Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer?
| [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer? [message #141346] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 12:54  |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Hello all,
I have owned a couple of 26 footers in the past. I am now looking for a 23'
GMC.
I live in Kalifornia (Sacramento area) where vehicles 1976 and newer must
pass a smog check every two years. So, if I get a 1973 or 74 GMC I can
eliminate that requirement and do what I please with it. However, I seem to
remember that there were some changes to the GMCs starting with the 1975
models, but I can't find a source for that information. If I get a 1976 or
newer model, then I can benefit from subtle improvements made to the latter
year coaches, but I'll be stuck doing a smog check every two years.
Can someone point me in the direction of where I can learn a little more
about the differences between the early and later models?
Thank you,
Guy
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer? [message #141373 is a reply to message #141362] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 15:30  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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We supply and install the Vintage Air unit.
The unit is $360, but the labor to plum and install and charge the
system goes for aroung $800.
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:17 PM, A. <markbb1@netzero.com> wrote:
>
>
> SWA Guy wrote on Sun, 28 August 2011 12:54
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I have owned a couple of 26 footers in the past. I am now looking for a 23' GMC.
>>
>> I live in Kalifornia (Sacramento area) where vehicles 1976 and newer must pass a smog check every two years. So, if I get a 1973 or 74 GMC I can eliminate that requirement and do what I please with it. However, I seem to remember that there were some changes to the GMCs starting with the 1975 models, but I can't find a source for that information. If I get a 1976 or newer model, then I can benefit from subtle improvements made to the latter year coaches, but I'll be stuck doing a smog check every two years.
>>
>> Can someone point me in the direction of where I can learn a little more about the differences between the early and later models?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Guy
> What condition/price range?
> --
> '73 23' CanyonLands
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer? [message #141378 is a reply to message #141346] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 16:00 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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A few differences off hand:
73/74 have plywood cabinets. Later models (aside from upfitted transmodes) have
very heavy particle board cabinets. If the coach leaks, the particle board falls apart.
The earlier coaches had plywood dinette seats. Later coaches had flexsteel seats.
I find the plywood is lighter and provides more storage, but it's a personal preference.
The '73 (and I think '74) ran a copper city water fill line from the driver's side,
over the roof inside, and down to the bath module. This means they had a dropped
plastic ceiling panel in the hallway to cover up the pipe. Can always be changed,
just one of the differences. '75 and later coaches used plastic instead of copper pipes.
The suspension controls changed in (I think) '76. Both our '73 and '75 coaches
have the first generation leveling valves.
The windows changed in '75 to Hehr brand windows. The earlier windows are ok, but have
to rebuilt differently. I've rebuilt all the windows on both our coaches.
I find I like some things better on the early ones (no rubber on the outside to shrink/rot),
and some better on the later ones (frames have fewer joints). The glass slides
open/closed a lot easier on the '73 coach. None of the rebuilt windows on either of
our coaches currently leak.
There are minor cosmetic differences. For example, the '73 interior window trim corners
have three screws, the '75 has two screws each. I believe later coaches did away
with the plastic window trims entirely and went to a U-shaped edge treatment that
clips onto the interior paneling. The glove boxes also changed throughout the model years.
The rear generator and propane compartments on the early coaches is made of plywood
with some sheet metal inside for fire prevention. Later coaches have welded
aluminum boxes.
If you want a 23', there were very few built in '75. See: http://gmcmhregistry.com/Trivia.html
All the transmode coaches (upfitted by other companies) were made in '76 and later.
The dash air conditioners, as I understand it, really didn't get acceptable until about '77.
Our '75 dash a/c is different, but I wouldn't really say any better than the '73 coach.
You can modify the front a/c to work better.
The rear suspension bogie pins were changed from 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" in '75. Probably doesn't
matter if they're well cared for, especially on a lighter 23' coach. Our 23' bogies were trashed,
so we replaced them with later model bogies with new bigger pins. They just bolt into
the same place on the frame with no modification required.
The earlier coaches had less reinforcement on the front a-arms. This can be added.
Personally, I'd go for the one-ton front end kit if I were going to keep our 23' coach
because I think that's superior to any of the model year front ends. Again, personal choice.
The biggie for us: aside from the hassle/expense of smog checks, if you want to change
to fuel injection, you're pretty much stuck unless you do '75 or earlier.
That's why we have the coaches we do.
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer? [message #141379 is a reply to message #141346] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 16:06 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| SWA Guy wrote on Sun, 28 August 2011 10:54 |
I have owned a couple of 26 footers in the past. I am now looking for a 23' GMC.
...
< snipped >
...
Can someone point me in the direction of where I can learn a little more
about the differences between the early and later models?
|
Guy,
While all the running improvements made over the years are nice to have (except maybe the 403 "upgrade") all of them together do not 'trump' coach CONDITION.
Unless you want to rebuild or restore it, look for a well maintained 73/74 23 foot coach. (If I lived in "Cali" I would try and avoid having a 76 or newer coach.)
Note there ARE a few 1975 23 foot coaches... just not very many. I think that 23 foot AVION is still for sale in North Carolina. But I doubt it meets anyones definition of "well maintained".
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5604>
By now, he might have lowered his expectations to within reason.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer? [message #141387 is a reply to message #141378] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 17:31 |
Guy Lopes
Messages: 499
Registered: April 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Thanks to all for some great information!
I seem to remember that the early coaches didn't have the insulation beneath
the sub-floor that the later coaches do. Can anyone confirm? And, is this
really a problem for anyone? Higher heat or road noise on the early GMCs
maybe?
I knew about the smaller diameter bogie pins on the early coaches. I bet Jim
K. can fix me up with the later larger ones if they're problematic.
I anticipate being able to drive a newly purchased GMC to Jim at Applied GMC
for various upgrades. Quadrabag system, disk brake upgrade, possibly
dropping the tanks, etc. So I am interested in a coach that has already had
these upgrades, or can at least make it to Freemont from wherever it sits
now.
I'm still on the fence about buying a 23' vs 26' GMC. 1) I can just fit a 23
footer in my driveway to work on it. A 26' GMC needs to be out on the side
street and then the City won't allow it to be there for more than 72 hours!
2) My Wife and I will be travelling alone with our two dogs. I'm thinking
that 23' is a good balance, especially considering #1 above. I would be
interested in hearing from a couple with a 23' and if they ever wished they
had the extra 3 ft.
Thanks again. What a great community!
Guy
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of KB
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 2:01 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer?
A few differences off hand:
73/74 have plywood cabinets. Later models (aside from upfitted transmodes)
have
very heavy particle board cabinets. If the coach leaks, the particle board
falls apart.
<snip>
That's why we have the coaches we do.
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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Guy Lopes
76 Birchaven "Orion"
Sacramento, CA
W6TOL
www.GMC-Guy.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer? [message #141391 is a reply to message #141387] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 17:51 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| SWA Guy wrote on Sun, 28 August 2011 15:31 |
...
I seem to remember that the early coaches didn't have the insulation beneath
the sub-floor that the later coaches do. Can anyone confirm? ...
|
Correct.
One of the changes done with the m.y. 1975 changes was the floor. They went to a thinner plywood with isolation under it. It also had an aluminum lower skin. It handles the heat from the mufflers a LITTLE better than the earlier thick plywood. (Most coaches have the isolation 'drooping' a bit over the muffles by now.) Unless you are in a very cold or very hot area, I do not believe the isolation has much value.
| Quote: |
... My Wife and I will be travelling alone with our two dogs. I'm thinking
that 23' is a good balance, especially considering #1 above. I would be
interested in hearing from a couple with a 23' and if they ever wished they
had the extra 3 ft. ...
|
We (two of us) travel with two _SMALL_ dogs. The 23 footer is all we need.
Four adults and the two small dogs can travel nicely in the smaller coach but if we try to SLEEP all of us in the coach, we really miss our larger 26 foot coach.
As for dogs: For larger or active medium sized dogs.... get a 26 foot coach.
For what it is worth, I like the 23 foot coaches.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer? [message #141399 is a reply to message #141387] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 18:04 |
jade
Messages: 163
Registered: August 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Guy;
We have had our 23' for 28 years now and are still using it, and for a
longest time didn't even know the difference.
We now have a 26' that is in in the early stages of renovation.
We are kind of anxious to see the difference as we also travel with 2 dogs
and no children although in the early years we were foster parents for 4
mentally and physically challenged young adults for 17 years, and they
traveled in state only, as we could not take them out of state. We made use
of a tent for them. Then we moved to AZ.
Wouldn't have done anything different.
JADE
73 23' ?? 73 26' Painted Desert
Ajo, AZ
KC7QGC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Lopes" <guylopes@surewest.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer?
> Thanks to all for some great information!
>
> I seem to remember that the early coaches didn't have the insulation
> beneath
> the sub-floor that the later coaches do. Can anyone confirm? And, is this
> really a problem for anyone? Higher heat or road noise on the early GMCs
> maybe?
>
> I knew about the smaller diameter bogie pins on the early coaches. I bet
> Jim
> K. can fix me up with the later larger ones if they're problematic.
>
> I anticipate being able to drive a newly purchased GMC to Jim at Applied
> GMC
> for various upgrades. Quadrabag system, disk brake upgrade, possibly
> dropping the tanks, etc. So I am interested in a coach that has already
> had
> these upgrades, or can at least make it to Freemont from wherever it sits
> now.
>
> I'm still on the fence about buying a 23' vs 26' GMC. 1) I can just fit a
> 23
> footer in my driveway to work on it. A 26' GMC needs to be out on the side
> street and then the City won't allow it to be there for more than 72
> hours!
> 2) My Wife and I will be travelling alone with our two dogs. I'm thinking
> that 23' is a good balance, especially considering #1 above. I would be
> interested in hearing from a couple with a 23' and if they ever wished
> they
> had the extra 3 ft.
>
> Thanks again. What a great community!
>
> Guy
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of KB
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 2:01 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer?
>
> A few differences off hand:
>
> 73/74 have plywood cabinets. Later models (aside from upfitted
> transmodes)
> have
> very heavy particle board cabinets. If the coach leaks, the particle
> board
> falls apart.
>
> <snip>
>
> That's why we have the coaches we do.
>
> Karen
> 1973 23'
> 1975 26'
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Looking for a California 23 footer? [message #141403 is a reply to message #141387] |
Sun, 28 August 2011 18:21 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Guy,
Our '76 GMC has been perfect for the two of us. We've been from Key West to
Fairbanks with it. While we usually tow a car, it's for convenience, not
necessity. As I mentioned recently, 26' owners who visit us often comment
that we have "so much more room than theirs". It's an illusion, of course,
but when I remodeled it, an open living area was my primary objective.
Here's the original configuration:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3055
later modified with:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3329
We have carried a couple of grand kids with us a couple of times, with a
bunk in the cockpit and a pallet on the floor, but we never planned for
that.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Guy Lopes <guylopes@surewest.net> wrote:
> ...
2) My Wife and I will be travelling alone with our two dogs. I'm thinking
> that 23' is a good balance, especially considering #1 above. I would be
> interested in hearing from a couple with a 23' and if they ever wished they
> had the extra 3 ft.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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