| Getting the Shaft [message #131674] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 13:07  |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
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Well after 2 trips to Southland it looks like i dont have a motorhome shaft. They say the motorhome shaft is shorter and bigger around than mine is. When i compared them side by side mine is about 1" in diam. the one they say is for the motorhome is about 1-7/16 around mine is about 6" longer with the gear teeth which goes into the FD is about 1" longer.
Has anybody else seen this. they say i may have a 3.07 car diff.
but i would think with the motorhome being wider would have the longer shaft. Looks like its gunna be an all niter.
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: Getting the Shaft [message #131675 is a reply to message #131674] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 13:14  |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
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Ted,
In this photo album SteveF has a number of pics of the drive axle -- including bearing replacement. May be of some help...
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4910
Dennis
| PettyVTX wrote on Thu, 23 June 2011 13:07 |
Well after 2 trips to Southland it looks like i dont have a motorhome shaft. They say the motorhome shaft is shorter and bigger around than mine is. When i compared them side by side mine is about 1" in diam. the one they say is for the motorhome is about 1-7/16 around mine is about 6" longer with the gear teeth which goes into the FD is about 1" longer.
Has anybody else seen this. they say i may have a 3.07 car diff.
but i would think with the motorhome being wider would have the longer shaft. Looks like its gunna be an all niter.
Ted
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: Getting the Shaft [message #131679 is a reply to message #131674] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 13:25 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
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Thanks Dennis
That is the shaft that southland has it is like me short and fat.
Mine is thinner. Im going to try and get some pics of it.
(The above sounds more like a politician than a mechanic)
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: Getting the Shaft [message #131680 is a reply to message #131679] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 13:33 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
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| PettyVTX wrote on Thu, 23 June 2011 13:25 |
Thanks Dennis
That is the shaft that southland has it is like me short and fat.
Mine is thinner. Im going to try and get some pics of it.
(The above sounds more like a politician than a mechanic)
Ted
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Ted,
Searching the archives I see that the 66 Toronado switch/pitch final drive had different stub axle and support mounting.
Suggest you call JimK at Applied to see if he can help.
Manny T is the expert on this type of thing --
Dennis
Wouldn't it be nice if PO's documented their modifications///
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: Getting the Shaft [message #131682 is a reply to message #131674] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 13:41 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
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Dennis
you are so right i wish all mods of mechanical changes were documented.
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: Getting the Shaft [message #131686 is a reply to message #131674] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 14:52 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
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Ok here is the skinny on the shaft
Overall height 16 7/8 long
Splines 1 7/8 deep
Bearing face 1.470 (worn im suspecting)
Bearing- New Departure #RW507C
Going to google it now any help would be appreciated.
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: Getting the Shaft [message #131692 is a reply to message #131674] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 15:22 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
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After looking thru the archives i found that one of my PO's has changed a hell of a lot. Maybe for the good jury's out on that one. I have a 1966 switch pitch trans and final drive the output shaft is from that year Final Drive. The reason i guess my problem stems from is since the shaft is longer GM pu a brace at the bottom of the support bearing. There is a hole in my bracket but no bracket that is why my axle was moving in and out.so now im wondering if i have a longer output shaft is my outer axle shorter. I dont really think so because the support still bolts to the same position on the block.and it doesnt have the damper.
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] Getting the Shaft [message #131695 is a reply to message #131692] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 15:33 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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On Jun 23, 2011, at 2:22 PM, Ted Petty wrote:
>
>
> After looking thru the archives i found that one of my PO's has changed a hell of a lot. Maybe for the good jury's out on that one. I have a 1966 switch pitch trans and final drive the output shaft is from that year Final Drive. The reason i guess my problem stems from is since the shaft is longer GM pu a brace at the bottom of the support bearing. There is a hole in my bracket but no bracket that is why my axle was moving in and out.so now im wondering if i have a longer output shaft is my outer axle shorter. I dont really think so because the support still bolts to the same position on the block.and it doesnt have the damper.
> Ted
> --
> 75 Avion-----
>
> 75 cosworth Vega Toad
If your po put in a 3.21 final drive then it is my understanding that the right hand shaft and the support bracket for that final drive should have been installed and it is important to get those parts from the donor vehicle with the 3.21 final drive.
I found this in the archives:
----------------------
Ken Henderson
to gmclist
1. if you're using the metal cover, get some gasket material and make
one. if you're using an aluminum cover, use gray RTV.
2. the gasket for the 2/73/3.07/3.21 housings is the same.
3. The bearing for the shaft is very hard to find and the seal is
obsolete. I use the 3.07 brackets, bearing, and seal. I install a
sleeve for the bearing and the seal on the shaft.
5. The 3.21 final drive will not line up to the hole on the bracket
mounted to the block Reaming the final drive hole to 1/2" through the
bracket once its in place, will solve this.
-----------------------
This was also posted by Larry Weidner back in 2003:
---------------------
Thanks to Richard Smith of Colorado, I can confirm that the right side FD
seal for the Olds Toro FD 3.21 can be purchased from NAPA. It is a CR
(Chicago Rawhide) PN/13739. The left side seal is a CR-17746 or the more
common number which is a 404400. It should be noted that while both of these
seals fit perfectly, neither has the double lip on them as the OEM seal
did. Most people that I talked to including vendors insisted that a
replacement seal for the 3.21 has not been made for over 15 years. Some
insisted that you must install a sleeve over the seal area on the 3.21 shaft
and use a National 9621S. The sleeve is $45.00 plus install (if you don't
have a press).
Many thanks to Richard!!! :-)
Larry :-)
78 Royale
Menomonie, WI
---------------------------------------------------------
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Getting the Shaft [message #131700 is a reply to message #131674] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 13:46 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Hmmm, first I've ever heard of differences between the car and MH
shafts, aside from the 3.21 FD, which does, IIRC, have a different
one. Can't imagine how in the world there could be 6" difference in
length though -- the engine's only SO wide! Nor can I see any reason
for the MH to have a longer shaft, a main purpose of it being to
position the axle flanges the same distance from the engine centerline
on each side -- a measurement that would not change between a car and
a MH.
Something very strange here.
The shaft I have is 15-3/4" long, from the flange to the end of the
splines. Just outboard of the splines there's a machined surface
that's 1.500". That's very slightly larger than the un-milled surface
on most of the length of the shaft. Unless I lost count, there are 33
teeth in the splines.
I haven't checked to be positive these came from motorhomes and I
can't get underneath now to verify that; perhaps someone else can.
Ken H.
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Ted Petty <barbarapetty@windstream.net> wrote:
>
>
> Well after 2 trips to Southland it looks like i dont have a motorhome shaft. They say the motorhome shaft is shorter and bigger around than mine is. When i compared them side by side mine is about 1" in diam. the one they say is for the motorhome is about 1-7/16 around mine is about 6" longer with the gear teeth which goes into the FD is about 1" longer.
> Has anybody else seen this. they say i may have a 3.07 car diff.
> but i would think with the motorhome being wider would have the longer shaft. Looks like its gunna be an all niter.
> Ted
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Getting the Shaft [message #131704 is a reply to message #131674] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 16:07 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
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Ok smore goodies
splines=31
8 Bolt Cover
Shaft casting # 790??3
Jim knows his stuff
This site is a blithera of knowledge
im just glad im at my shop and not stranded somewhere
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
[Updated on: Thu, 23 June 2011 16:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Getting the Shaft [message #131708 is a reply to message #131674] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 16:29 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
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James
I guess that its a good thing to have a 3.21 and switch pitch.
To (Stop Draggin my heart around) take off better.
With 225/75/16 tire changes me to a 3.22
My head hurts now
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
[Updated on: Thu, 23 June 2011 16:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Getting the Shaft [message #131717 is a reply to message #131674] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 16:51 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
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I will Thanks Ken
Finding that braket is going to be a ordeal i bet.
But it looks like Autozone stocks the bearing im going to get one tommorow and see if it will fit the shaft at least that will get me mobile again . Only grinding on the shaft was about 1/8 of an inch. pics to follow.
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] Getting the Shaft [message #131719 is a reply to message #131717] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 16:57 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Chances are pretty good that John can help you with the bracket. If
not, from what you've told me, I figure you can make what you've got
work pretty well. The alignment of that shaft is not very critical:
Notice that the holes where it bolts to the engine are about 1/2 again
as big as the bolts -- so you can eyeball the alignment.
Ken H.
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Ted Petty wrote:
>
>
> I will Thanks Ken
> Finding that braket is going to be a ordeal i bet.
> But it looks like Autozone stocks the bearing im going to get one tommorow and see if it will fit the shaft at least that will get me mobile again . Only grinding on the shaft was about 1/8 of an inch. pics to follow.
> Ted
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Getting the Shaft [message #131721 is a reply to message #131674] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 17:05 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
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Yea it dont look too bad I can come off the bolt on the FD cover and only slight bend to a 90 to bolt to the support. Might have dodged the bullet here.
Thanks to all for your help i will get pics in a few
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] Getting the Shaft [message #131731 is a reply to message #131721] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 18:03 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Bolt on the FD cover??? I'm confused again. All the bearing supports
I've seen are just a nearly-flat plate secured to the engine on the
passenger side. Hangs down to the level of the FD output to support
the bearing there, which, in turn, supports the shaft right behind the
outer axle flange. I can't imagine why you need anything bolted on
the FD side of the engine.
...
OH!!! NOW I see: I found that I have a .copy of the Toronado manual
section on the 3.21. Fig. 3EC-4 in there shows the bracket -- and a
brace from it to the FD! I now presume that's what you're referring
to. I was so surprised, I checked X-7525 to be sure the MH shouldn't
have one also -- nope.
I wonder if the MH bracket is thicker/stiffer than that from the Toronado.
Ken H.
PS: I'll send you a copy of the 3.21 manual off-net. KH
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Ted Petty <barbarapetty@windstream.net> wrote:
>
>
> Yea it dont look too bad I can come off the bolt on the FD cover and only slight bend to a 90 to bolt to the support. Might have dodged the bullet here.
> Thanks to all for your help i will get pics in a few
> Ted
> --
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Getting the Shaft [message #131732 is a reply to message #131706] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 18:08 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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Call me and I'll straighten this out.
We played withthese back in i984.
(800)752-7502
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 2:19 PM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, Tom, that is what you have, all parts from the 3:21 are unique only to
> that critter. Sounds like a real "heartbreaker" to me.<Grin>
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, OR
> 78 GMC Royale 403
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Ted Petty <barbarapetty@windstream.net>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ok smore goodies
>> splines=31
>> 8 Bolt Cover
>> Shaft casting # 790??3
>> Jim knows his stuff
>> Ted
>> --
>> 75 Avion-----
>>
>> 75 cosworth Vega Toad
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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