Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement [message #132687 is a reply to message #132683] |
Wed, 29 June 2011 21:22   |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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You're right. If the frame is 2" wide there, a 1/4" hole reduced the
beam strength of the frame by almost 12.5% (probably more like 10%) in
that area. The frame's not all that strong that we can afford that
sort of unnecessary damage.
Drilling the web of a channel or beam doesn't usually have much effect
-- that part of the member is there primarily to position the flanges,
which carry the vast majority of the load. Any hole in a flange IS a
big deal -- it directly affects the strength of the beam. ALWAYS a
bad idea unless there is no load on the member, such as a stub
extension.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
>...
> so we had to drill some small 1/4" holes in the frame in a few places. BTW
> KenH is going to tell you that this isn't a good idea. ;-)
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement [message #132693 is a reply to message #132687] |
Wed, 29 June 2011 21:59 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Ken,
I did not provide enough information regarding where I drilled the holes.
I drilled the holes in the 6" tall vertical section of the frame about 3/4"
down from the 2" wide horizontal section of the frame.
The tie wraps went through the holes under the hoses and over the top of the
horizontal sections of the frame.
I did not drill any holes in the horizontal sections of the frame.
I figger'd drilling in the vertical sections would be OK because there are
large holes drilled in that section to mount the bogies, cross frame
members, etc.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2011 12:23 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement
You're right. If the frame is 2" wide there, a 1/4" hole reduced the
beam strength of the frame by almost 12.5% (probably more like 10%) in
that area. The frame's not all that strong that we can afford that
sort of unnecessary damage.
Drilling the web of a channel or beam doesn't usually have much effect
-- that part of the member is there primarily to position the flanges,
which carry the vast majority of the load. Any hole in a flange IS a
big deal -- it directly affects the strength of the beam. ALWAYS a
bad idea unless there is no load on the member, such as a stub
extension.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement [message #132699 is a reply to message #132693] |
Wed, 29 June 2011 22:36 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Good. As I said, drilling the web (vertical part) isn't that big a
deal. Closer to the center is always best, but even close to the web
isn't too bad -- just don't drill the horizontal flange. ...
I started trying to explain why that is, but without the use of
mathematics, it gets too long-winded & I know no one wants us to start
posting equations. :-)
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Ken,
>
> I did not provide enough information regarding where I drilled the holes.
>
> I drilled the holes in the 6" tall vertical section of the frame about 3/4"
> down from the 2" wide horizontal section of the frame.
>...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement [message #132701 is a reply to message #132699] |
Wed, 29 June 2011 23:04 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Great, I'm not a dummy after all! ;-)
Now for some speculation:
Since the weight of a GMC pushes down on the frame the top horizontal
section is in compression and the bottom horizontal section is in tension.
Drilling holes in the bottom would be worse than the top?
Am I Full - Of - S#&t or is this a reasonable question?
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2011 1:36 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement
Rob,
Good. As I said, drilling the web (vertical part) isn't that big a
deal. Closer to the center is always best, but even close to the web
isn't too bad -- just don't drill the horizontal flange. ...
I started trying to explain why that is, but without the use of
mathematics, it gets too long-winded & I know no one wants us to start
posting equations. :-)
Ken H.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement [message #132718 is a reply to message #132701] |
Thu, 30 June 2011 04:46 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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No, that's for sure, but some bystanders have never been exposed to
this stuff at all.
True. If you simply can't resist the urge to drill in a flange, do it
at the top. :-)
Ken H.
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:04 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Great, I'm not a dummy after all! ;-)
...
> Since the weight of a GMC pushes down on the frame the top horizontal
> section is in compression and the bottom horizontal section is in tension.
>
> Drilling holes in the bottom would be worse than the top?
...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement [message #132729 is a reply to message #132701] |
Thu, 30 June 2011 06:58 |
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Hardie Johnson
Messages: 483
Registered: January 2004
Location: Raleigh NC
Karma: 0
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 00:04 |
Ken,
Great, I'm not a dummy after all! 
Now for some speculation:
Since the weight of a GMC pushes down on the frame the top horizontal section is in compression and the bottom horizontal section is in tension. Drilling holes in the bottom would be worse than the top?
Am I Full - Of - S#&t or is this a reasonable question?
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
<>
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Oddly enough, for being upside down yourself, you did not get it wrong.
As I recall from structural steel class, the holes don't really have much effect in this case, but it is best to drill the web and not the flange as a general principle.
Hardie Johnson "Crashj"
1973 26 foot Glacier, White Thing
Raleigh NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement [message #132730 is a reply to message #132729] |
Thu, 30 June 2011 07:14 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Hardie Johnson wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 06:58 |
| Robert Mueller wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 00:04 |
Ken,
Great, I'm not a dummy after all!
Now for some speculation:
Since the weight of a GMC pushes down on the frame the top horizontal section is in compression and the bottom horizontal section is in tension. Drilling holes in the bottom would be worse than the top?
Am I Full - Of - S#&t or is this a reasonable question?
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
<>
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Oddly enough, for being upside down yourself, you did not get it wrong.
As I recall from structural steel class, the holes don't really have much effect in this case, but it is best to drill the web and not the flange as a general principle.
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I was wondering if that really applied to GMCs in Australia where they are upside down all the time.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement [message #132851 is a reply to message #132741] |
Thu, 30 June 2011 17:19 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 08:24 |
I thought about that, but then remembered he said he did it at the
Coop. Do you think I should send him a caution for down under?
Ken H.
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
>...
> I was wondering if that really applied to GMCs in Australia where they are upside down all the time.
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It might be a good idea. That way we can later tell him "I told you so" when he breaks or bends it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement [message #132942 is a reply to message #132701] |
Fri, 01 July 2011 01:52 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 29 June 2011 21:04 |
.., Now for some speculation:
Since the weight of a GMC pushes down on the frame the top horizontal
section is in compression and the bottom horizontal section is in tension. ...
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Only between the front and rear wheels. The overhang at each end is the opposite.
(Just for the record.)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water heater hose replacement [message #132971 is a reply to message #132942] |
Fri, 01 July 2011 10:19 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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| Mike Miller wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 01:52 |
| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 29 June 2011 21:04 |
.., Now for some speculation:
Since the weight of a GMC pushes down on the frame the top horizontal
section is in compression and the bottom horizontal section is in tension. ...
|
Only between the front and rear wheels. The overhang at each end is the opposite.
(Just for the record.)
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Not to drag out the discussion -- but the channel rails actually end just before the front wheels. so the overhang is only at the rear. The front overhang is in the clip, which is boxed.
I would be more concerned about, 1. large bends of the lower horizontal flange from improper jacking and 2. thinning of either of the horizontal flange sections 3. rust between the sections of the frame where it is doubled behind the bogies.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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