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| [GMCnet] Info from FMCA [message #128564] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 00:16  |
Gerald Work
Messages: 102
Registered: June 2010
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Hi all,
We are at the FMCA regional rally in Albany, OR. Today a very knowledgeable tire gave one of the more informative tire seminars I have heard for some time. When asked about the five year "rule" he traced that backwards. Seems several years ago the tire companies were finding that while RVs represented only .3% of their large tire business they accounted for nearly 25% of their warrantee issues in these sizes. They formed an industry task force to try to determine what to do. Two major findings. The vast majority of issues were on inside duals blowing out from under inflation(usually because the stem extension started leaking air at the seal) and the issues occurred mostly from six years and out (measured from date of service, not date of manufacture). They concluded the best course of action was to recommend replacement at five service years in RV use. The root cause they found was tire deterioration from lack of use and owners not tightening the stem extensions perio
dically. Same tires used on trucks that were used consistently had vastly lower rates of failure.
His conclusion was change at five years independent of tread if you drive less than 10,000 miles per year and replace based on tread wear/depth if you drive more no matter what the age. He said they found no evidence that tires deteriorate on the shelf so service age not manufacture date is the key. His facility in Junction City, OR sees nearly 2000 motor homes a year for everything from new tires, replacements for tire damage, rotations to pressure monitors. They also service an even greater number of trucks of all sizes.
The second thing of interest for our coaches was his take on the several kinds of balancing beads. From his experience they work well as long as the air in the tire is dry and they cause all kinds of issues if the air is not dry. They will only use the beads if the owner insists and then they tell them of the potential problems. Based on their experience they now charge more to mount tires with customer supplied beads than they do for conventional balancing and they no longer sell any form of balancing beads. The issue comes from airing up in places where they do not properly service the air tanks, dryers and lines. At his facility they service everything every day and have instruments to measure how dry the air is all throughout the day but he said many truck stops and service stations do not and those are the ones where water can be introduced inside the tire.
On nitrogen the answer was no, it is promoted within the industry primarily as a way to increase margins for the tire store.
Jerry Work
78 Royale rear lounge
Sent from my iPad
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| Re: [GMCnet] Info from FMCA [message #128613 is a reply to message #128564] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 09:53  |
Douglas Norton
Messages: 191
Registered: April 2008
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Thanks Jerry. I will feel more secure with a couple of my older tires. Also this gives me a case to make to my wife for driving the coach more each year.
--- On Fri, 6/3/11, Gerald Work <glwork@me.com> wrote:
From: Gerald Work <glwork@me.com>
Subject: [GMCnet] Info from FMCA
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 10:16 PM
Hi all,
We are at the FMCA regional rally in Albany, OR. Today a very knowledgeable tire gave one of the more informative tire seminars I have heard for some time. When asked about the five year "rule" he traced that backwards. Seems several years ago the tire companies were finding that while RVs represented only .3% of their large tire business they accounted for nearly 25% of their warrantee issues in these sizes. They formed an industry task force to try to determine what to do. Two major findings. The vast majority of issues were on inside duals blowing out from under inflation(usually because the stem extension started leaking air at the seal) and the issues occurred mostly from six years and out (measured from date of service, not date of manufacture). They concluded the best course of action was to recommend replacement at five service years in RV use. The root cause they found was tire deterioration from lack of use and owners not
tightening the stem extensions perio
dically. Same tires used on trucks that were used consistently had vastly lower rates of failure.
His conclusion was change at five years independent of tread if you drive less than 10,000 miles per year and replace based on tread wear/depth if you drive more no matter what the age. He said they found no evidence that tires deteriorate on the shelf so service age not manufacture date is the key. His facility in Junction City, OR sees nearly 2000 motor homes a year for everything from new tires, replacements for tire damage, rotations to pressure monitors. They also service an even greater number of trucks of all sizes.
The second thing of interest for our coaches was his take on the several kinds of balancing beads. From his experience they work well as long as the air in the tire is dry and they cause all kinds of issues if the air is not dry. They will only use the beads if the owner insists and then they tell them of the potential problems. Based on their experience they now charge more to mount tires with customer supplied beads than they do for conventional balancing and they no longer sell any form of balancing beads. The issue comes from airing up in places where they do not properly service the air tanks, dryers and lines. At his facility they service everything every day and have instruments to measure how dry the air is all throughout the day but he said many truck stops and service stations do not and those are the ones where water can be introduced inside the tire.
On nitrogen the answer was no, it is promoted within the industry primarily as a way to increase margins for the tire store.
Jerry Work
78 Royale rear lounge
Sent from my iPad
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| Re: [GMCnet] Info from FMCA [message #128688 is a reply to message #128564] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 19:18 |
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Good and solid piece of info. There are things to be learned at FMCA rallies
and conventions just as there are things to be learned at GMC rallies. We
all share many issues.
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
Gerald Work wrote:
> We are at the FMCA regional rally in Albany, OR. Today a very knowledgeable
> tire gave one of the more informative tire seminars I have heard for some
> time.
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Info from FMCA [message #128692 is a reply to message #128564] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 19:46 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Gerald Work wrote on Fri, 03 June 2011 22:16 |
... He said they found no evidence that tires deteriorate on the shelf so service age not manufacture date is the key. His facility in Junction City, OR sees nearly 2000 motor homes a year for everything from new tires, replacements for tire damage, rotations to pressure monitors. They also service an even greater number of trucks of all sizes. ...
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I agree with a lot of what he is saying. Tire age is only one of many factors in the decision to replace the tires. I truly believe that tires do deteriorate "on the shelf." Keep in mind that Oregon isn't an environment that is hard on tires. In, dry, high altitude environments it doesn't take much "idle" time for the tires to start drying out. It is even worse if the tire is in the sun. (Yes, I think tire covers could be of value... sometimes.) In these dry, high ozone places, if tires are not driven on, they could be unusable in LESS than five years.
Bottom line:
Wherever you live, to make your tires last longer... drive the coach fairly often.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Info from FMCA [message #128694 is a reply to message #128688] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 19:47 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Go to
http://www.michelinrvtires.com/michelinrv/toolbox/reference-material.jsp
and download the document
"Service Life for RV/Motorhome Tires"
The Michelin recommendation there is for annual professional
examination each year after 5, and replacement after no more
than 10 years from date of MANUFACTURE.
Frankly, I'm not sure the same rules should be applied to our "Light
Truck" tires and to "RV" tires, which are essentially heavy truck
tires and of much more robust construction.
Personally, I'll stick to 5 years for my replacement cycle.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
-> Gerald Work wrote:
>
>> We are at the FMCA regional rally in Albany, OR. Today a very knowledgeable
>> tire gave one of the more informative tire seminars I have heard for some
>> time.
-
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Info from FMCA [message #129060 is a reply to message #128694] |
Tue, 07 June 2011 08:41 |
philipswanson
Messages: 282
Registered: January 2004
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Easy for them to say to replace them every 5 years. More profit too. My opinion, is that exposure to the sun is the main replacement factor other than tread wear. If you keep it garaged, these tires should do 10 years easy. I had a set of Michelins with over 10 years kept in my garage. After I removed them, I sold them to a fleet guy who ran them on one of his trucks. Ran them till bald, no problems after 12 years+. Keep them out of the sun if you want them to last.
Phil Swanson
[Updated on: Tue, 07 June 2011 08:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Info from FMCA [message #129070 is a reply to message #129060] |
Tue, 07 June 2011 09:37 |
Andrew
Messages: 213
Registered: April 2011
Location: Connecticut
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| philipswanson wrote on Tue, 07 June 2011 08:41 |
My opinion, is that exposure to the sun is the main replacement factor other than tread wear. If you keep it garaged, these tires should do 10 years easy.
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What I've learned from the net:
Modern tires have anti-UV and anti-ozone chemicals in them. These chemicals are distributed throughout the tire. To get them to the surface where they can be useful, the tire needs to be spun, flexed, and heated. Driving works well.
Covers work to block UV, but they'd have to be airtight to block ozone. Sprays can block UV and ozone, but can also attack the tire themselves. Even cleaning the tire too much is bad, because it removes the protective compounds and can contribute to drying.
Tires that sit in one spot have all of the above problems plus physical stresses that can deform the tire permanently after several months. It will usually spin out visually and ride-wise, but the sidewall is weakened. After a few years, it might never recover. Cold ground makes it worse. So does hot ground (e.g. asphalt, which is also bad for tires on its own).
Some folks suggest storing cars on blocks, with tires inflated and spinning freely, wrapped in plastic (stretch plastic for pallet packaging), in a climate-controlled garage. That's pretty hard core, but I guess the tires will last a few years longer.
Or, drive them more. 
1973 Sequoia 260 (since 2011)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Info from FMCA [message #129182 is a reply to message #129060] |
Tue, 07 June 2011 19:47 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Phil,
Good points!
When I bought Double Trouble it had Goodyear G-159's on it. They were steel
belted radials with steel sidewalls. They were 8 years old and Double
Trouble had been sitting for 3 1/2 years and I didn't know what they had be
subjected to. I hemmed and hawed about whether to buy new tires or not. The
general consensus was that I'd probably be OK but Steve Ferguson hit the
nail on the head when he noted "They'll probably be fine but you're going to
be worried every mile you drive that they might blow" so I replaced them.
Ken Frey called one of his local buddies that ran trucks and he was there
like a shot to pickup the removed tires!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Phil Swanson
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:42 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Info from FMCA
Easy for them to say to replace them every 5 years. More profit too. My
opinion, is that expose to the sun is the main replacement factor other than
tread wear. If you keep it garaged, these tires should do 10 years easy. I
had a set of Michelins with over 10 years kept in my garage. After I
removed them, I sold them to a fleet guy who ran them on one of his trucks.
Ran them till bald, no problems after 12 years+. Keep them out of the sun
if you want them to last.
Phil Swanson
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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