>> Americus, GA
>> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
>> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
>>
>>> G'day,
>>>
>>> I was perusing a list of old GMCnet contributions when I ran across this:
>>>
>>>
>>> ***********************************************************************************
>>>
>>> How do I get 220 volts out of my Onan?
>>>
>>> I (actually my chief engineer) split the two coils to provide separate
>>> 110 to two separate circuits. Two 110 hots and a ground give
>>> you 220 if needed. In the installation manual for BGE, NHE Gensets Manual
>>> #965-0628 of 2-92 page 7-4 the schematic #611-1206 for
>>> 60HZ generator.
>>>
>>> He moved:
>>> T4 From L0 to L2
>>> T3 From L1 to L0
>>> CB2 From L1 to L2
>>>
>>> This is a totally unauthorized switch and what you do is up to you.
>>>
>>>
>>> ***********************************************************************************
>>>
>>> Comments appreciated.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Rob M.
>>>
>>>
>
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147919 is a reply to message #147901] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 09:01 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Sully,
I've been using a Lincoln IDEALARC SP-100 for over 30 years. It is an
original Lincoln MIG, bench top wire feed welder. Runs on 110Volt and can
weld from .024 to .12 steel on a 15 amp branch circuit. I have welded .125
steel channel and slightly heavier on a 20 amp circuit with no problems. I
can't see much demand for welding anything heavier then that. I've never
tried it off the Onan, but, I would assume it would be fine. The Lincoln
manual suggest using a 110 volt, 25 amp circuit when approaching maximum
output. That's on a 30+ year old welder - I'm sure what's out there today
blows this thing away. At 1/2 the price...
Good Luck,
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:18 PM, <sgltrac@gmail.com> wrote:
> So if one did have a 6kw onan and wanted to run a 240v device such as a
> ----- welder for example, what is the best way to accomplish such a task w/o
> replacing the generator (got a lot of time into the barbarian and actually
> kinda love it). ????
>
> Sully
> 77 royale (barbarian works bitchin)
> ------Original Message------
> From: gene Fisher
> Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> ReplyTo: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
> Sent: Oct 26, 2011 9:05 PM
>
> There is a problem with this modification. The field strength (output
> voltage) control circuit is designed to look at a single 120VAC output and
> adjust accordingly. If you make this change, the machine will have no idea
> what is happening with the unmonitored half of the output.
>
> yes, however
> it is safe to assume what is going on with one side is similar to the
> other, so whats a little ripple between friends'
>
> gene
>
>
>
> > Matt
> > --
> > Matt & Mary Colie
> > '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you
> will
> > find
> > SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147920 is a reply to message #147906] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 09:09 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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It was generally considered advisable when running MOST
US/Canada stuff on stepped-down 50 Hz power that you
should also run on a bit lower voltage, say 110. It's
NOT a problem if the device is RATED for 50/60 Hz power.
Some 60 Hz devices can overheat if run for extended
periods of time on 50 Hz due to the use of smaller wire
in motors and transformers made for 60 Hz only stuff.
Stuff made for 50 Hz has to have larger transformers.
400 Hz is often used in aircraft because transformers
can be made so much smaller/lighter at the higher line
frequency.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> From: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:17:16 +1100
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
>
> A.
>
> Here's a link to the Wikipedia entry regarding Mains Electricity by Country:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country
>
> Country: Australia
>
> Voltage; 230
>
> Frequency: 50
>
> Comments: As of 2000, the mains supply voltage specified in AS 60038 is 230 V with a tolerance of +10% -6%.[4] This was done for
> voltage harmonisation - however 240 V is within tolerance and is commonly found. Mains voltage is still popularly referred to as
> being "two-forty volts". Bathrooms in hotels will often have a type I, C and A socket marked "for shavers only" as pictured on the
> right.
>
> I've measured the voltage down at my factory and it is over 230VAC. Three doors down from me is a company that makes transformers, I
> had him build me a massive step down transformer so I could wire my entire factory with US plugs @ 120vac. Stuff runs slower but the
> tools all work fine. I have been told that it will burn tools out eventually but I figger I'll probably burn out first! ;-)
>
> Part of the registration process here in Australia for a GMC the electrical system must be inspected and certified to meet code.
> Running the Onan at 120VAC 60HZ and stepping it up to 220VAC 60HZ might not be permitted. Having said that rewiring the generator to
> put out 220VAC 60HZ might not be permitted either. I'll have to do more homework.
>
> I wish I could remember the gentleman's name that worked for Onan so I could ask him some more questions!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A.
>
> I lived overseas multiple times for multiple years. All were 220V, 50Hz power systems. I used step down transformers up to 2kW to
> run my US stuff, but one could probably find 4kW and even 6kW step up units for less AUD than it would cost to convert the OEM
> generator.
> Not sure how advisable it would be to slow it down to 1500 RPMs to get 50 Hz unless one could figure out what the spark advance
> would need to be set for. And I suspect there is a good chance the engine would "lug" at that speed with a much smaller load than
> 6kW.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147923 is a reply to message #147919] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 09:33 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
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Want to be able to run a tig machine for aluminum repairs while dirtbike racing
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Eckert <gmcrv1@gmail.com>
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:01:26
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Reply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
Sully,
I've been using a Lincoln IDEALARC SP-100 for over 30 years. It is an
original Lincoln MIG, bench top wire feed welder. Runs on 110Volt and can
weld from .024 to .12 steel on a 15 amp branch circuit. I have welded .125
steel channel and slightly heavier on a 20 amp circuit with no problems. I
can't see much demand for welding anything heavier then that. I've never
tried it off the Onan, but, I would assume it would be fine. The Lincoln
manual suggest using a 110 volt, 25 amp circuit when approaching maximum
output. That's on a 30+ year old welder - I'm sure what's out there today
blows this thing away. At 1/2 the price...
Good Luck,
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:18 PM, <sgltrac@gmail.com> wrote:
> So if one did have a 6kw onan and wanted to run a 240v device such as a
> ----- welder for example, what is the best way to accomplish such a task w/o
> replacing the generator (got a lot of time into the barbarian and actually
> kinda love it). ????
>
> Sully
> 77 royale (barbarian works bitchin)
> ------Original Message------
> From: gene Fisher
> Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> ReplyTo: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
> Sent: Oct 26, 2011 9:05 PM
>
> There is a problem with this modification. The field strength (output
> voltage) control circuit is designed to look at a single 120VAC output and
> adjust accordingly. If you make this change, the machine will have no idea
> what is happening with the unmonitored half of the output.
>
> yes, however
> it is safe to assume what is going on with one side is similar to the
> other, so whats a little ripple between friends'
>
> gene
>
>
>
> > Matt
> > --
> > Matt & Mary Colie
> > '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you
> will
> > find
> > SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
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>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147932 is a reply to message #147915] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 11:05 |
Marc Hogenboom[2]
Messages: 70
Registered: March 2011
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
Ken and Rob,
That is what was done to my Onan.
The connection of the field wiring was changed and a custom electronic
regulator was built.
The guys that did this moved on to new and exiting projects and I cant get
them to write down exactly what they did.
The engine speed was adjusted to get close to 50 Hz, and this seems be be no
problem.
Marc Hogenboom
'73 Painted Desert Diesel
Madrid NM
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: Ken Henderson
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:48 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
Rob,
Now that I've slept on it, I have another idea; one that reconciles Marc's
experience with the physical design of the Onan: It MAY be possible to
replace the voltage regulator to allow more field current and consequently
higher output voltage from the rotating armature. That would yield simple
single phase power, as used in Australia and Europe. It would NOT provide
the split phase 120x2 vac power we use in the US. That pattern would
require two separate sets of windings; and 3 slip rings, on the armature
rather than the two on the GMC Onans.
The replacement regulator might be electronic, or the existing compounding
reactor might be rebuilt to have different characteristics, including
resonance at 50 Hz vs 60 Hz. In either case, the engine would need to be
run at 5/6 of 1800, or 1500 rpm, as you mentioned.
But it's still a WAG on my part as to whether it's practical. :-)
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ken Henderson
<hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Rob,
>
> I just read the chart more carefully: It describes the NH as a 120/240
> vac
> generator. So they must have made one different than ours (or the chart's
> in errror). If you check the schematic in the major maintenance manual
> which I have, you'll see that there's only one winding, so it cannot be
> split as described (the connection terminology is even different than
> described).
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Ken Henderson
> <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>
>> Rob,
>>
>> The BGE and NHE series Onan's are later designs, of completely different
>> construction, than then NH series in the GMC's. The NH cannot be
>> converted
>> to 220 vac without rewinding -- and probably other changes too extensive
>> to
>> be practical.
>>
>> Here's an Onan history w/charts of different series:
>> http://www.perr.com/onan.html
>>
>> I think Mark Hogenboom may have gotten his NH modified in Holland.
>>
>> Ken H.
>> Americus, GA
>> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
>> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Rob Mueller
>> <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
>>
>>> G'day,
>>>
>>> I was perusing a list of old GMCnet contributions when I ran across
>>> this:
>>>
>>>
>>> ***********************************************************************************
>>>
>>> How do I get 220 volts out of my Onan?
>>>
>>> I (actually my chief engineer) split the two coils to provide separate
>>> 110 to two separate circuits. Two 110 hots and a ground give
>>> you 220 if needed. In the installation manual for BGE, NHE Gensets
>>> Manual
>>> #965-0628 of 2-92 page 7-4 the schematic #611-1206 for
>>> 60HZ generator.
>>>
>>> He moved:
>>> T4 From L0 to L2
>>> T3 From L1 to L0
>>> CB2 From L1 to L2
>>>
>>> This is a totally unauthorized switch and what you do is up to you.
>>>
>>>
>>> ***********************************************************************************
>>>
>>> Comments appreciated.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Rob M.
>>>
>>>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147933 is a reply to message #147932] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 11:10 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Wow. Marc lives :)
Gene
FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
On Oct 27, 2011, at 9:05 AM, "Marc Hogenboom" <marc.hogenboom@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ken and Rob,
> That is what was done to my Onan.
> The connection of the field wiring was changed and a custom electronic
> regulator was built.
> The guys that did this moved on to new and exiting projects and I cant get
> them to write down exactly what they did.
> The engine speed was adjusted to get close to 50 Hz, and this seems be be no
> problem.
>
> Marc Hogenboom
> '73 Painted Desert Diesel
> Madrid NM
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> From: Ken Henderson
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:48 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
>
> Rob,
>
> Now that I've slept on it, I have another idea; one that reconciles Marc's
> experience with the physical design of the Onan: It MAY be possible to
> replace the voltage regulator to allow more field current and consequently
> higher output voltage from the rotating armature. That would yield simple
> single phase power, as used in Australia and Europe. It would NOT provide
> the split phase 120x2 vac power we use in the US. That pattern would
> require two separate sets of windings; and 3 slip rings, on the armature
> rather than the two on the GMC Onans.
>
> The replacement regulator might be electronic, or the existing compounding
> reactor might be rebuilt to have different characteristics, including
> resonance at 50 Hz vs 60 Hz. In either case, the engine would need to be
> run at 5/6 of 1800, or 1500 rpm, as you mentioned.
>
> But it's still a WAG on my part as to whether it's practical. :-)
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ken Henderson
> <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>
>> Rob,
>>
>> I just read the chart more carefully: It describes the NH as a 120/240
>> vac
>> generator. So they must have made one different than ours (or the chart's
>> in errror). If you check the schematic in the major maintenance manual
>> which I have, you'll see that there's only one winding, so it cannot be
>> split as described (the connection terminology is even different than
>> described).
>>
>> Ken H.
>> Americus, GA
>> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
>> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Ken Henderson
>> <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Rob,
>>>
>>> The BGE and NHE series Onan's are later designs, of completely different
>>> construction, than then NH series in the GMC's. The NH cannot be
>>> converted
>>> to 220 vac without rewinding -- and probably other changes too extensive
>>> to
>>> be practical.
>>>
>>> Here's an Onan history w/charts of different series:
>>> http://www.perr.com/onan.html
>>>
>>> I think Mark Hogenboom may have gotten his NH modified in Holland.
>>>
>>> Ken H.
>>> Americus, GA
>>> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
>>> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Rob Mueller
>>> <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
>>>
>>>> G'day,
>>>>
>>>> I was perusing a list of old GMCnet contributions when I ran across
>>>> this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ***********************************************************************************
>>>>
>>>> How do I get 220 volts out of my Onan?
>>>>
>>>> I (actually my chief engineer) split the two coils to provide separate
>>>> 110 to two separate circuits. Two 110 hots and a ground give
>>>> you 220 if needed. In the installation manual for BGE, NHE Gensets
>>>> Manual
>>>> #965-0628 of 2-92 page 7-4 the schematic #611-1206 for
>>>> 60HZ generator.
>>>>
>>>> He moved:
>>>> T4 From L0 to L2
>>>> T3 From L1 to L0
>>>> CB2 From L1 to L2
>>>>
>>>> This is a totally unauthorized switch and what you do is up to you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ***********************************************************************************
>>>>
>>>> Comments appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Rob M.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147934 is a reply to message #147933] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 11:11 |
Marc Hogenboom[2]
Messages: 70
Registered: March 2011
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
Yes Gene, I do!
Busy building a workshop and living at the same time.
A lot of work for a retired guy!
Marc Hogenboom
'73 Painted Desert Diesel
Madrid NM
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: mr.erfisher@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:10 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
Wow. Marc lives :)
Gene
FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
On Oct 27, 2011, at 9:05 AM, "Marc Hogenboom" <marc.hogenboom@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Ken and Rob,
> That is what was done to my Onan.
> The connection of the field wiring was changed and a custom electronic
> regulator was built.
> The guys that did this moved on to new and exiting projects and I cant get
> them to write down exactly what they did.
> The engine speed was adjusted to get close to 50 Hz, and this seems be be
> no
> problem.
>
> Marc Hogenboom
> '73 Painted Desert Diesel
> Madrid NM
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> From: Ken Henderson
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:48 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC
>
> Rob,
>
> Now that I've slept on it, I have another idea; one that reconciles Marc's
> experience with the physical design of the Onan: It MAY be possible to
> replace the voltage regulator to allow more field current and consequently
> higher output voltage from the rotating armature. That would yield simple
> single phase power, as used in Australia and Europe. It would NOT provide
> the split phase 120x2 vac power we use in the US. That pattern would
> require two separate sets of windings; and 3 slip rings, on the armature
> rather than the two on the GMC Onans.
>
> The replacement regulator might be electronic, or the existing compounding
> reactor might be rebuilt to have different characteristics, including
> resonance at 50 Hz vs 60 Hz. In either case, the engine would need to be
> run at 5/6 of 1800, or 1500 rpm, as you mentioned.
>
> But it's still a WAG on my part as to whether it's practical. :-)
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Ken Henderson
> <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>
>> Rob,
>>
>> I just read the chart more carefully: It describes the NH as a 120/240
>> vac
>> generator. So they must have made one different than ours (or the
>> chart's
>> in errror). If you check the schematic in the major maintenance manual
>> which I have, you'll see that there's only one winding, so it cannot be
>> split as described (the connection terminology is even different than
>> described).
>>
>> Ken H.
>> Americus, GA
>> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
>> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Ken Henderson
>> <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Rob,
>>>
>>> The BGE and NHE series Onan's are later designs, of completely different
>>> construction, than then NH series in the GMC's. The NH cannot be
>>> converted
>>> to 220 vac without rewinding -- and probably other changes too extensive
>>> to
>>> be practical.
>>>
>>> Here's an Onan history w/charts of different series:
>>> http://www.perr.com/onan.html
>>>
>>> I think Mark Hogenboom may have gotten his NH modified in Holland.
>>>
>>> Ken H.
>>> Americus, GA
>>> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
>>> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Rob Mueller
>>> <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
>>>
>>>> G'day,
>>>>
>>>> I was perusing a list of old GMCnet contributions when I ran across
>>>> this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ***********************************************************************************
>>>>
>>>> How do I get 220 volts out of my Onan?
>>>>
>>>> I (actually my chief engineer) split the two coils to provide separate
>>>> 110 to two separate circuits. Two 110 hots and a ground give
>>>> you 220 if needed. In the installation manual for BGE, NHE Gensets
>>>> Manual
>>>> #965-0628 of 2-92 page 7-4 the schematic #611-1206 for
>>>> 60HZ generator.
>>>>
>>>> He moved:
>>>> T4 From L0 to L2
>>>> T3 From L1 to L0
>>>> CB2 From L1 to L2
>>>>
>>>> This is a totally unauthorized switch and what you do is up to you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ***********************************************************************************
>>>>
>>>> Comments appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Rob M.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Changing Onan Output to 220VAC [message #147938 is a reply to message #147901] |
Thu, 27 October 2011 11:54 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| sgltrac wrote on Wed, 26 October 2011 23:18 |
So if one did have a 6kw Onan and wanted to run a 240v device such as a ----- welder for example, what is the best way to accomplish such a task w/o replacing the generator (got a lot of time into the barbarian and actually kinda love it). ????
Sully
77 Royale (barbarian works bitchin)
|
You can hook up a transformer as a step up autotransformer. You need a transformer with a 120/240 winding and a rating of at least 3KVA. As someone has said, such a device is "made out of heavy". I have a 5KVA transformer that tips in at close to 100#.
As was suggested it is probably more feasible to find an appropriate 120V welder. Some of the new inverter styles are amazing.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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