Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block
| [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #129844] |
Sun, 12 June 2011 14:46  |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I have purchased a new PD9260C converter and a blue sea blade fuse
block with neg bus. I am a novice at electrical wiring. I have a 1976
Palm beach and have removed the old converter some time ago. I have
the converter with the power plug which I know plugs into an outlet.
The I would connect a positive wire from the converter to the positive
terminal on the fuse block. Do I wire the neg. to a ground or to the
neg bus on the fuse block, and then run another wire from the neg bus
to the frame? A little confused on the entire project. Then the new
fuse block has all the terminals to connect the different devices
called positive feeds, and negative returns at the top of the block?
If there is a way to explain it in lame terms for me it would help me
a great deal. So please anyone with the knowledge it would be
appreciated. Thank you again.
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #129873 is a reply to message #129844] |
Sun, 12 June 2011 17:13  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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John,
I too am electrically challenged! ;-)
Avion's have a 40 amp fuse on the line to the rear house batteries from the
buzz box. I did not replace it when I installed the PD9260 and I find that
fuse keeps blowing. I came to the conclusion that you can't run a 60 amp
charger through 40 amp fuse so I bought a 60 amp circuit breaker.
Go to eBay and put 220781025376 in the search box; this auction is selling
one for $29.95 and free postage.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of john arbuckle
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 5:47 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block
I have purchased a new PD9260C converter and a blue sea blade fuse
block with neg bus. I am a novice at electrical wiring. I have a 1976
Palm beach and have removed the old converter some time ago. I have
the converter with the power plug which I know plugs into an outlet.
The I would connect a positive wire from the converter to the positive
terminal on the fuse block. Do I wire the neg. to a ground or to the
neg bus on the fuse block, and then run another wire from the neg bus
to the frame? A little confused on the entire project. Then the new
fuse block has all the terminals to connect the different devices
called positive feeds, and negative returns at the top of the block?
If there is a way to explain it in lame terms for me it would help me
a great deal. So please anyone with the knowledge it would be
appreciated. Thank you again.
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #129878 is a reply to message #129844] |
Sun, 12 June 2011 17:31 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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The instructions that I got with my converter were somewhat confusing, but you generally have the right idea.
You connect the positive terminal from the converter to the fuse box positive, and the negative to the negative ground bus. You should also run a ground wire to the aluminum frame of the body, and mine also had a seperate ground wire that runs fron the converter frame to the aluminum framework of the coach.
If anyone has any other thoughts, please let me know as well. My converter seems to be working fine and charging up the batteries, so I assume I hooked it up correctly.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #129882 is a reply to message #129844] |
Sun, 12 June 2011 17:49 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| john arbuckle wrote on Sun, 12 June 2011 15:46 |
I have purchased a new PD9260C converter and a blue sea blade fuse block with neg bus. I am a novice at electrical wiring. I have a 1976 Palm beach and have removed the old converter some time ago. I have the converter with the power plug which I know plugs into an outlet.
Then, I would connect a positive wire from the converter to the positive terminal on the fuse block. Do I wire the neg. to a ground or to the neg bus on the fuse block, and then run another wire from the neg bus to the frame? A little confused on the entire project. Then the new fuse block has all the terminals to connect the different devices called positive feeds, and negative returns at the top of the block?
If there is a way to explain it in lame terms for me it would help me a great deal. So please anyone with the knowledge it would be appreciated. Thank you again.
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
|
John,
It sounds like you have the plan - go for it.
Now, I will try to really help.
You need to find two large wires that are from the house bank. One may come from the house bank - a positive, and the other may be an independent conductor or an attachment to the local vehicle frame - a negative. These had to be there to support the original converter, but may be way too small for the new one. If there is an independent cable from the house bank negative, would still be wise to confirm that this is also a vehicle ground as it may not be. It still is probably undersize. If it is not a vehicle ground, then add one while you are putting in new wire. It probably runs to the terminal on the APU base plate.
Short description:
You need two sizable conductors for both positive and negative (that is 4 total - min) from the battery to both the fuse block and the converter.
It does not matter if you go to the fuse block or the converter terminals first - do what is easiest - or which ever has the best terminals for all this wire.
I would include the negative buss of the new fuse block. When you go to add another 12V device, it may be much easier to pull the pair of wires back to the fuse block than to try to locate a good ground at the device. (And, it makes trouble shooting a bag easier.)
For the 60amp converter, this wire needs to be at least 8AWG (6 wouldn’t be bad). 10AWG is much more available and easier to work. Fortunately, doubling a conductor gets you three wire gages. (10AWG*2 = 7AWG) If you do double up, you still have to be very sure that your end terminals are good and solid.
If I did not answer all your questions, try again. (I bet I missed something and Ken B is out flying parts around.)
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #129884 is a reply to message #129882] |
Sun, 12 June 2011 18:05 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| mcolie wrote on Sun, 12 June 2011 15:49 |
| john arbuckle wrote on Sun, 12 June 2011 15:46 |
I have purchased a new PD9260C converter and a blue sea blade fuse block with neg bus. I am a novice at electrical wiring. I have a 1976 Palm beach and have removed the old converter some time ago. I have the converter with the power plug which I know plugs into an outlet.
Then, I would connect a positive wire from the converter to the positive terminal on the fuse block. Do I wire the neg. to a ground or to the neg bus on the fuse block, and then run another wire from the neg bus to the frame? A little confused on the entire project. Then the new fuse block has all the terminals to connect the different devices called positive feeds, and negative returns at the top of the block?
If there is a way to explain it in lame terms for me it would help me a great deal. So please anyone with the knowledge it would be appreciated. Thank you again.
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
|
John,
It sounds like you have the plan - go for it.
Now, I will try to really help.
You need to find two large wires that are from the house bank. One may come from the house bank - a positive, and the other may be an independent conductor or an attachment to the local vehicle frame - a negative. These had to be there to support the original converter, but may be way too small for the new one. If there is an independent cable from the house bank negative, would still be wise to confirm that this is also a vehicle ground as it may not be. It still is probably undersize. If it is not a vehicle ground, then add one while you are putting in new wire. It probably runs to the terminal on the APU base plate.
Short description:
You need two sizable conductors for both positive and negative (that is 4 total - min) from the battery to both the fuse block and the converter.
It does not matter if you go to the fuse block or the converter terminals first - do what is easiest - or which ever has the best terminals for all this wire.
I would include the negative buss of the new fuse block. When you go to add another 12V device, it may be much easier to pull the pair of wires back to the fuse block than to try to locate a good ground at the device. (And, it makes trouble shooting a bag easier.)
For the 60amp converter, this wire needs to be at least 8AWG (6 wouldn’t be bad). 10AWG is much more available and easier to work. Fortunately, doubling a conductor gets you three wire gages. (10AWG*2 = 7AWG) If you do double up, you still have to be very sure that your end terminals are good and solid.
If I did not answer all your questions, try again. (I bet I missed something and Ken B is out flying parts around.)
Matt
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In addition, on your '76 PB there is a very large cable from the front to the back of the rig used in the Boost wiring. It has a hidden junction block where the original wire from the buzz box and connection to the fuse block was made. See these photos for where it is located and how to get at it. If you look very carefully at the photos you may see the relatively small black #10 wire that GMC used to run to the buzz box and fuse block. That is the one Matt suggests you double up or replace altogether.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3916
You can run your larger (new) wire from there to the new converter/charger and also on to the fuse block, as Matt says. That will take care of the positive side. For the negative side, you need the same (larger) size wire to go to ground, generally one of the ribs on the chasis, although it would be even better to take it all the way back to the negative side of the coach battery in the rear of the generator. The original negative (grounded) wire on my 76 PB was bolted to the rib right behind the electrical cabinet and is quite difficult to get at to replace with a larger one.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #129965 is a reply to message #129882] |
Sun, 12 June 2011 23:48 |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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ok that part seems solid. Now as I connect all the devices the the
fuse connections, do I nned to run neg wires o the top of the fuse
box?
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> john arbuckle wrote on Sun, 12 June 2011 15:46
>> I have purchased a new PD9260C converter and a blue sea blade fuse block with neg bus. I am a novice at electrical wiring. I have a 1976 Palm beach and have removed the old converter some time ago. I have the converter with the power plug which I know plugs into an outlet.
>> Then, I would connect a positive wire from the converter to the positive terminal on the fuse block. Do I wire the neg. to a ground or to the neg bus on the fuse block, and then run another wire from the neg bus to the frame? A little confused on the entire project. Then the new fuse block has all the terminals to connect the different devices called positive feeds, and negative returns at the top of the block?
>> If there is a way to explain it in lame terms for me it would help me a great deal. So please anyone with the knowledge it would be appreciated. Thank you again.
>>
>> John Arbuckle
>> 1976 Palm Beach
>
> John,
>
> It sounds like you have the plan - go for it.
>
> Now, I will try to really help.
>
> You need to find two large wires that are from the house bank. One may come from the house bank - a positive, and the other may be an independent conductor or an attachment to the local vehicle frame - a negative. These had to be there to support the original converter, but may be way too small for the new one. If there is an independent cable from the house bank negative, would still be wise to confirm that this is also a vehicle ground as it may not be. It still is probably undersize. If it is not a vehicle ground, then add one while you are putting in new wire. It probably runs to the terminal on the APU base plate.
>
> Short description:
> You need two sizable conductors for both positive and negative (that is 4 total - min) from the battery to both the fuse block and the converter.
> It does not matter if you go to the fuse block or the converter terminals first - do what is easiest - or which ever has the best terminals for all this wire.
>
> I would include the negative buss of the new fuse block. When you go to add another 12V device, it may be much easier to pull the pair of wires back to the fuse block than to try to locate a good ground at the device. (And, it makes trouble shooting a bag easier.)
>
> For the 60amp converter, this wire needs to be at least 8AWG (6 wouldn’t be bad). 10AWG is much more available and easier to work. Fortunately, doubling a conductor gets you three wire gages. (10AWG*2 = 7AWG) If you do double up, you still have to be very sure that your end terminals are good and solid.
>
> If I did not answer all your questions, try again. (I bet I missed something and Ken B is out flying parts around.)
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #129975 is a reply to message #129965] |
Mon, 13 June 2011 02:12 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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There is absolutely no need to run anything to the fuse box on the negative side. I do not even know why the negative appears there other that someones idea for convenience.
ALL NEGATIVE CONNECTIONS in the house should run DIRECT to the Aluminum BODY of the coach. The aluminum body of the coach is the master ground for ALL house systems and devices. Run all negative connections direct to the body by the shortest possible route. If you also want to connect that negative buss on your new fuse block to the body, feel free to do it. I do not know what loads you will be connecting to that buss since all of the lights, refrigerator, batteries, etc. are already hooked direct to the body.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #130010 is a reply to message #129975] |
Mon, 13 June 2011 09:20 |
Erv Troyer
Messages: 125
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lagrange, IN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Burton wrote on Mon, 13 June 2011 02:12 |
There is absolutely no need to run anything to the fuse box on the negative side. I do not even know why the negative appears there other that someones idea for convenience.
ALL NEGATIVE CONNECTIONS in the house should run DIRECT to the Aluminum BODY of the coach. The aluminum body of the coach is the master ground for ALL house systems and devices. Run all negative connections direct to the body by the shortest possible route. If you also want to connect that negative buss on your new fuse block to the body, feel free to do it. I do not know what loads you will be connecting to that buss since all of the lights, refrigerator, batteries, etc. are already hooked direct to the body.
|
One exception, Ken. When I worked for Dometic the manuals for the refrigerators required the negative wire be connected directly to the battery negative. As far as I know this is still being done by the RV OEM companies.
Dometic did this to get away from all the problems that can occur with loose ground connections when the chassis was used. Their electronics for the control system was somewhat finicky, and could fail if there was a loose ground, or stray voltages in the negative side
Erv Troyer Lagrange, IN
74 Sequoia
reo43@aol.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #130026 is a reply to message #130010] |
Mon, 13 June 2011 11:02 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Another exception exists for "ham" radio equipment.
All should have separate grounds to the negative post
of the battery in addition to being grounded to the
chassis and engine block. Additionally, virtually all
manufacturers specify that both positive AND negative
power leads be fused. This protects the radio equipment
in the event a "ground" connection is somehow lost.
An attempt to start the engine THROUGH the radio in
such a case will blow the negative fuse instead of
causing a possible meltdown of the radio.
Personally, I will connect most any high-drain device
in that fashion.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~~ ~ ~ (TZE166V101966) ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: reo43@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:20:04 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block
>
>
>
> Ken Burton wrote on Mon, 13 June 2011 02:12
> > There is absolutely no need to run anything to the fuse box on the negative side. I do not even know why the negative appears there other that someones idea for convenience.
> >
> > ALL NEGATIVE CONNECTIONS in the house should run DIRECT to the Aluminum BODY of the coach. The aluminum body of the coach is the master ground for ALL house systems and devices. Run all negative connections direct to the body by the shortest possible route. If you also want to connect that negative buss on your new fuse block to the body, feel free to do it. I do not know what loads you will be connecting to that buss since all of the lights, refrigerator, batteries, etc. are already hooked direct to the body.
>
> One exception, Ken. When I worked for Dometic the manuals for the refrigerators required the negative wire be connected directly to the battery negative. As far as I know this is still being done by the RV OEM companies.
>
> Dometic did this to get away from all the problems that can occur with loose ground connections when the chassis was used. Their electronics for the control system was somewhat finicky, and could fail if there was a loose ground, or stray voltages in the negative side
> --
> Erv Troyer Lagrange, IN
> 74 Sequoia
> reo43@aol.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #130052 is a reply to message #130010] |
Mon, 13 June 2011 14:05 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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That all depends on your definition of "Battery Negative". Since there are 3 different sources of 12 volt power for the GMC house (battery, converter, and the engine driven alternator through the isolator), where is the battery negative? I contend it is still the body of the coach. Running a device to direct battery lengthens the route to the real power source which is normally the converter or the engine driven alternator. The battery is a short term storage device and not a power source. A battery only stores power generated by something else and therefore is just another accessory. The battery negative should also be attached directly to the aluminum body just like everything else in the house 12 volt electrical system.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #130286 is a reply to message #130282] |
Wed, 15 June 2011 03:36 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| john arbuckle wrote on Wed, 15 June 2011 01:49 |
Ken you are always a great help and thank you everyone else. I will
take a look in the compartment and see what to hook were. You will
probably hear from me soon. Thanks a million
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
|
John.
I would concentrate on running the positive leads to the fuse box and ignore all of the negatives. After the positive sides are all run through the fuse box, then anything left will be negative connections. For those few negative wires you can then figure out the shortest route to ground them to the body.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #130458 is a reply to message #129878] |
Thu, 16 June 2011 16:02 |
ejuk8em
Messages: 90
Registered: July 2010
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Hi George!
What guage wire did you use to run the grounds? I have a new converter ready to install and I want to replace the original grounding wires to make sure they and/or the connections are not a problem.
Lyle
Lyle A. Rigdon, Retired Superintendent
73 Pineapple Yellow Sequioa
Pawnee, IL 62558
Pawnee Pride - Live It!
--- On Sun, 6/12/11, George Rudawsky <GeorgeRud@aol.com> wrote:
From: George Rudawsky <GeorgeRud@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sunday, June 12, 2011, 5:31 PM
The instructions that I got with my converter were somewhat confusing, but you generally have the right idea.
You connect the positive terminal from the converter to the fuse box positive, and the negative to the negative ground bus. You should also run a ground wire to the aluminum frame of the body, and mine also had a seperate ground wire that runs fron the converter frame to the aluminum framework of the coach.
If anyone has any other thoughts, please let me know as well. My converter seems to be working fine and charging up the batteries, so I assume I hooked it up correctly.
--
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] new converter and fuse block [message #130497 is a reply to message #130458] |
Thu, 16 June 2011 22:13 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Since it is only a short run to the body from the converter, anything 8 ga. or larger ought to do it. If you can not find 8 ga. run 2 #10's in parallel.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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