Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » timing chain questions
| timing chain questions [message #142119] |
Fri, 02 September 2011 14:48  |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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since i have no record of this being replaced then i assume i need to.
i am not sure if i need to tackle, or just pay someone to do. i have replaced rings in v/w ,dropping a 914 engine is a 45 minute job. mainly because i have done it many times. but i have never touched motormounts on a v8. i also do not own gear pulling tools. i know i dont need a big oh crap thing happen, nor do i need a never ending project. so questons are,
first one for those who have done only once, do you wish you had paid someone else to do. i know i have to buy the parts no matter what. i dont have a helper.
and to the person who has done a dozen times, does having a rookie to help really help, or mainly give you someone in the way?
overnighter planned end of month, approx 125 miles away, i am not sure if i will tackle before then or after then.
all input appreciated,
coach has approx 118700 miles , good history up til approx 8 years ago. on the blueridge parkway 2 weeks back it drove great.
thanks bgk
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: [GMCnet] timing chain questions [message #142132 is a reply to message #142119] |
Fri, 02 September 2011 15:53  |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Brian, It is a lay under the MH and work with arms extended upward. The job
is made easier if the radiator is not in place, but can be accomplished
without removing it. The belts, fan clutch and fan, fan shroud, water pump,
compensating pulley/damper uses a puller. Then, either support the oil pan
from below, being careful not to dent it, or use an engine lifting device
from above. Only raise it enough to take the load off the front motor mount,
then remove the motor mount support plate that is bolted onto the timing
cover and the front of the engine block. Position the engine at top dead
center on the number one cylinder, and the timing marks should be aligned.
Remove the bolts that hold the cam sprocket and fuel pump cam onto the cam.
Without moving either the cam or the crank, remove the entire timing chain
and both sprockets as a unit. Scrape all the gasket surfaces and clean them
with chem tool or brake kleen. Replace the front crankshaft seal, and glue
the gasket to the cover. Put a blob of RTV sealant at each corner of the
block where the block, oil pan and timing cover congregate. The new timing
set should be installed so the hobbing pin on the cam mates with the new cam
sprocket and the timing marks align. Some of the crank gears have three
keyways. For your application, use the middle one. One keyway will advance
the gear, one is "straight up", and one will retard the gear. Loctite the
cam bolts, don't forget the fuel pump cam. Reverse the proceedure to install
the rest. One final word of caution, inspect the front motor mount
carefully. Most of the ones that I encounter are broken. Should be available
from one of the Jims. Any further questions, feel free to email me.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:48 PM, brian <chasingsummer@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> since i have no record of this being replaced then i assume i need to.
> i am not sure if i need to tackle, or just pay someone to do. i have
> replaced rings in v/w ,dropping a 914 engine is a 45 minute job. mainly
> because i have done it many times. but i have never touched motormounts on
> a v8. i also do not own gear pulling tools. i know i dont need a big oh crap
> thing happen, nor do i need a never ending project. so questons are,
> first one for those who have done only once, do you wish you had paid
> someone else to do. i know i have to buy the parts no matter what. i dont
> have a helper.
> and to the person who has done a dozen times, does having a rookie to help
> really help, or mainly give you someone in the way?
> overnighter planned end of month, approx 125 miles away, i am not sure if i
> will tackle before then or after then.
> all input appreciated,
> coach has approx 118700 miles , good history up til approx 8 years ago. on
> the blueridge parkway 2 weeks back it drove great.
> thanks bgk
> --
> brian
> asheboro, nc
> 75 eleganza 2 74 build
> 118k miles and counting,
> DOG HOUSE
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] timing chain questions [message #142133 is a reply to message #142119] |
Fri, 02 September 2011 16:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Brian,
I helped Jason R&R the timing chain and gears when I was down at the COOP last year. It is a fairly big job. Having someone to help
(me) made the job easier.
We had removed the transmission and final drive so we could remove the oil pan because the gasket was leaking and to replace the
final drive.
While it was off I stuck my fingers up on both sides of the timing chain and found it was REALLY loose. The engine had been rebuilt
about 70 miles previously. The rebuilder did not use a Cloyes Double Roller Chain.
I went through the manual and here are all the pages and paragraphs it references to do the job. Each step references the one below
it.
I stopped listing the steps; however, the MM notes that the Oil Pan must be removed to remove the front cover. I am not sure if that
is necessary as noted above we already had it off. I'm sure someone else can answer that question.
Maintenance Manual: X-7525
Page: 6A-52 & 6A-53: Timing Chain and Gears
Page: 6A-50 & 51: Front Cover
Page: 6A-48 Crankshaft Pulley
Page: 6A-49 Harmonic Balancer
Page: 6A-42 Oil Pan - This requires removing the transmission and final drive and raising the engine a bit so the pan will clear the
main bearings.
Reviewing these steps will give you a good indication if it's a job you want to tackle.
If you don't have a copy of the manual you can download it here:
http://www.bdub.net/factory-manuals.html
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: brian
since i have no record of this being replaced then i assume i need to.
i am not sure if i need to tackle, or just pay someone to do. i have replaced rings in v/w ,dropping a 914 engine is a 45 minute
job. mainly because i have done it many times. but i have never touched motormounts on a v8. i also do not own gear pulling tools.
i know i dont need a big oh crap thing happen, nor do i need a never ending project. so questons are,
first one for those who have done only once, do you wish you had paid someone else to do. i know i have to buy the parts no matter
what. i dont have a helper.
and to the person who has done a dozen times, does having a rookie to help really help, or mainly give you someone in the way?
overnighter planned end of month, approx 125 miles away, i am not sure if i will tackle before then or after then.
all input appreciated,
coach has approx 118700 miles , good history up til approx 8 years ago. on the blueridge parkway 2 weeks back it drove great.
thanks bgk
--
brian
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: timing chain questions [message #142443 is a reply to message #142119] |
Mon, 05 September 2011 10:07 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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i have the manual, but i am stil not sure if job is for me or a mechanic, so feedback from those who did for first time is still appreciated,
barry owens is approx 45 minutes away so i am leaning towards seeing if he would like to do. my thinking is, i am not 100 percent on how i would support motor, if this was one of those things that needed to be done every year or 2 i would think tool investment and etc would be worth it. but since this should be a do once and forget about then i am leaning towards letting those that do all the time do it.
i did see on ebay that proper chain set can be had for less than $80 with shipping.
i also understand that pefect time to replace water pump also since it will be off.
any recommendations on water pump, or just any napa one will do?
thanks bgk
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: timing chain questions [message #142452 is a reply to message #142443] |
Mon, 05 September 2011 12:05 |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Quote: |
......i did see on ebay that proper chain set can be had for less than $80 with shipping......
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You got something to attach the chain fall to?
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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| Re: timing chain questions [message #142458 is a reply to message #142443] |
Mon, 05 September 2011 12:33 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| chasingsummer wrote on Mon, 05 September 2011 11:07 |
i have the manual, but i am stil not sure if job is for me or a mechanic, so feedback from those who did for first time is still appreciated,
barry owens is approx 45 minutes away so i am leaning towards seeing if he would like to do. my thinking is, i am not 100 percent on how i would support motor, if this was one of those things that needed to be done every year or 2 i would think tool investment and etc would be worth it. but since this should be a do once and forget about then i am leaning towards letting those that do all the time do it.
i did see on ebay that proper chain set can be had for less than $80 with shipping.
i also understand that pefect time to replace water pump also since it will be off.
any recommendations on water pump, or just any napa one will do?
thanks bgk
|
Brain,
When I took my transmission down last year, I used a saw horse and ratchet cargo straps to both let the transmission down, lift it back into place and support the engine. They were the 1" HF kind(9.99 on sale - nobody pays the 16.99 price). I do need to buy a new set now. I did try to clean them.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] timing chain questions [message #142479 is a reply to message #142458] |
Mon, 05 September 2011 16:25 |
Chuck Garton
Messages: 54
Registered: June 2006
Karma: 0
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Member |
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My engine died last summer. It had 133,000 miles on it. I inspected
the double roller timing chain and it was still tight.
Chuck Garton
77 Kingsley 455
Ridgecrest, CA
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> chasingsummer wrote on Mon, 05 September 2011 11:07
>> i have the manual, but i am stil not sure if job is for me or a mechanic, so feedback from those who did for first time is still appreciated,
>> barry owens is approx 45 minutes away so i am leaning towards seeing if he would like to do. my thinking is, i am not 100 percent on how i would support motor, if this was one of those things that needed to be done every year or 2 i would think tool investment and etc would be worth it. but since this should be a do once and forget about then i am leaning towards letting those that do all the time do it.
>> i did see on ebay that proper chain set can be had for less than $80 with shipping.
>> i also understand that pefect time to replace water pump also since it will be off.
>> any recommendations on water pump, or just any napa one will do?
>> thanks bgk
>
> Brain,
> When I took my transmission down last year, I used a saw horse and ratchet cargo straps to both let the transmission down, lift it back into place and support the engine. They were the 1" HF kind(9.99 on sale - nobody pays the 16.99 price). I do need to buy a new set now. I did try to clean them.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will find
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: timing chain questions [message #142484 is a reply to message #142458] |
Mon, 05 September 2011 17:00 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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using saw horse and strap, do i just run strap under engine and strap to itself? or what would i strap to? thanks
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
|
|
|
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| Re: timing chain questions [message #142492 is a reply to message #142484] |
Mon, 05 September 2011 17:29 |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Quote: |
using saw horse and strap, do i just run strap under engine and strap to itself? or what would i strap to?
|
Is this a joke? I saw some videos of these on J@(?@$$. Definitely not OSHA approved or UL listed.
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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| Re: timing chain questions [message #142497 is a reply to message #142484] |
Mon, 05 September 2011 17:42 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| chasingsummer wrote on Mon, 05 September 2011 18:00 |
using saw horse and strap, do i just run strap under engine and strap to itself? or what would i strap to? thanks
|
It almost doesn't matter.
The way that worked best for the engine was with the sawhorse set across the opening and the strap hooked to itself on both sides - a big U under the engine. I suspect that will be best for you at the front of the engine.
One good thing, those HF orange straps slide very easily. But, watch out for the orange straps, they slide very easily. (No, I'm just not sure if that is good or bad. but they will slide, so make sure that they can't escape and dump the load.
Unfortunately, that plan did not work when trying to maneuver the transmission.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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