Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » R134a Conversion
| R134a Conversion [message #134370] |
Tue, 12 July 2011 16:17  |
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Who's done it, and what did you change? I know all old oil and R12 needs to be flushed from the system, and that all O-rings need to be changed to the green neoprene ones, and a new reciever dryer must be added along with a new orifice tube, other than that is there anything that needs to be done to the compressor or lines them self?
73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion [message #134375 is a reply to message #134370] |
Tue, 12 July 2011 16:57  |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Are you aware of the fact that a conversion from R12 to R134a will
reduce the efficiency (and cooling ability) of your system by about
10% and all those changes are expensive. Some even insist on replacing
all the hoses as the R12 mineral oil soaks into the hoses and it is
not compatible with the synthetic oil required with R134a.
That is why so many of us have put in Duracool (HC12a). It does not
require any flushing or changes to O rings nor a new drier. It is
compatible with the R12 oil and, best of all, it's cheap (three cans
or less at $8.00 per can) AND it's more efficient and cooler than the
original R12 and the high side operates at about 100 psi less which
means less wear and tear on the compressor and less load on the
engine. Another benefit is that the molecule is larger so it doesn't
leak as much.
With R12 I used to have to put in a can a year to make up for leakage
(probably past the seals). After installing Duracool about 9 years ago
I no longer have to add any.
Where do you live? There is probably a GMCer near you that could
assist you with it's installation
Emery Stora
On Jul 12, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Shan Rose <defconfx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Who's done it, and what did you change? I know all old oil and R12
> needs to be flushed from the system, and that all O-rings need to be
> changed to the green neoprene ones, and a new reciever dryer must be
> added along with a new orifice tube, other than that is there
> anything that needs to be done to the compressor or lines them self?
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion [message #134381 is a reply to message #134370] |
Tue, 12 July 2011 17:42 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Shan said " Who's done it..."
But why? This isn't one of those, because I could, things. When Duracool works with the R-12 oil and o-rings, saving you the trouble of changing all of that, and it runs at a lower pressure saving you horsepower, and because of that lower pressure and it's somewhat larger molecule size it tends to leak less, why use anything else? Perhaps because the local A/C guy doesn't work with R-12a?
My local A/C guy didn't know anything about Duracool and would have prepped the thing for R-134a if I hadn't said no.
I suppose to each his own.
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
The Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion [message #134390 is a reply to message #134370] |
Tue, 12 July 2011 18:47 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Emory's said it All!
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
On Jul 12, 2011, at 5:17 PM, Shan Rose wrote:
>
>
> Who's done it, and what did you change? I know all old oil and R12
> needs to be flushed from the system, and that all O-rings need to be
> changed to the green neoprene ones, and a new receiver dryer must be
> added along with a new orifice tube, other than that is there
> anything that needs to be done to the compressor or lines them self?
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion [message #134404 is a reply to message #134390] |
Tue, 12 July 2011 20:13 |
MikeT
Messages: 225
Registered: November 2009
Location: Marine City, Michigan
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Emery, as you know, I made the big mistake of converting to the R134 last year. I did so because I didn't do my homework and let the AC guy talk me into it. Replaced a leaking hose, the o-rings and the drier. He changed the adaptor and filled it up. I only used the GMC twice last year after conversion. Dash AC worked well but I had nothing to compare it to.
Well, fired it up the other day and guess what? No dash AC. Blows hot ambient air. Not sure why; leak probably. Now I have to take it back to him to see what is up and probably pay anther $200.00
Now my question is, can I recharge with Duracool or am I committed to R134?
Thanks
Mike Thomas
Marine City, MI
77 ex Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion [message #134407 is a reply to message #134404] |
Tue, 12 July 2011 20:18 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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You can change to Duracool right now. It is also totally compatible with the oil used with R134a. You will notice a big improvement. Check with some of the Great Lakers. Someone there will help you install it.
Emery Stora
On Jul 12, 2011, at 7:13 PM, Thomas Mike wrote:
>
>
> Emery, as you know, I made the big mistake of converting to the R134 last year. I did so because I didn't do my homework and let the AC guy talk me into it. Replaced a leaking hose, the o-rings and the drier. He changed the adaptor and filled it up. I only used the GMC twice last year after conversion. Dash AC worked well but I had nothing to compare it to.
>
> Well, fired it up the other day and guess what? No dash AC. Blows hot ambient air. Not sure why; leak probably. Now I have to take it back to him to see what is up and probably pay anther $200.00
>
> Now my question is, can I recharge with Duracool or am I committed to R134?
>
> Thanks
> --
> Mike Thomas
> Troy, MI
> 77 ex Palm Beach, 77 Purple ex Palm Beach, 77 Royale (rear bath)
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| Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion [message #134408 is a reply to message #134407] |
Tue, 12 July 2011 20:23 |
MikeT
Messages: 225
Registered: November 2009
Location: Marine City, Michigan
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Emery.
I'm ordering a case of Duracool for my brothers Royale and now I know what I can do with the rest of the case after we see if it has a leak.
Mike Thomas
Marine City, MI
77 ex Palm Beach
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| Re: R134a Conversion [message #134411 is a reply to message #134370] |
Tue, 12 July 2011 20:53 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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AND 134a is not totally safe for the environment(ozone depletion wise) and much more toxic to humans and other life forms than R12. 'Only use 134a in vehicles that were engineered to use 134a' is my moto. Everything is oversized and valved accodingly. Also the price of 134a has doubled and will continue to do so as it is on limited legislated time line to phasing out.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: R134a Conversion [message #134485 is a reply to message #134479] |
Wed, 13 July 2011 16:02 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| Firedemon698 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2011 15:26 |
Ok my reasoning to go with R-134a is Availability, and non flammability. I can find 134 from gas stations to Target and about every autoparts place inbetween. I have yet to see duracool or other hydrocarbon refridgerants available locally. This also makes me think that it may not be legal in CA. Done correctly an R134 conversion blows pleanty cold. Also since I hve leaks in my system and my compressor is suspect, so converting now wouldn't be that big of a hassle. I had an old lexus LS400 converted professionally for almost 2 grand once. The old compressor was shot and that part alone was almost 1k. That thing blew so damn cold you could get a brain freeze from it...
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Freeze 12 is supposed to be a legal and direct replacement for R12. As I understand it, there are no changes that have to be made to your system to use it, other than possibly change the oil (which I would recommend as Freeze 12 is a mix of R134a and other stuff). Recover the existing refrigerant, flush the system, vacuum the sytem, and recharge with Freeze 12 and oil. That might be outdated info, I dunno. I have seen Freeze 12 on ebay. Ranges from about $10 per can to over $20 per can. I don't know how many cans you would need for a full charge of your system.
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| Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion [message #134488 is a reply to message #134485] |
Wed, 13 July 2011 16:10 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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My two cents
134a destroyed the A/C on our 1985 El Camino.
After two years I'm rebuilding the system.
Bad choice on my part to us 134a
Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: "A." <markbb1@netzero.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion
>
>
> Firedemon698 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2011 15:26
>> Ok my reasoning to go with R-134a is Availability, and non flammability.
>> I can find 134 from gas stations to Target and about every autoparts
>> place inbetween. I have yet to see duracool or other hydrocarbon
>> refridgerants available locally. This also makes me think that it may not
>> be legal in CA. Done correctly an R134 conversion blows pleanty cold.
>> Also since I hve leaks in my system and my compressor is suspect, so
>> converting now wouldn't be that big of a hassle. I had an old lexus LS400
>> converted professionally for almost 2 grand once. The old compressor was
>> shot and that part alone was almost 1k. That thing blew so damn cold you
>> could get a brain freeze from it...
> Freeze 12 is supposed to be a legal and direct replacement for R12. As I
> understand it, there are no changes that have to be made to your system to
> use it, other than possibly change the oil (which I would recommend as
> Freeze 12 is a mix of R134a and other stuff). Recover the existing
> refrigerant, flush the system, vacuum the sytem, and recharge with Freeze
> 12 and oil. That might be outdated info, I dunno. I have seen Freeze 12
> on ebay. Ranges from about $10 per can to over $20 per can. I don't know
> how many cans you would need for a full charge of your system.
> --
> '73 23' CanyonLands
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion [message #134490 is a reply to message #134488] |
Wed, 13 July 2011 17:27 |
Firedemon698
Messages: 3
Registered: December 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Hod did it do that? Sounds like the system was overcharged. With 134 you use 20% less...
| hnielsen2 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2011 14:10 |
My two cents
134a destroyed the A/C on our 1985 El Camino.
After two years I'm rebuilding the system.
Bad choice on my part to us 134a
Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: "A." <markbb1@netzero.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion
>
>
> Firedemon698 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2011 15:26
>> Ok my reasoning to go with R-134a is Availability, and non flammability.
>> I can find 134 from gas stations to Target and about every autoparts
>> place inbetween. I have yet to see duracool or other hydrocarbon
>> refridgerants available locally. This also makes me think that it may not
>> be legal in CA. Done correctly an R134 conversion blows pleanty cold.
>> Also since I hve leaks in my system and my compressor is suspect, so
>> converting now wouldn't be that big of a hassle. I had an old lexus LS400
>> converted professionally for almost 2 grand once. The old compressor was
>> shot and that part alone was almost 1k. That thing blew so damn cold you
>> could get a brain freeze from it...
> Freeze 12 is supposed to be a legal and direct replacement for R12. As I
> understand it, there are no changes that have to be made to your system to
> use it, other than possibly change the oil (which I would recommend as
> Freeze 12 is a mix of R134a and other stuff). Recover the existing
> refrigerant, flush the system, vacuum the sytem, and recharge with Freeze
> 12 and oil. That might be outdated info, I dunno. I have seen Freeze 12
> on ebay. Ranges from about $10 per can to over $20 per can. I don't know
> how many cans you would need for a full charge of your system.
> --
> '73 23' CanyonLands
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion [message #134496 is a reply to message #134485] |
Wed, 13 July 2011 18:22 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Mark,
You're talking about a completely different product (Freeze 12) vs
Duracool. No one I know in the GMC community really recommend the use
of Freeze 12. According to some suppliers, Freeze 12 production was
discontinued earlier this year. ( See: http://autorefrigerants.com/co00030.htm
) One suppliers replacement was called ES-12A appears to have the
same chemical makeup at Duracool. Anyway all comments that have
appear here on the GMC net are about Duracool or other similar
products with the same basic chemical makeup. As for the comments
from some other suppliers that used R-134 there is just not enough
propane or other flammables to reach the LEL( Lower explosive Limit )
necessary to have a fire or explosion.
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
On Jul 13, 2011, at 5:02 PM, A. wrote:
>
>
> Firedemon698 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2011 15:26
>> Ok my reasoning to go with R-134a is Availability, and non
>> flammability. I can find 134 from gas stations to Target and about
>> every autoparts place inbetween. I have yet to see duracool or
>> other hydrocarbon refridgerants available locally. This also makes
>> me think that it may not be legal in CA. Done correctly an R134
>> conversion blows pleanty cold. Also since I hve leaks in my system
>> and my compressor is suspect, so converting now wouldn't be that
>> big of a hassle. I had an old lexus LS400 converted professionally
>> for almost 2 grand once. The old compressor was shot and that part
>> alone was almost 1k. That thing blew so damn cold you could get a
>> brain freeze from it...
> Freeze 12 is supposed to be a legal and direct replacement for R12.
> As I understand it, there are no changes that have to be made to
> your system to use it, other than possibly change the oil (which I
> would recommend as Freeze 12 is a mix of R134a and other stuff).
> Recover the existing refrigerant, flush the system, vacuum the
> sytem, and recharge with Freeze 12 and oil. That might be outdated
> info, I dunno. I have seen Freeze 12 on ebay. Ranges from about
> $10 per can to over $20 per can. I don't know how many cans you
> would need for a full charge of your system.
> --
> '73 23' CanyonLands
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion [message #134505 is a reply to message #134479] |
Wed, 13 July 2011 19:16 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Kelsey,
I note you don't say what year/model of GMC you have, please advise.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelsey
Ok my reasoning to go with R-134a is Availability, and non flammability. I
can find 134 from gas stations to Target and about every autoparts place
inbetween. I have yet to see duracool or other hydrocarbon refridgerants
available locally. This also makes me think that it may not be legal in CA.
Done correctly an R134 conversion blows pleanty cold. Also since I hve leaks
in my system and my compressor is suspect, so converting now wouldn't be
that big of a hassle. I had an old lexus LS400 converted professionally for
almost 2 grand once. The old compressor was shot and that part alone was
almost 1k. That thing blew so damn cold you could get a brain freeze from
it...
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] R134a Conversion [message #134563 is a reply to message #134505] |
Thu, 14 July 2011 08:53 |
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Robert, that was actually me. I hadent noticed that my girlfriend had loged on under her acct and left it on my computer. So as far as this thread is concerned Kelseys posts belong to me.
I have a 73 canyon lands...
| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 13 July 2011 19:16 |
Kelsey,
I note you don't say what year/model of GMC you have, please advise.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelsey
Ok my reasoning to go with R-134a is Availability, and non flammability. I
can find 134 from gas stations to Target and about every autoparts place
inbetween. I have yet to see duracool or other hydrocarbon refridgerants
available locally. This also makes me think that it may not be legal in CA.
Done correctly an R134 conversion blows pleanty cold. Also since I hve leaks
in my system and my compressor is suspect, so converting now wouldn't be
that big of a hassle. I had an old lexus LS400 converted professionally for
almost 2 grand once. The old compressor was shot and that part alone was
almost 1k. That thing blew so damn cold you could get a brain freeze from
it...
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73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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