Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Possum Rescue Plan
| Possum Rescue Plan [message #131205] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 04:46  |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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I'm starting a new thread for the purpose of mapping out some kind of plan.
I'd like to confine this thread to specific steps, time-lines and resources related to getting this coach rolling down the road.
I know, confining a topic with this group is pretty unrealistic, but it's worth a try. 
- first; we need exhaust, what's the cheapest option? What about headers?
- second; who's available when? Maybe we won't have a single event but several separate visits?
If someone can say "I can be there on this day and I can give this many hours" - that will be the starting point on which others can hang their availability.
Questions and sidebars can be sent to me via PM or email- admin at oldrv dot net
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: Possum Rescue Plan [message #131221 is a reply to message #131205] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 07:08  |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Dave, Cheapest and easiest exhaust option is Leigh Harrison's. It is readily available, and you do not have to chase missing pieces. And, it is very close to the coach, (well, within 3 1/2 hours drive.) Next exhaust option would be to find a shop that could/would deal with the coach. But I think that this option would involve a tow.
I still think a group effort would be the fastest. Many of us have different skills, and raising a coach from the dead would require multiple skill sets.
Items to be addressed:
1. Exhaust system (see above)
2. Fuel Delivery
3. Brakes
Then, some method to deliver it to Marsha. Driving teams was suggested earlier. Fuel costs?
Based on what Billy Massey told me in Texas, there is enough donated cash to purchase the exhaust system and about $400 above that.
I will, as I've said before, come down for a week-end of GMC fun and bring the exhaust system with me. Some week-ends are spoken for and I cannot attend the party. I have no desire to assume control of the project.
Tom Phipps,
MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan [message #131233 is a reply to message #131221] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 08:42 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Somebody pick a weekend or three. I'm new to GMC, but not a terrible shade - tree mechanic. And I'm not scared to get my hands dirty. Pick a dog show weekend close by, and I'll drum up some more hands.
--johnny
--- On Tue, 6/21/11, Thomas Phipps <tph1pp5@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Thomas Phipps <tph1pp5@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 12:09 PM
Dave, Cheapest and easiest exhaust option is Leigh Harrison's. It is readily available, and you do not have to chase missing pieces. And, it is very close to the coach, (well, within 3 1/2 hours drive.) Next exhaust option would be to find a shop that could/would deal with the coach. But I think that this option would involve a tow.
I still think a group effort would be the fastest. Many of us have different skills, and raising a coach from the dead would require multiple skill sets.
Items to be addressed:
1. Exhaust system (see above)
2. Fuel Delivery
3. Brakes
Then, some method to deliver it to Marsha. Driving teams was suggested earlier. Fuel costs?
Based on what Billy Massey told me in Texas, there is enough donated cash to purchase the exhaust system and about $400 above that.
I will, as I've said before, come down for a week-end of GMC fun and bring the exhaust system with me. Some week-ends are spoken for and I cannot attend the party. I have no desire to assume control of the project.
Tom Phipps,
MS II
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Possum Rescue Plan [message #131240 is a reply to message #131221] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 09:46 |
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gordh1
Messages: 332
Registered: February 2011
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| tphipps wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 08:08 |
Items to be addressed:
1. Exhaust system (see above)
2. Fuel Delivery
3. Brakes
Then, some method to deliver it to Marsha. Driving teams was suggested earlier. Fuel costs?
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Last one is going to be painful by my math.
My 2 cents says tow it outright as is or...
some amount of flex tubing, hose clamps and coat hangers to get the exhaust tolerable to drive. Maybe a few sets of ear plugs.
A couple of jerry cans and some hose and clamps to get fuel to the pump. That only after a check that the pump is a pumpin', although gravity feed to a carb can be made to work 'good enough' as well.
Brakes - well, there's a big unknown - that said, front brakes on their own and some careful driving would do - a bit of disc clean-up with a grinder and if the calipers still move, fluid 'em up and hit the road.
If I recall the ultimate objective is to get the coach to Marsha's home and while it would be wonderful to dial everything in 'right' and to 'the n'th', I don't see the budget permitting this, so some less than optimal shortcuts or simply 'a tow' would to me be the solution.
Wish I was closer.
Gord 
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| Re: Possum Rescue Plan [message #131242 is a reply to message #131240] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 10:04 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Gord and others, Consider the exhaust system non-existent past the manifolds and you will have a better idea of the "patching" needed to complete the exhaust system. As the current system sits, I think that there is nothing to salvage/patch until you get about halfway down the exhaust pipe, near the rear wheels.
Yes, I believe that the electric fuel pump, currently on the coach, would function to bring fuel from a gas can to the carb. It appears to have been used for that purpose.
Brakes, if the fronts could be freed, would get the GMC home.
Subject to change, I am available for the following week-ends:
July 9-10; July 23-24; July 30-31; Aug 13-14; Aug 20-21; Sep 24-25; Oct 15-16. Some of the dates are more desirable. Pick a week-end, coordinate with Dave and "get'er done."
Remember that the coach has brand new tires and a new battery, so that portion of the project is is not a problem.
A pick-up would be nice to do some trash hauling (coach interior) and parts chasing. Mine was destroyed by an undocumented, unlicensed driver in Texas. Also, remember the coach sits in rural N.C. and parts houses may or may not be open.
I am also willing to play chase car for the coach, until it leaves VA.
Tom Phipps
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
[Updated on: Tue, 21 June 2011 10:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan [message #131261 is a reply to message #131240] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 10:42 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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does the coach still have manifolds/headers on it, or are we looking at ports in the heads? If we got a flange somewhere, couple of donuts and stiff springs to a flange on a short piece of pipe, and then hang some flex out to the side of the coach. Bailing wire is Your Friend.
If the engine runs, drive it home. If it doesn't, haul it. I got an implement trailer which will likely haul it if someone wants to pull it - it would want an F350-3500-wahtever with a Type III or IV hitch, and the rear wheels are going to be on the ramps or very close, the middles on the deck. Coach bumper will be at the hitch ball.
--johnny
--- On Tue, 6/21/11, Gord H <tze064v1000890@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gord H <tze064v1000890@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 2:46 PM
tphipps wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 08:08
> Items to be addressed:
> 1. Exhaust system (see above)
> 2. Fuel Delivery
> 3. Brakes
> Then, some method to deliver it to Marsha. Driving teams was suggested earlier. Fuel costs?
Last one is going to be painful by my math.
My 2 cents says tow it outright as is or...
some amount of flex tubing, hose clamps and coat hangers to get the exhaust tolerable to drive. Maybe a few sets of ear plugs.
A couple of jerry cans and some hose and clamps to get fuel to the pump. That only after a check that the pump is a pumpin', although gravity feed to a carb can be made to work 'good enough' as well.
Brakes - well, there's a big unknown - that said, front brakes on their own and some careful driving would do - a bit of disc clean-up with a grinder and if the calipers still move, fluid 'em up and hit the road.
If I recall the ultimate objective is to get the coach to Marsha's home and while it would be wonderful to dial everything in 'right' and to 'the n'th', I don't see the budget permitting this, so some less than optimal shortcuts or simply 'a tow' would to me be the solution.
Wish I was closer.
Gord :)
--
Scruffy 74 Canyonlands :) Use the forum - it's easy! http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=1
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Possum Rescue Plan [message #131265 is a reply to message #131240] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 10:50 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
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| Quote: |
Items to be addressed:
1. Exhaust system
|
It seems "quick and dirty" is the way to get this machine ready to roll. Tom says "Cheapest and easiest exhaust option is Leigh Harrison's." Let's commit to that and address the next issue."A couple of jerry cans and some hose and clamps to get fuel to the pump. That only after a check that the pump is a pumpin', although gravity feed to a carb can be made to work 'good enough' as well."
I say GRAVITY FEED to remove the pump as a potential future failure point even if it works now. Make it so."front brakes on their own and some careful driving would do - a bit of disc clean-up with a grinder and if the calipers still move, fluid 'em up and hit the road."
I disagree. Yes, it would be good if the front brakes work, but if only the fronts work it will fishtail like a semi on ice on even a damp surface. It seems to me it woulld be much more stable with rears, even if it has ONLY the rears. Just my $.02, but I say if the lines to the rear are sound, replace the cylinders with larger diameter ones, adjust them, put the drums back on and bleed them. Make it so.| Quote: |
Then, some method to deliver it to Marsha. Driving teams was suggested earlier. Fuel costs?
|
Marsha was prepared to drive it home when she bought it, maybe we just need to shuttle Marsha to the coach, give her what's left of the donation cash for gas money, get her rolling and monitor her by cell phone.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan [message #131274 is a reply to message #131265] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 11:28 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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"Fishtailing" is primarily caused by the REAR
brakes locking up and skidding the rear tires.
Sliding friction is less than than non-sliding.
The fishtailing by the "big rigs" is caused by
the loss of traction on the rear tires.
Having brought The Money Pit 500 miles home
with redone front brakes and rear brakes that
were virtually worthless, I simply tried to
drive VERY carefully and try to anticipate
possible problems. I would NEVER have done it
with rears only!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~~ ~ ~ (TZE166V101966) ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----------------------------------------
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: markbb1@netzero.com
> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:50:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan
>
> Quote:
> >
> > Items to be addressed:
> >
> > 1. Exhaust system
>
> It seems "quick and dirty" is the way to get this machine ready to roll. Tom says "Cheapest and easiest exhaust option is Leigh Harrison's." Let's commit to that and address the next issue.Quote:
> >
> > 2. Fuel Delivery
>
> "A couple of jerry cans and some hose and clamps to get fuel to the pump. That only after a check that the pump is a pumpin', although gravity feed to a carb can be made to work 'good enough' as well."
>
> I say GRAVITY FEED to remove the pump as a potential future failure point even if it works now. Make it so.Quote:
> >
> > 3. Brakes
>
> "front brakes on their own and some careful driving would do - a bit of disc clean-up with a grinder and if the calipers still move, fluid 'em up and hit the road."
>
> I disagree. Yes, it would be good if the front brakes work, but if only the fronts work it will fishtail like a semi on ice on even a damp surface. It seems to me it woulld be much more stable with rears, even if it has ONLY the rears. Just my $.02, but I say if the lines to the rear are sound, replace the cylinders with larger diameter ones, adjust them, put the drums back on and bleed them. Make it so.Quote:
> >
> > Then, some method to deliver it to Marsha. Driving teams was suggested earlier. Fuel costs?
> Marsha was prepared to drive it home when she bought it, maybe we just need to shuttle Marsha to the coach, give her what's left of the donation cash for gas money, get her rolling and monitor her by cell phone.
> --
> '73 23' CanyonLands
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan [message #131334 is a reply to message #131274] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 18:04 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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| k2gkk wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 11:28 |
"Fishtailing" is primarily caused by the REAR brakes locking up and skidding the rear tires. Sliding friction is less than than non-sliding. The fishtailing by the "big rigs" is caused by the loss of traction on the rear tires.
Having brought The Money Pit 500 miles home with redone front brakes and rear brakes that were virtually worthless, I simply tried to drive VERY carefully and try to anticipate possible problems. I would NEVER have done it with rears only!
|
True that the big rigs fishtailing is caused by the front braking being more effective than the rears due to the rears losing traction. Fishtailing is ultimately due to the front wheels stopping and the rear wheels continuing to move. It is true that, IF THE FRONT WHEELS ARE BRAKING, AND THE REAR WHEELS LOCK UP WHILE THE FRONT WHEELS CONTINUE TO TURN, it can fishtail. Remove the front braking, rewrite the physics.
When the rear wheels lock up due to braking and the front wheels are not braking, the friction of the skidding rear wheels is greater than the drag of the free rolling front wheels. It won't fishtail. Front wheels still have some pull in front wheel drive vehicles. But that doesn't change the equation unless the engine is doing much more than idling, in which case it might drag the rear wheels. But that's not fishtailing.
In the very early years of automobile manufacturing, only the rear wheels had brakes due to the above.
On your basic front engine automobile, the brakes are designed to do more stopping with the front than the rear because the front is generally where the weight is. On a GMC the weight is generally greater in the back (that's why there are 4 wheels back there and only two up front).
Case 1. I was riding with my brother one time and it was drizzling rain. There was a car disabled on the side of the road and he hit the brakes to slow down. That was when he learned that he only had brakes on the front wheels. The front wheels skidded and the rear came around and scraped the side of the car on the side of the road. It could have happened on dry pavement if he hit the brakes hard enough.
Case 2. Ride your bicycle with hand brakes. Get up a good speed. Grip the front brake handle real hard. Your butt goes over your head. A form of fishtailing.
Case 3. My uncle was a truck driver. He said it was much better if the trailer stopped the tractor than the other way around.
If I have to choose between front brakes only or rear brakes only, I will choose rear every time.
You can decide otherwise based on your view of the universe. As can Marsha and/or the team working on her motorhome.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan [message #131340 is a reply to message #131324] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 19:01 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I side with ya. Is there any chance we might get a picture of what's under the thing?
--johnny
--- On Tue, 6/21/11, Gord H <tze064v1000890@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gord H <tze064v1000890@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 8:45 PM
k2gkk wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 12:28
> It seems "quick and dirty" is the way to get this machine ready to roll. Tom says "Cheapest and easiest exhaust option is Leigh Harrison's." Let's commit to that and address the next issue.
I think first order might be to get Marsha in and 'managing' us. It is afterall, her motorhome, right?
I won't go against the majority or Marsha's ultimate decision although I'll say if there's something left on the manifolds to hang some flex pipe to, and run the pipes back and out the sides, it has to be easier and less expensive than the albeit bargain system available. We're not going to get very far with the remaining balance best as I see.
Opinions / comments / curses, of course welcome.
Gord :)
--
Scruffy 74 Canyonlands :) Use the forum - it's easy! http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=1
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan [message #131347 is a reply to message #131340] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 19:26 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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| Johnny Bridges wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 19:01 |
Is there any chance we might get a picture of what's under the thing?
|
There's a very good chance. Tell me exactly what you want to see.
Dave
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan [message #131349 is a reply to message #131340] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 19:39 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Manifolds are intact. There might be stubs left attached. I did put a reflex gasket on one side. We had broken stud to deal with. The rest of the exhaust system is not there, as I removed prior to installing the new one. This was the stopping point. We do have the proper bolts with springs.
Tom Phipps
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan [message #131395 is a reply to message #131324] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 21:54 |
jade
Messages: 163
Registered: August 2009
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I have a 3 inch exhaust system (no rust) that I built for my 23' that I will
donate free.
I ran it down the right side under the frame, so you should be able to do
the same.
I replaced it with headers and complete system from Jim K.
It's complete from the exhaust pipes back including the mufflers (2 NAPA).
What engine does it have? I have exhaust manifolds (cracked but sound) for a
455.
I'm in AZ., so don't know what the cost would be to ship it.
I would be willing to break it down and get it to a shipping company
like UPS or what ever.
Let me know.
JADE
73 23'??
73 26' Painted Desert
Ajo, AZ.
KC7QGC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gord H" <tze064v1000890@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan
>
>
> k2gkk wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 12:28
>> It seems "quick and dirty" is the way to get this machine ready to roll.
>> Tom says "Cheapest and easiest exhaust option is Leigh Harrison's." Let's
>> commit to that and address the next issue.
>
>
> I think first order might be to get Marsha in and 'managing' us. It is
> afterall, her motorhome, right?
>
> I won't go against the majority or Marsha's ultimate decision although
> I'll say if there's something left on the manifolds to hang some flex pipe
> to, and run the pipes back and out the sides, it has to be easier and less
> expensive than the albeit bargain system available. We're not going to get
> very far with the remaining balance best as I see.
>
> Opinions / comments / curses, of course welcome.
>
> Gord :)
>
> --
> Scruffy 74 Canyonlands :) Use the forum - it's easy!
> http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=1
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan [message #131401 is a reply to message #131395] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 01:39 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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| jade wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 21:54 |
I have a 3 inch exhaust system (no rust) that I built for my 23' that I will
donate free.
|
Sounds like a no-brainer. Can you box it up and give us dimensions and weight?
Address is:
Dave Silva
119 Kemp Lane
Hertford, NC
27944
What's the precess for acessing the fund to provide shipping?
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
[Updated on: Wed, 22 June 2011 01:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan [message #131403 is a reply to message #131324] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 02:38 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| gordh1 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 15:45 |
| k2gkk wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 12:28 |
It seems "quick and dirty" is the way to get this machine ready to roll. Tom says "Cheapest and easiest exhaust option is Leigh Harrison's." Let's commit to that and address the next issue.
|
I think first order might be to get Marsha in and 'managing' us. It is afterall, her motorhome, right?
I won't go against the majority or Marsha's ultimate decision although I'll say if there's something left on the manifolds to hang some flex pipe to, and run the pipes back and out the sides, it has to be easier and less expensive than the albeit bargain system available. We're not going to get very far with the remaining balance best as I see.
Opinions / comments / curses, of course welcome.
Gord
|
Please do not think of running it without a muffler or mufflers.
You can not believe how loud this coach is without mufflers.
When I converted mine to a single rear muffler, I installed straight pipes to replace the mufflers up front first. Since was reusing the rest of the system to the rear it was already installed. I started it up and it was loud. I had Laurie drive it down the taxiway and back I could hear the coach a mile away. I was unbelievably LOUD. I cut the rear 3" pipe and installed a single Flowmaster muffler. That quieted it down to acceptable levels. 20 to 25 feet of straight pipe just wasn't acceptable in quieting the exhaust to anywhere near acceptable levels.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan [message #131409 is a reply to message #131347] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 06:46 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Everything under there?? :):)
Actually, what still exists of the exhaust coming off the manifolds and going back under the coach. If it's gone, a picture of the ends of the manifolds - the idea being, what has to be connected to. i.e. if there are useable stubs, some flex pipe, clamps, and (homemade probably) hangars would get it at least safe to run, if noisy. OTOH, if there's only the manifold ends, then there is a need for flanged pipe and gaskets - and p'raps a bit of time taking broken bols out or fabricating something to clamp up to the opening. If there's the side of the cylinder head with ports in, then manifolds or headers are required, along with gaskets and perhaps a means of getting everything fitted.
For serious, if you've a digital camera, spend a half hour or so burning bytes on the thing. Looking down through the hatch in the cockpit, in through the front hatches, and underneath. The more information available, the fewer surprises the people working are going to have.
--johnny
--- On Wed, 6/22/11, dave silva <admin@oldrv.net> wrote:
From: dave silva <admin@oldrv.net>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Possum Rescue Plan
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 12:26 AM
Johnny Bridges wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 19:01
> Is there any chance we might get a picture of what's under the thing?
There's a very good chance. Tell me exactly what you want to see.
Dave
--
Dave & Ellen Silva
Check out the website:
http://www.oldrv.net
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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