| No Drive [message #131371] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 21:10  |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
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Hey guys after a nice ride yesterday i had the Beast parked in the drive under a shade tree to give it a bath today. Well i cranked her up and backed down a little put on the brakes stopped and started to pull forward and something let go. All it does now is grind. speedo works so im thinking final drive? The grinding sounds more like the LH side axle. looked at the bolts they are there. I guess i will pull the cover off tommorow to see what the damage is.
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
[Updated on: Tue, 21 June 2011 21:11] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: No Drive [message #131374 is a reply to message #131371] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 21:18  |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Broken planetaries and broken CV joints sound like that too. Hope it's just a CV joint.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: No Drive [message #131375 is a reply to message #131371] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 21:19 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thats what im hoping. Is the final drive something that is a problem with these things?
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: No Drive [message #131379 is a reply to message #131371] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 21:30 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thats what i told the wife. We were about to take our first out of state in it this weekend. Now her trust value has gotten a little weak. I told her that even a new one could give problems. Maybe i will get lucky and it will be something simple.
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: No Drive [message #131381 is a reply to message #131371] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 21:35 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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| PettyVTX wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 21:10 |
Hey guys after a nice ride yesterday i had the Beast parked in the drive under a shade tree to give it a bath today. Well i cranked her up and backed down a little put on the brakes stopped and started to pull forward and something let go. All it does now is grind. speedo works so im thinking final drive? The grinding sounds more like the LH side axle. looked at the bolts they are there. I guess i will pull the cover off tommorow to see what the damage is.
Ted
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Ted,
When you say the bolts are there -- you mean that you checked to see that the axle to final drive bolts are in place on both sides? They have been known to shear or fall out.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: No Drive [message #131382 is a reply to message #131371] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 21:38 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
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yep the bolts to the final to the axle are there. that was the first thing i checked because of the sound of it and the speedo was working.
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] No Drive [message #131386 is a reply to message #131375] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 21:48 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Ted,
I've been hanging around here for three years and IIRC this is the first
time I've ever read of a catastrophic failure of a final drive.
I have read that they begin grinding, howling, making noise.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ted Petty
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 12:20 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] No Drive
Thats what im hoping. Is the final drive something that is a problem with
these things?
Ted
--
75 Avion-----
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] No Drive [message #131397 is a reply to message #131386] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 00:55 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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this can be a final drive gear that was done by Marvin Peck.
They were having noise problems with the first batch, so they tried a
thin multiple gear set up.
Great in theory,but not good for our set up.
They have several well to do people that put in big bucks.
They ended up using our 3.55 gears as they were strong and quiet when
assembled properly.
We have a newly rebuilt Final drive assembly in Ohio that we can ship
out if you need one .
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Ted,
>
> I've been hanging around here for three years and IIRC this is the first
> time I've ever read of a catastrophic failure of a final drive.
>
> I have read that they begin grinding, howling, making noise.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ted Petty
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 12:20 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] No Drive
>
> Thats what im hoping. Is the final drive something that is a problem with
> these things?
> Ted
> --
> 75 Avion-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] No Drive [message #131398 is a reply to message #131397] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 01:06 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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We warranty ours for as long as it is in the motor home.
When your gear ratio is low, there is less load on the pinion gear and
the bearing.
The transmission will last longer and the gas mileage is not
compromised unless your distributor is jammed up or carburetor
malfunctioning
We even pay to replace the unit under warranty.
We have made few converts when they had noise or bearing failer.
We have never had a gear failer.
We have over3,000 of the 3.70/3.55 running.
.
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> this can be a final drive gear that was done by Marvin Peck.
> They were having noise problems with the first batch, so they tried a
> thin multiple gear set up.
> Great in theory,but not good for our set up.
> They have several well to do people that put in big bucks.
> They ended up using our 3.55 gears as they were strong and quiet when
> assembled properly.
> We have a newly rebuilt Final drive assembly in Ohio that we can ship
> out if you need one .
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>> Ted,
>>
>> I've been hanging around here for three years and IIRC this is the first
>> time I've ever read of a catastrophic failure of a final drive.
>>
>> I have read that they begin grinding, howling, making noise.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> USAussie - Downunder
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
>> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ted Petty
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 12:20 PM
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] No Drive
>>
>> Thats what im hoping. Is the final drive something that is a problem with
>> these things?
>> Ted
>> --
>> 75 Avion-----
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: No Drive [message #131408 is a reply to message #131371] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 06:06 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
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Jim lifetime warranty. Now thats what i call backing your product.Im about to get my coffee and head down to the shop to take a look. I hope it is nothing major. I will let yall know.By the way my transmission does have switch pitch.Were they done by this Marvin Peck?
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
[Updated on: Wed, 22 June 2011 06:08] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: No Drive [message #131410 is a reply to message #131371] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 07:14 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ok heres the scoop. cranked up this morn put the beast in gear no noises and she moved like normal forward and reverse just like normal. Now i know im not crazy and my wife has lost all faith in the beast now with it being tempramental but the speedo was working when it wasnt going anywhere that tells me its the final drive the noise was coming from the final drive and i was on a slight incline and when i put the beast in park it still rolled Thus all (Im not one to point fingers) fingers point to final drive. Its starting to rain here now so i cant pull the cover off of the final yet to see if its making metal. Whats up Im going to have to get the voodoo stick out and shake it at it.
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
[Updated on: Wed, 22 June 2011 07:17] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: No Drive [message #131415 is a reply to message #131410] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 08:34 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| PettyVTX wrote on Wed, 22 June 2011 08:14 |
Ok heres the scoop. cranked up this morn put the beast in gear no noises and she moved like normal forward and reverse just like normal. Now i know im not crazy and my wife has lost all faith in the beast now with it being tempramental but the speedo was working when it wasnt going anywhere that tells me its the final drive the noise was coming from the final drive and i was on a slight incline and when i put the beast in park it still rolled Thus all (Im not one to point fingers) fingers point to final drive. Its starting to rain here now so i cant pull the cover off of the final yet to see if its making metal. Whats up Im going to have to get the voodoo stick out and shake it at it.
Ted
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Ted,
After years of dealing with swing axles, stub axles and CV joints, the later could still be the best bet - BUT.
I have been brain straining to come up with a scenario that can appear to "heal".
There is one....
And it fits the described symptoms pretty well....
=> Please check this early on. It may be a fast fix.
If the right axle extension is loose where it fastens to the engine block, it could pull out of the spline in the differential. If there was little metal damage, it could also slide back in. When disengaged, it could make a grinding noise. This is not something I have actually experienced.
Everything else (that I recently became intimately familiar with) down there, is either good or busted.
I did have a CV joint bust up the cage once and spit balls out into the boot. Sometimes one would get back in and I could propel the car about five yards. But, that had other complications and it soon torn the boot. The noise that made was not a grind, it was the odd bang and a low rattle when the balls where loose in the boot.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: No Drive [message #131416 is a reply to message #131415] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 08:47 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ok Matt i will go look right now. I guess the right side is the weak side to these babies?
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: No Drive [message #131423 is a reply to message #131371] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 09:15 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
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Alrighty then. It looks like my RH output shaft may have partially come out of the final drive and went back in. The reason i say this is because the shaft where the seal rides next to the final is shiny and is about 1" wide from looking at the service manual the way the shaft is mounted to the block it looks as if there should be no in and out movement only up and down movement of the outer shaft. The support bearing slinger is loose and just riding on the shaft. The support is not loose or doesnt look as if it shifted in any way. By the way come to think of it i was turning right when it quit. but i did try turning the wheels when it wasnt working. Could i have hurt the output drive splines? If i need a replacement shaft will a cadillac of toranado shaft work?
Any ideas?
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
[Updated on: Wed, 22 June 2011 09:19] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: No Drive [message #131427 is a reply to message #131371] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 09:45 |
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Hmm, I'm just trying to think how that could happen those intermediate shafts are in there pretty good. Also the left hand side is the side that transmits the power, not the right. Remember we have an open diff unless you have one of JimK's LSFD's. The toro and caddy shafts are essentually the same, but their support brackets have different bolt spacing which means you cannot directly interchange them in a bolt and go operation. Have you checked the governor? Though you did mention the speedo worked. Hmmm definately let us know what you find when you get the cover off...
73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] No Drive [message #131434 is a reply to message #131412] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 10:03 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Hardy,
I hope to out live my unit, but you never know.
Got to get back to shoveling in more rice.
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:24 AM, Hardie Johnson <hardie.j@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> PettyVTX wrote on Wed, 22 June 2011 07:06
>> Jim lifetime warranty. Now thats what i call backing your product.<>
>> Ted
>
> And we all know how long those ornamentals live!
> --
> Hardie Johnson "Crashj"
> 1973 26 foot Glacier, White Thing
> Raleigh NC
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] No Drive [message #131440 is a reply to message #131423] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 10:37 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Ted,
I'm a bit confused: The shaft from the right side of the Final Drive
(FD), passing under the engine oil pan, is supported at the right end
by a bracket hung from the engine block. Where the shaft passes
through that bracket, there's a ball bearing. Are you saying that the
bearing itself is loose on the shaft, or just one of the seals from
that bearing? The bearing should restrict movement in & out of the FD
to a very small amount -- far less than would allow the shaft to
disengage.
If your shaft is shot, I've got a couple here.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Ted Petty <barbarapetty@windstream.net> wrote:
>
>
> Alrighty then. It looks like my RH output shaft may have partially come out of the final drive and went back in. The reason i say this is because the shaft where the seal rides next to the final is shiny and is about 1" wide from looking at the service manual the way the shaft is mounted to the block it looks as if there should be no in and out movement only up and down movement of the outer shaft. The support bearing slinger is loose and just riding on the shaft. The support is not loose or doesnt look as if it shifted in any way.
> Any ideas?
> Ted
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: No Drive [message #131442 is a reply to message #131371] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 10:59 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ken
Just took a better look at the support. That is where the shaft is moving enough to disengage the axle yes the axle moves back and forth in the support bearing does that mean the axle is worn out? . Im looking at the parts breakdown and dont see any retainer on the shaft at the support only the bolts that hold the flange to the fD page 1-2 of the parts manual. But that being said when i go to page 1-8 the only thing holding the shaft in is the support. Call me confused or just call me anything.
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
[Updated on: Wed, 22 June 2011 11:16] Report message to a moderator |
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