Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
| [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #133785] |
Fri, 08 July 2011 09:07  |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Good Morning
My next project is a new cab sound system. The plan is for a new satellite
radio and a GOOD EFFECTIVE speaker system.
Can anyone recommend a good speaker configuration, locations, types, etc ???
During our interior renovation we installed a lot of sound deadening materials
an the floor and sidewalls, that along with the new body pads has made our cab
much quieter, but we still need a good speaker system.
Thanks for your help.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #133845 is a reply to message #133785] |
Fri, 08 July 2011 19:36  |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676
Registered: August 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ray,
You ask a very good question to which there is an easy answer. Good headphones. Seriously.
The problem as you know is noise. A sound level meter would probably tell you that the ambient background in your cockpit is 70-80 db or more. Whatever you choose must override that first. Furthermore, a "left" speaker on the driver's side and a "right" across the way won't allow any stereo balance for two folks in the front.
If headphones don't appeal, my suggestion would be a sub woofer under one of the seats plus 4 smaller speakers, a left/right for you, the same for her, mounted as close to your noggins as possible.
Glenn Giere
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #133871 is a reply to message #133785] |
Sat, 09 July 2011 07:32 |
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Ray,
I understand your question and the reason for it. It's possible to achieve
what you want without a lot of pain while avoiding headphones. Matt's
arrangement is interesting. However, if you want to retain what's in the cab
it's possible to do.
Get a 1 unit radio. There are several models to choose from. Some with names
we all know (Sony, Pioneer, JBL, etc) and others we've not heard of. Get the
features you want. You can get one with an auxiliary in for the MP3 player
of your choice, one with controls for a docked iPhone/iPod, one that's
satellite ready, one with CD/DVD player, and one with a combination of
ingredients. The important thing is that they come pre-wired to support
expansion out the back; a Subwoofer or external amp.
The box for the subwoofer could be mounted in the center and held in place
with velcro our you could mount one somewhere else forward of the door.
It is also possible to get two-way speakers to fit the speaker cavity.
In my opinion, the OEM radios had very poor speakers. Of course, extremes in
heat and cold and the intervening years makes the speakers sound like crap
even if you have a good radio. So, speakers with decent frequency response
is the key factor.
I'd also suggest putting in a small switch by the speaker so you can switch
the speaker off by your ear for serious conversation or when you're at the
edge of the road trying to talk on your cell phone.
Crutchfield's site has a good app for figuring out what you can get.
http://www.crutchfield.com/app/car/outfitmycar/mycar.aspx?
I selected 1978 for the year and Suburban for the model. For the two-way
speakers that would fit you can select Dash. The thing about subwoofers is
that many of them are overpowered for the cabin. However, if you like
license-plate-rattling bass any nonmusical rapper would like, get the
biggest one with the most watts of a self-powered design. My suggestion is
to get a compact, powered sub. My personal favorite is the Yamaha
YST-FSW150. It is powered about right and has the frequency response to
deliver good quality. It can fit against the wall on either side of the
cockpit and, since it's down-fired, could be heard from the either side.
However, I'd position it by the slope in front of the engine hatch leaving
clearance for the times you want the auto heater on. The Sound Ordnance B-8
is also a good choice and could be put under one of the seats if you take
the trap door off.
I hope this helps and makes sense.
--
Byron Songer
Louisville, KY
http://www.gmceast.com
Ray Erspamer wrote:
> Good Morning
>
> My next project is a new cab sound system. The plan is for a new satellite
> radio and a GOOD EFFECTIVE speaker system.
>
> Can anyone recommend a good speaker configuration, locations, types, etc ???
>
> During our interior renovation we installed a lot of sound deadening materials
> an the floor and sidewalls, that along with the new body pads has made our cab
> much quieter, but we still need a good speaker system.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Ray
>
>
> Ray & Lisa Erspamer
> 78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
> Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
> Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
> Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
> 414-745-3188
> Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #133874 is a reply to message #133785] |
Sat, 09 July 2011 08:39 |
Mike Teets
Messages: 299
Registered: January 2004
Location: Dublin, OH
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I have a set of 6 inch bookshelf style speakers on the cab floor just either
side of the seats. I put them there temporarily as I figured out the
question you were asking... that was 8 years ago. I put them in to replace
some 6x9's mounted in boxes behind the headrest of the seats just because
those looked awful. They work surprisingly well. The base produced by
these units seem better than automotive style speakers without the need for
a subwoofer. They seem to work better with the ambient noise from the
engine as well. Mine came from RadioShack... similar to
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11133075 I didn't
buy them for this application, they were speakers I removed from a boat I
had prior to the GMC.
Mike
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Ray Erspamer <78gmc-royale@att.net> wrote:
> Good Morning
>
> My next project is a new cab sound system. The plan is for a new satellite
> radio and a GOOD EFFECTIVE speaker system.
>
> Can anyone recommend a good speaker configuration, locations, types, etc
> ???
>
> During our interior renovation we installed a lot of sound deadening
> materials
> an the floor and sidewalls, that along with the new body pads has made our
> cab
> much quieter, but we still need a good speaker system.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Ray
>
>
> Ray & Lisa Erspamer
> 78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
> Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
> Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
> Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
> 414-745-3188
> Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Mike, GMCing since 2002
77 Palm Beach, 260, 403
Dublin, OH
http://teamteets.com/gmc/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #133892 is a reply to message #133785] |
Sat, 09 July 2011 10:49 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ray,
In my previous life, I was involved pretty heavily in consumer electronics
actually covering both sides of the table as a reap and store owner. Here is
how and the reasons I do what we do with sound for the GMC.
Anything can be done with "cubic dollars" and an unlimited supply of current,
the trick is to have a system that does not suck the life out of your batteries
in case you want to dry camp and one that has all the "KPD's" (that's knobe per
dollar) you need to do all the things you want your sound system to do. Here
are a few of those features:
DIN (2"x7" hole cut out), remote, USB input, mini phono or RCA input on back),
Sirus if you want that, simple operation (no tiny buttons or obscure logic,
There are other cool things like a 7" LCD screen for backup camera, maybe GPS,
RCA outputs for an amp if you want to pump up the sound level but remember the
more complicated the system the harder it will be to maintain it and when just
one issue breaks it will annoy you to the point you will want to change it out
so I try and stay away from getting too convoluted. A head unit with the basic
convienance stuff should cost less that $150, you will be in the $250-400 range
if you include the LCD screen and some of the other "LPD" (Lights per dollar)
stuff.
If your coach is a 1973-4-5 or early 76, it is wired "common ground". That means
there is 1 wire to each original speaker location. Too bad, all new radios
require 2 wires to each speaker-- sure there is an adapter but it sucks the
power and quality of the sound so if you have a common grounded system, you will
need to run all new wiring for the speakers. Sorry man. It's not really that
big a deal though.
Speakers-- Bass or low freq. notes are the harder thing for an auto sound system
to reproduce. It takes a large surface area on the speaker cone and more
power. Hi freq. sounds are easy so if you don;t want your system to chase away
cats and dogs, be concerned about the bass sound. Also, you ear was designed
back in primeval days to warn you when a Mastadon was about to eat you, midrange
sounds are the most efficient and since mids give you a "live" sound, you want
to know you can reproduce mids well. You would think a 3 way speaker would be
better than a 2 way or single cone. They would be if you had a sub woofer but
in a low power apllication, you need a speaker that does not have a pile of crap
in front of the larger low freq. driver and one that does not have an abundance
of hi freq. drivers so I use a 2 way speaker and in the bedroom area a single
cone speaker with a "wizzer" cone in the middle. I would think you would want
mellow, soft sound, devoid of raspy tinkling highs in the bedroom, I mean you
need to relax. Your ear does not like high pitch sounds so a tweeter in the
bedroom may not let you or more certainly your wife sleep. Hey, they can hear
higher sounds than us hard tails can! I have a 4x10" speaker for the bedroom
that fits in the original location and has a big cone and no tweeter to keep you
up. A small magnet on a speaker means it will do more with a lower powered
signal. Yes, that raz out on hi power but wait, we are trying to do more with
less so you really do not want a speaker with a huge magnet, it takes more EMF
to move that large diameter voice coil and offset the flux field of that mondo
magnet.
Up front you have several acoustic issues. Fist is speaker placement. Having a
speaker right next to your head is great for lidstening to a ball game but you
don't get much stereo seperation. By the time you crank up the right speaker,
your copilot is screaming for mercy! OK, so the speaker location overhead is
not much good for seperation, center stage or sound balance. I install a
directional single bullet light in the overhead panel, install a single cone 3
1/2 speaker in the original location and use the original chrome light switch to
cut out that tweety little speaker when I want to listen to some critical
music. This feature can also be used by your copilot if they do not want to
listen to the ball game you are listening to.
You need a full sound throughout the cab and even in the main area of the coach
so speaker placement and phasing is really important. One great speaker
location is in the raised area in the side panels under the ledge on the side
panels. I will put a 6 1/2" 2 way speaker in that location. No reason to put a
3 way mainly because hi freq. sounds are "beamy" shooting straight out. If you
had ears on your ankles it might be different but you want mids and bass notes
to come from those locations. Cut out and put those peaks there, it will give
you a full sound and will be reasonble balanced.
Now, you need more than just 2 speakers, come on man! In the bottom of the
overhead cabinets facing down just behind the front seats is a great place for
ambient sound reinforcement. Since sounds spead out as the go down in freq. and
low freq. are the hardest to reproduce, another set of 6 1/2" 2 way speakers go
well there. The mids and highs are there for the folks sitting in the main area
of the coach, the low notes are for the driver and passenger.
So far I have not addresssed the hi freq. sound much and that's OK, highs are
irritating anyway-- If your mate is happy, you are happy and believe me when I
tell you hi freq. sounds irritate people. You have a treble control on the head
unit if you just have to hear timkling bells, I do not use speakers just to
creat hi notes, they will come wether I want them or not!
You can put another pair of 6 1/2" 2 ways in the back bottom of the overhead
cabinets to fill in the sound in the main area of the coach as well. We want
sound throughout the coach, I mean you don;t always stay in the driver seat!
Now comes a very important part of the sound system, imaging. This is done
partly with speaker placement but also with channel designation (what sound
content comes from each speaker-- left or right). Remember the old "quad" sound
systems and listening to that train go through your ears? OK, that was done bay
putting different music content to different speakers. Quad is gone, a pile of
the old sound stuff i dealt with is gone but acoustic theory does not change so
using speaker placement and content to each speaker we can create stereo
imaging. Left front (LF) speaker is up top at your head. LF is also connected
to the passenger side lower front speaker. Right front is up top at the
passenger and also at the drivers feet. This creates a cross imaging effect.
Now, do the same thing with the4 4 speakers in the main living area, cross left
& right, right and left. Doing this will give you stereo imaging throughought
the coach.
OK, now someone will bring up impedance in ohms of each channel. Yes, we are
now into say a 2 ohm or even less load. Head units today are very stable and if
you are not cranking the thing up to light speed, oit will work for your needs
into a low ohm load-- no problem. Connect the upper & lower speakers in the
front to the left & right front outputs of the head unit. Connect the 4 main
area speakers and even the 2 bedroom speakers to the rear L&R outputs of the
head unit. Maybe put n on/off switch on the bedroom speakers so someone can
sleep back there with the music off.
A system such as this has the features you look for in a sound system, it has
the sound you want throughout the coach and it also does this with a minimum of
current drain which you also want because when you run out of 12 VDC, you are
done! Now, if you want big sound fine, load up amps, sub woofers and be sure
you have the stand by cutrrent to run all of that. You can have 2 systems, one
using low current then fire up the amps and blow your brains out-- no problem.
Hope this helps, there are some other considerations but I've probably already
put some to sleep so if you need anything more, give me a call,
Jim Bounds
----------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Ray Erspamer <78gmc-royale@att.net>
To: GMC Net List <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Fri, July 8, 2011 10:07:15 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
Good Morning
My next project is a new cab sound system. The plan is for a new satellite
radio and a GOOD EFFECTIVE speaker system.
Can anyone recommend a good speaker configuration, locations, types, etc ???
During our interior renovation we installed a lot of sound deadening materials
an the floor and sidewalls, that along with the new body pads has made our cab
much quieter, but we still need a good speaker system.
Thanks for your help.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #133898 is a reply to message #133892] |
Sat, 09 July 2011 12:04 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thank you Jim! I have been thinking about how to go about setting up the sound system in my coach(when I get to the interior stage of my resto) and you have addressed all of my concerns-balanced sound,sustainable power draw,crankable quality when desired. I would also like to integrate a back up camera into my electronics. Currently my whole interior is removed and my plan is to build out all of my interior cabinets with wall and ceiling panels absent and then decide on outlet placement and wire routing/run wires,plumbing etc then remove cabinets and install paneling so I will be able to run anything necessary. I have not driven my coach much since purchase(less than 50 miles) so I don't have much of a baseline to determine what the audio needs will be while underway. I have read a few posts about how the cabin noise while underway is high and the best solution is headphones. I truly hope this will not be the case with mine after meticulous sealing of voids in joints and installation of sound deadening materials on the cab floor and rear wheel wells as well as covering the hard overhead surfaces with soft foam backed material.
There is one audio feature I have been considering here that you did not mention. What about outdoor sound? I have been thinking of everything from the simple-- just having a portable stereo that I bring out on a table by the door. Or perhaps speaker outlets pre wired into a side compartment(in my case the propane access door) and satelite speakers, to maybe even speakers built into the exterior on the entry/awning side.
Your thoughts,opinions??
All welcome to chime in
Sully
77 royale
Seattle wa
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 08:49:19
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Reply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
Ray,
In my previous life, I was involved pretty heavily in consumer electronics
actually covering both sides of the table as a reap and store owner. Here is
how and the reasons I do what we do with sound for the GMC.
Anything can be done with "cubic dollars" and an unlimited supply of current,
the trick is to have a system that does not suck the life out of your batteries
in case you want to dry camp and one that has all the "KPD's" (that's knobe per
dollar) you need to do all the things you want your sound system to do. Here
are a few of those features:
DIN (2"x7" hole cut out), remote, USB input, mini phono or RCA input on back),
Sirus if you want that, simple operation (no tiny buttons or obscure logic,
There are other cool things like a 7" LCD screen for backup camera, maybe GPS,
RCA outputs for an amp if you want to pump up the sound level but remember the
more complicated the system the harder it will be to maintain it and when just
one issue breaks it will annoy you to the point you will want to change it out
so I try and stay away from getting too convoluted. A head unit with the basic
convienance stuff should cost less that $150, you will be in the $250-400 range
if you include the LCD screen and some of the other "LPD" (Lights per dollar)
stuff.
If your coach is a 1973-4-5 or early 76, it is wired "common ground". That means
there is 1 wire to each original speaker location. Too bad, all new radios
require 2 wires to each speaker-- sure there is an adapter but it sucks the
power and quality of the sound so if you have a common grounded system, you will
need to run all new wiring for the speakers. Sorry man. It's not really that
big a deal though.
Speakers-- Bass or low freq. notes are the harder thing for an auto sound system
to reproduce. It takes a large surface area on the speaker cone and more
power. Hi freq. sounds are easy so if you don;t want your system to chase away
cats and dogs, be concerned about the bass sound. Also, you ear was designed
back in primeval days to warn you when a Mastadon was about to eat you, midrange
sounds are the most efficient and since mids give you a "live" sound, you want
to know you can reproduce mids well. You would think a 3 way speaker would be
better than a 2 way or single cone. They would be if you had a sub woofer but
in a low power apllication, you need a speaker that does not have a pile of crap
in front of the larger low freq. driver and one that does not have an abundance
of hi freq. drivers so I use a 2 way speaker and in the bedroom area a single
cone speaker with a "wizzer" cone in the middle. I would think you would want
mellow, soft sound, devoid of raspy tinkling highs in the bedroom, I mean you
need to relax. Your ear does not like high pitch sounds so a tweeter in the
bedroom may not let you or more certainly your wife sleep. Hey, they can hear
higher sounds than us hard tails can! I have a 4x10" speaker for the bedroom
that fits in the original location and has a big cone and no tweeter to keep you
up. A small magnet on a speaker means it will do more with a lower powered
signal. Yes, that raz out on hi power but wait, we are trying to do more with
less so you really do not want a speaker with a huge magnet, it takes more EMF
to move that large diameter voice coil and offset the flux field of that mondo
magnet.
Up front you have several acoustic issues. Fist is speaker placement. Having a
speaker right next to your head is great for lidstening to a ball game but you
don't get much stereo seperation. By the time you crank up the right speaker,
your copilot is screaming for mercy! OK, so the speaker location overhead is
not much good for seperation, center stage or sound balance. I install a
directional single bullet light in the overhead panel, install a single cone 3
1/2 speaker in the original location and use the original chrome light switch to
cut out that tweety little speaker when I want to listen to some critical
music. This feature can also be used by your copilot if they do not want to
listen to the ball game you are listening to.
You need a full sound throughout the cab and even in the main area of the coach
so speaker placement and phasing is really important. One great speaker
location is in the raised area in the side panels under the ledge on the side
panels. I will put a 6 1/2" 2 way speaker in that location. No reason to put a
3 way mainly because hi freq. sounds are "beamy" shooting straight out. If you
had ears on your ankles it might be different but you want mids and bass notes
to come from those locations. Cut out and put those peaks there, it will give
you a full sound and will be reasonble balanced.
Now, you need more than just 2 speakers, come on man! In the bottom of the
overhead cabinets facing down just behind the front seats is a great place for
ambient sound reinforcement. Since sounds spead out as the go down in freq. and
low freq. are the hardest to reproduce, another set of 6 1/2" 2 way speakers go
well there. The mids and highs are there for the folks sitting in the main area
of the coach, the low notes are for the driver and passenger.
So far I have not addresssed the hi freq. sound much and that's OK, highs are
irritating anyway-- If your mate is happy, you are happy and believe me when I
tell you hi freq. sounds irritate people. You have a treble control on the head
unit if you just have to hear timkling bells, I do not use speakers just to
creat hi notes, they will come wether I want them or not!
You can put another pair of 6 1/2" 2 ways in the back bottom of the overhead
cabinets to fill in the sound in the main area of the coach as well. We want
sound throughout the coach, I mean you don;t always stay in the driver seat!
Now comes a very important part of the sound system, imaging. This is done
partly with speaker placement but also with channel designation (what sound
content comes from each speaker-- left or right). Remember the old "quad" sound
systems and listening to that train go through your ears? OK, that was done bay
putting different music content to different speakers. Quad is gone, a pile of
the old sound stuff i dealt with is gone but acoustic theory does not change so
using speaker placement and content to each speaker we can create stereo
imaging. Left front (LF) speaker is up top at your head. LF is also connected
to the passenger side lower front speaker. Right front is up top at the
passenger and also at the drivers feet. This creates a cross imaging effect.
Now, do the same thing with the4 4 speakers in the main living area, cross left
& right, right and left. Doing this will give you stereo imaging throughought
the coach.
OK, now someone will bring up impedance in ohms of each channel. Yes, we are
now into say a 2 ohm or even less load. Head units today are very stable and if
you are not cranking the thing up to light speed, oit will work for your needs
into a low ohm load-- no problem. Connect the upper & lower speakers in the
front to the left & right front outputs of the head unit. Connect the 4 main
area speakers and even the 2 bedroom speakers to the rear L&R outputs of the
head unit. Maybe put n on/off switch on the bedroom speakers so someone can
sleep back there with the music off.
A system such as this has the features you look for in a sound system, it has
the sound you want throughout the coach and it also does this with a minimum of
current drain which you also want because when you run out of 12 VDC, you are
done! Now, if you want big sound fine, load up amps, sub woofers and be sure
you have the stand by cutrrent to run all of that. You can have 2 systems, one
using low current then fire up the amps and blow your brains out-- no problem.
Hope this helps, there are some other considerations but I've probably already
put some to sleep so if you need anything more, give me a call,
Jim Bounds
----------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Ray Erspamer <78gmc-royale@att.net>
To: GMC Net List <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Fri, July 8, 2011 10:07:15 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
Good Morning
My next project is a new cab sound system. The plan is for a new satellite
radio and a GOOD EFFECTIVE speaker system.
Can anyone recommend a good speaker configuration, locations, types, etc ???
During our interior renovation we installed a lot of sound deadening materials
an the floor and sidewalls, that along with the new body pads has made our cab
much quieter, but we still need a good speaker system.
Thanks for your help.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #133899 is a reply to message #133785] |
Sat, 09 July 2011 12:36 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I just put up some snapshots of the install I did on my '76. I used the original mounts, and put a pair of SSL 4 inchers in front, plus a pair of SSL 4x10s in the baqck. From Amazon, speakers were less than $50 shipped. Radio is a Kenwood 1 unit high box. If you bend the 'ears' in the dash steel back to make the original opening wide enough, the Kenwood mount is exactly the right size to slip in the opening. You can then bend the lock tabs top and bottom to hold the moubnt in palce, and bend the 'ears' to hold it side to side. Cut the plastic dash face, and glue or screw the Kenwood trim plate onto it. I may at some point add a sub, although it doesn't sound bad as it is.
--johnny
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/search.php?searchid=34844
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #133919 is a reply to message #133898] |
Sat, 09 July 2011 13:58 |
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Open air, like outside the coach, absorbs sound at a very high rate. That
means that the speakers that sound good in the coach will not produce much
sound if mounted for outside use.
At that point wattage and ohms become important. If I were you, I'd consider
coming off the RCA jacks on the back (line level) and use another amp (110v)
and speakers for use outside if you want something good. If you just want to
hear five feet from the speaker then ignore what I said.
--
Byron Songer
Louisville, KY
http://www.gmceast.com
sgltrac@gmail.com wrote:
> Thank you Jim! I have been thinking about how to go about setting up the sound
> system in my coach(when I get to the interior stage of my resto) and you have
> addressed all of my concerns-balanced sound,sustainable power draw,crankable
> quality when desired. I would also like to integrate a back up camera into my
> electronics. Currently my whole interior is removed and my plan is to build
> out all of my interior cabinets with wall and ceiling panels absent and then
> decide on outlet placement and wire routing/run wires,plumbing etc then remove
> cabinets and install paneling so I will be able to run anything necessary. I
> have not driven my coach much since purchase(less than 50 miles) so I don't
> have much of a baseline to determine what the audio needs will be while
> underway. I have read a few posts about how the cabin noise while underway is
> high and the best solution is headphones. I truly hope this will not be the
> case with mine after meticulous sealing of voids in joints and installation of
> sound deadening materials on the cab floor and rear wheel wells as well as
> covering the hard overhead surfaces with soft foam backed material.
> There is one audio feature I have been considering here that you did not
> mention. What about outdoor sound? I have been thinking of everything from the
> simple-- just having a portable stereo that I bring out on a table by the
> door. Or perhaps speaker outlets pre wired into a side compartment(in my case
> the propane access door) and satelite speakers, to maybe even speakers built
> into the exterior on the entry/awning side.
> Your thoughts,opinions??
> All welcome to chime in
>
> Sully
> 77 royale
> Seattle wa
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
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Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #133944 is a reply to message #133898] |
Sat, 09 July 2011 16:20 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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I left that one out, figured I had already said too much. You can pull a signal
off the wires going to the bedroom speakers, switch them to turn off when not
needed. Mount them in the frig side vent with the switch there. In the old
days we used to worry about too many speaks on a line, today you can do 3 sets
with no problem. If you get a head unit with a flat screen for the back up
camera. I have one of those systems going in now.
Hope this helps,
Jim Bounds
----------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: "sgltrac@gmail.com" <sgltrac@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sat, July 9, 2011 1:04:57 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
Thank you Jim! I have been thinking about how to go about setting up the sound
system in my coach(when I get to the interior stage of my resto) and you have
addressed all of my concerns-balanced sound,sustainable power draw,crankable
quality when desired. I would also like to integrate a back up camera into my
electronics. Currently my whole interior is removed and my plan is to build out
all of my interior cabinets with wall and ceiling panels absent and then decide
on outlet placement and wire routing/run wires,plumbing etc then remove cabinets
and install paneling so I will be able to run anything necessary. I have not
driven my coach much since purchase(less than 50 miles) so I don't have much of
a baseline to determine what the audio needs will be while underway. I have read
a few posts about how the cabin noise while underway is high and the best
solution is headphones. I truly hope this will not be the case with mine after
meticulous sealing of voids in joints and installation of sound deadening
materials on the cab floor and rear wheel wells as well as covering the hard
overhead surfaces with soft foam backed material.
There is one audio feature I have been considering here that you did not
mention. What about outdoor sound? I have been thinking of everything from the
simple-- just having a portable stereo that I bring out on a table by the door.
Or perhaps speaker outlets pre wired into a side compartment(in my case the
propane access door) and satelite speakers, to maybe even speakers built into
the exterior on the entry/awning side.
Your thoughts,opinions??
All welcome to chime in
Sully
77 royale
Seattle wa
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 08:49:19
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Reply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
Ray,
In my previous life, I was involved pretty heavily in consumer electronics
actually covering both sides of the table as a reap and store owner. Here is
how and the reasons I do what we do with sound for the GMC.
Anything can be done with "cubic dollars" and an unlimited supply of current,
the trick is to have a system that does not suck the life out of your batteries
in case you want to dry camp and one that has all the "KPD's" (that's knobe per
dollar) you need to do all the things you want your sound system to do. Here
are a few of those features:
DIN (2"x7" hole cut out), remote, USB input, mini phono or RCA input on back),
Sirus if you want that, simple operation (no tiny buttons or obscure logic,
There are other cool things like a 7" LCD screen for backup camera, maybe GPS,
RCA outputs for an amp if you want to pump up the sound level but remember the
more complicated the system the harder it will be to maintain it and when just
one issue breaks it will annoy you to the point you will want to change it out
so I try and stay away from getting too convoluted. A head unit with the basic
convienance stuff should cost less that $150, you will be in the $250-400 range
if you include the LCD screen and some of the other "LPD" (Lights per dollar)
stuff.
If your coach is a 1973-4-5 or early 76, it is wired "common ground". That means
there is 1 wire to each original speaker location. Too bad, all new radios
require 2 wires to each speaker-- sure there is an adapter but it sucks the
power and quality of the sound so if you have a common grounded system, you will
need to run all new wiring for the speakers. Sorry man. It's not really that
big a deal though.
Speakers-- Bass or low freq. notes are the harder thing for an auto sound system
to reproduce. It takes a large surface area on the speaker cone and more
power. Hi freq. sounds are easy so if you don;t want your system to chase away
cats and dogs, be concerned about the bass sound. Also, you ear was designed
back in primeval days to warn you when a Mastadon was about to eat you, midrange
sounds are the most efficient and since mids give you a "live" sound, you want
to know you can reproduce mids well. You would think a 3 way speaker would be
better than a 2 way or single cone. They would be if you had a sub woofer but
in a low power apllication, you need a speaker that does not have a pile of crap
in front of the larger low freq. driver and one that does not have an abundance
of hi freq. drivers so I use a 2 way speaker and in the bedroom area a single
cone speaker with a "wizzer" cone in the middle. I would think you would want
mellow, soft sound, devoid of raspy tinkling highs in the bedroom, I mean you
need to relax. Your ear does not like high pitch sounds so a tweeter in the
bedroom may not let you or more certainly your wife sleep. Hey, they can hear
higher sounds than us hard tails can! I have a 4x10" speaker for the bedroom
that fits in the original location and has a big cone and no tweeter to keep you
up. A small magnet on a speaker means it will do more with a lower powered
signal. Yes, that raz out on hi power but wait, we are trying to do more with
less so you really do not want a speaker with a huge magnet, it takes more EMF
to move that large diameter voice coil and offset the flux field of that mondo
magnet.
Up front you have several acoustic issues. Fist is speaker placement. Having a
speaker right next to your head is great for lidstening to a ball game but you
don't get much stereo seperation. By the time you crank up the right speaker,
your copilot is screaming for mercy! OK, so the speaker location overhead is
not much good for seperation, center stage or sound balance. I install a
directional single bullet light in the overhead panel, install a single cone 3
1/2 speaker in the original location and use the original chrome light switch to
cut out that tweety little speaker when I want to listen to some critical
music. This feature can also be used by your copilot if they do not want to
listen to the ball game you are listening to.
You need a full sound throughout the cab and even in the main area of the coach
so speaker placement and phasing is really important. One great speaker
location is in the raised area in the side panels under the ledge on the side
panels. I will put a 6 1/2" 2 way speaker in that location. No reason to put a
3 way mainly because hi freq. sounds are "beamy" shooting straight out. If you
had ears on your ankles it might be different but you want mids and bass notes
to come from those locations. Cut out and put those peaks there, it will give
you a full sound and will be reasonble balanced.
Now, you need more than just 2 speakers, come on man! In the bottom of the
overhead cabinets facing down just behind the front seats is a great place for
ambient sound reinforcement. Since sounds spead out as the go down in freq. and
low freq. are the hardest to reproduce, another set of 6 1/2" 2 way speakers go
well there. The mids and highs are there for the folks sitting in the main area
of the coach, the low notes are for the driver and passenger.
So far I have not addresssed the hi freq. sound much and that's OK, highs are
irritating anyway-- If your mate is happy, you are happy and believe me when I
tell you hi freq. sounds irritate people. You have a treble control on the head
unit if you just have to hear timkling bells, I do not use speakers just to
creat hi notes, they will come wether I want them or not!
You can put another pair of 6 1/2" 2 ways in the back bottom of the overhead
cabinets to fill in the sound in the main area of the coach as well. We want
sound throughout the coach, I mean you don;t always stay in the driver seat!
Now comes a very important part of the sound system, imaging. This is done
partly with speaker placement but also with channel designation (what sound
content comes from each speaker-- left or right). Remember the old "quad" sound
systems and listening to that train go through your ears? OK, that was done bay
putting different music content to different speakers. Quad is gone, a pile of
the old sound stuff i dealt with is gone but acoustic theory does not change so
using speaker placement and content to each speaker we can create stereo
imaging. Left front (LF) speaker is up top at your head. LF is also connected
to the passenger side lower front speaker. Right front is up top at the
passenger and also at the drivers feet. This creates a cross imaging effect.
Now, do the same thing with the4 4 speakers in the main living area, cross left
& right, right and left. Doing this will give you stereo imaging throughought
the coach.
OK, now someone will bring up impedance in ohms of each channel. Yes, we are
now into say a 2 ohm or even less load. Head units today are very stable and if
you are not cranking the thing up to light speed, oit will work for your needs
into a low ohm load-- no problem. Connect the upper & lower speakers in the
front to the left & right front outputs of the head unit. Connect the 4 main
area speakers and even the 2 bedroom speakers to the rear L&R outputs of the
head unit. Maybe put n on/off switch on the bedroom speakers so someone can
sleep back there with the music off.
A system such as this has the features you look for in a sound system, it has
the sound you want throughout the coach and it also does this with a minimum of
current drain which you also want because when you run out of 12 VDC, you are
done! Now, if you want big sound fine, load up amps, sub woofers and be sure
you have the stand by cutrrent to run all of that. You can have 2 systems, one
using low current then fire up the amps and blow your brains out-- no problem.
Hope this helps, there are some other considerations but I've probably already
put some to sleep so if you need anything more, give me a call,
Jim Bounds
----------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Ray Erspamer <78gmc-royale@att.net>
To: GMC Net List <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Fri, July 8, 2011 10:07:15 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
Good Morning
My next project is a new cab sound system. The plan is for a new satellite
radio and a GOOD EFFECTIVE speaker system.
Can anyone recommend a good speaker configuration, locations, types, etc ???
During our interior renovation we installed a lot of sound deadening materials
an the floor and sidewalls, that along with the new body pads has made our cab
much quieter, but we still need a good speaker system.
Thanks for your help.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #134010 is a reply to message #133919] |
Sun, 10 July 2011 07:56 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Byron,
I was shaking my haed about employing a current sucking amp until you said
110vac unit. That actually is a descent idea and in that you simply cannot
account for every possible situation, you would not be able to sit in an open
field, off the grid and listen to some soft music as you watched the fireflies
at dusk. Darn! Yea, acoustically speaking, you are absolutly right in trying
to make noise outside the coach but if all you want is some background sound or
listen to a ball game while fishing on the bank, a pair of speakers mounted on a
solid baffle board (1st order acoustic enclosure will gave some descent
sound.right next to the coach. Flip off the bedroom spks, bring the impedance
to a more stable resistence and the sound will improve out there. I'm not
trying to blow my brains out anymore, I've already done that. I think it was
that Grand Funk concert in 1971 that started my hearing loss. I now have
constant crickets in my ears to loud music is not as important as it used to be
to me-- I'm looking today for features.
Jim Bounds
-------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Byron Songer <bsonger@songerconsulting.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sat, July 9, 2011 2:58:23 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
Open air, like outside the coach, absorbs sound at a very high rate. That
means that the speakers that sound good in the coach will not produce much
sound if mounted for outside use.
At that point wattage and ohms become important. If I were you, I'd consider
coming off the RCA jacks on the back (line level) and use another amp (110v)
and speakers for use outside if you want something good. If you just want to
hear five feet from the speaker then ignore what I said.
--
Byron Songer
Louisville, KY
http://www.gmceast.com
sgltrac@gmail.com wrote:
> Thank you Jim! I have been thinking about how to go about setting up the sound
> system in my coach(when I get to the interior stage of my resto) and you have
> addressed all of my concerns-balanced sound,sustainable power draw,crankable
> quality when desired. I would also like to integrate a back up camera into my
> electronics. Currently my whole interior is removed and my plan is to build
> out all of my interior cabinets with wall and ceiling panels absent and then
> decide on outlet placement and wire routing/run wires,plumbing etc then remove
> cabinets and install paneling so I will be able to run anything necessary. I
> have not driven my coach much since purchase(less than 50 miles) so I don't
> have much of a baseline to determine what the audio needs will be while
> underway. I have read a few posts about how the cabin noise while underway is
> high and the best solution is headphones. I truly hope this will not be the
> case with mine after meticulous sealing of voids in joints and installation of
> sound deadening materials on the cab floor and rear wheel wells as well as
> covering the hard overhead surfaces with soft foam backed material.
> There is one audio feature I have been considering here that you did not
> mention. What about outdoor sound? I have been thinking of everything from the
> simple-- just having a portable stereo that I bring out on a table by the
> door. Or perhaps speaker outlets pre wired into a side compartment(in my case
> the propane access door) and satelite speakers, to maybe even speakers built
> into the exterior on the entry/awning side.
> Your thoughts,opinions??
> All welcome to chime in
>
> Sully
> 77 royale
> Seattle wa
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #134013 is a reply to message #134010] |
Sun, 10 July 2011 08:48 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
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--- On Sun, 7/10/11, Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com> wrote:
For sitting out, I have a Boston Accoustics 'Receptor' HD FM radio. Decent sound, not a great current drain as long as there's 110 available. One of the best, if you can find one, is the KLH FM table radio.
We built a remote van with outside coverage by using Bose marine speakers (Weatherproof cones) and putting eight on each side, Sounded great, we drove them with an aftermarket dual 200W amp and added a sub in the truck with its own 400W. Does require cutting holes in the side though.
--johnny
From: Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sunday, July 10, 2011, 12:56 PM
Byron,
I was shaking my haed about employing a current sucking amp until you said
110vac unit. That actually is a descent idea and in that you simply cannot
account for every possible situation, you would not be able to sit in an open
field, off the grid and listen to some soft music as you watched the fireflies
at dusk.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #134040 is a reply to message #134013] |
Sun, 10 July 2011 12:51 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
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For good long stereo power is it more efficient to have a deep 12v system(lots of batts) running a 12v stereo or a 120v system run off a converter? Don't want to have to run the onan just for tunes
Sully
77 royale
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com>
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 06:48:33
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Reply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
--- On Sun, 7/10/11, Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com> wrote:
For sitting out, I have a Boston Accoustics 'Receptor' HD FM radio. Decent sound, not a great current drain as long as there's 110 available. One of the best, if you can find one, is the KLH FM table radio.
We built a remote van with outside coverage by using Bose marine speakers (Weatherproof cones) and putting eight on each side, Sounded great, we drove them with an aftermarket dual 200W amp and added a sub in the truck with its own 400W. Does require cutting holes in the side though.
--johnny
From: Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sunday, July 10, 2011, 12:56 PM
Byron,
I was shaking my haed about employing a current sucking amp until you said
110vac unit. That actually is a descent idea and in that you simply cannot
account for every possible situation, you would not be able to sit in an open
field, off the grid and listen to some soft music as you watched the fireflies
at dusk.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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|
| Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System [message #134097 is a reply to message #134087] |
Sun, 10 July 2011 21:21 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thanks rob
Sully
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 11:21:25
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Reply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Cab Sound System
Sully,
Converters change 120 VAC to 12 VAC; inverters change 12 VAC to 120 VAC. No
inverter is 100% efficient so you will use more battery power if you get a
120 VAC system than if you ran a 12 VDC system directly from the batteries.
JimB wired my radio to a fuse on the panel behind the glove box that is hot
always, that way I can play the radio with the ignition switch off.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: sgltrac@gmail.com
For good long stereo power is it more efficient to have a deep 12v
system(lots of batts) running a 12v stereo or a 120v system run off a
converter? Don't want to have to run the onan just for tunes
Sully
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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