Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question
| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128528] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 19:57  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
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Tom Hampton recommended Counteract balancing beads for my Firestone 16.5" Transforce tires. I was a little dubious, but they work great. No weights to fall off or loose the hub caps.
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
The Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128534 is a reply to message #128528] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 20:23  |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| ljdavick wrote on Fri, 03 June 2011 17:57 |
Tom Hampton recommended Counteract balancing beads for my Firestone 16.5" Transforce tires. I was a little dubious, but they work great. No weights to fall off or loose the hub caps.
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With my last new tires I had them put in about a 1/2 cup of Air-Soft beads. (Plastic BB's) Cheap and work good. One container will do all 6 tires. No need for fancy valve stems and the like.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128548 is a reply to message #128528] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 22:50 |
Donovan-formerly Jase386
Messages: 139
Registered: January 2009
Location: Greenville SC
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wish i had seen that post last week. new tires and weight are the reason my hubcaps are flying around like UFO's lately. The caps will be stored inside for the return trip home. and rebalancing on tuesday morning with all weights on the inside of the rim.
could someone explain more about the bb's inside the tire. and can they be pushed in without breaking the seal? like thru an open valve stem with no valve in it.
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II
81,500 miles
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128560 is a reply to message #128548] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 23:46 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Donovan,
Someone else will have to respond about the bb's but here's information on
Equal balancing powder.
http://www.imiproducts.com/equal.html
Click on Installation.
It should be noted that if you use Equal without the special filtered
Schrader valves you may run into problems when taking the tire pressure as
the powder is rather fine and it can get into the valve stems which is
probably why they supply the filtered valves with the sachets!
Here's a message I sent in awhile back:
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Mueller
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:11 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] valve stems
Jesse,
There are two different types of valve stems for the Alcoa's; one seals with
an O-ring (Series TV-54X) the second seals with a silicone rubber gasket
(Series TV-55X).
The filtered Schrader valves provided with the Equal Balancing powder WILL
NOT FIT in the TV-543. They WILL FIT in the TV-553 valve which is what I
have on my Alcoa's.
I have NO IDEA if the filtered Schrader valves will fit in any of the other
valve stems in either series or those made by any other company.
The ones I paid $3.98 for were the TV-553.
I just posted the page out of Haltec's catalog with these valve stems on the
photo site, it is a .pdf file.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=38272
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of jase386
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 1:51 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question
wish i had seen that post last week. new tires and weight are the reason
my hubcaps are flying around like UFO's lately. The caps will be stored
inside for the return trip home. and rebalancing on tuesday morning with
all weights on the inside of the rim.
could someone explain more about the bb's inside the tire. and can they be
pushed in without breaking the seal? like thru an open valve stem with no
valve in it.
--
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II (Ella)
72,500 miles
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128563 is a reply to message #128548] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 00:16 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Donovan-formerly Jase386 wrote on Fri, 03 June 2011 22:50 |
wish i had seen that post last week. new tires and weight are the reason my hubcaps are flying around like UFO's lately. The caps will be stored inside for the return trip home. and rebalancing on tuesday morning with all weights on the inside of the rim.
could someone explain more about the bb's inside the tire. and can they be pushed in without breaking the seal? like thru an open valve stem with no valve in it.
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Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128567 is a reply to message #128548] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 00:29 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Donovan,
I wish I could explain how Counteract works, but frankly I've forgotten. It was a mystery to the three of us mechanical types on the trip out from Ohio till my buddy Mark, after extensive reading of their website, explained it to us.
It's pretty clear that I never really got it, but I don't care. They work.
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
Fremont CA
On Jun 3, 2011, at 8:50 PM, jase386 <jase386@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> wish i had seen that post last week. new tires and weight are the reason my hubcaps are flying around like UFO's lately. The caps will be stored inside for the return trip home. and rebalancing on tuesday morning with all weights on the inside of the rim.
>
>
> could someone explain more about the bb's inside the tire. and can they be pushed in without breaking the seal? like thru an open valve stem with no valve in it.
> --
> Donovan, Greenville SC
> 1975 Eleganza II (Ella)
> 72,500 miles
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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GMCnet mailing list
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128569 is a reply to message #128563] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 00:51 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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There are several "Balancing Beads" out there. Counteract and Equal are the two most popular. I have Equal because I got it for free. It is more of a powder than a bead. Ken H. has Counteract and he says it is also good. A GMCer in Ohio turned me on to using AirSoft beads. So I installed them in my trailer tires. It worked fine for me.
AirSoft are the cheapest way to go. I bought a container and weighed out baggies of 4 oz for each tire. I put the beads in ziplock bags and told the tire guy to throw them inside each tire before he aired it up. Air soft beads are too large to go in through the valve stem. Equal can be injected through the stem. I do not know about Counteract.
If it were me I would go to Walmart and get one container of AirSoft beads. Then I would take my tires and wheels to the automotive department and ask them to break down the bead. You then can either hand them the beads to put in the tire or put them in yourself and air up the tire again. BTW, my local Walmart will not charge to break the bead or even remove the tire from the wheel. They only charge for mounting a tire on a wheel.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128570 is a reply to message #128548] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 01:05 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Donovan-formerly Jase386 wrote on Fri, 03 June 2011 20:50 |
... could someone explain more about the bb's inside the tire. and can they be pushed in without breaking the seal? like thru an open valve stem with no valve in it.
|
The Air-Soft pellets where like this: <http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crosman-Airsoft-Translucent-Red-Ammo-5-000ct/15103405> (But where white not red.)
The heaver type might balance a little better (or the same using fewer pellets) but cost a little more. (One container of the light stuff will do 6 tires with just under 1/2 cup per tire.) I think I'll use the Ultra-Heavy ones next time.... Better a little extra weight than to little.
You DO have to break the bead of the tire/rim to put these in. But that is no harder than re-balancing your current wheels.
I saw a video of how beads balance the tires. It has to be done with the tire running against something. (road or roller... something) Normal static or spin balancers will not force the beads to move and balance the tire. The video I saw shows you could get the same effect with 3 golf balls in each tire.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128588 is a reply to message #128567] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 07:49 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| ljdavick wrote on Sat, 04 June 2011 01:29 |
Donovan,
I wish I could explain how Counteract works, but frankly I've forgotten. It was a mystery to the three of us mechanical types on the trip out from Ohio till my buddy Mark, after extensive reading of their website, explained it to us.
It's pretty clear that I never really got it, but I don't care. They work.
Larry Davick
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Larry,
How do they work?
Pretty well, actually (cheap chuckle ends)
Care for an explanation?
The way these things work is pretty simple. But, it only works for things that do not have the rotation center controlled (like a car wheel). It will not work if the rotation center is well controlled (like an engine flywheel).
When the rotating thing is out of balance, the lighter part is actually at a larger radius as it is trying to rotate about a center that is not the true center of rotation, but closer to the center of gravity. So, the loose stuff goes down hill. This continues until there is no more down hill to go to. . . . Because the new center of gravity is very close to the center of rotation.
Short Story:
One of my genius friends (the previously mentioned late Orval Feather) was looking at this effect years ago (we should have been working on a clients program, but that is why I was in the group).
As an experiment, he took the weights off one of the front wheels of his Corvair and put in an equivalent weight of water. When driven, they wheel would almost instantly smooth out. It seemed to work well at all speeds - Except - There was a problem, when he hit a bump at the wrong speed, the car became almost uncontrollable for 50~100 yards. He surmised that because the water had no internal friction, a bump at a critical speed could instantaneously redistribute the water. I stopped him from trying the same experiment with honey.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128658 is a reply to message #128614] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 16:22 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| ljdavick wrote on Sat, 04 June 2011 10:50 |
Matt,
You said " But, it only works for things that do not have the rotation center controlled" which means that the axle can move up and down (I think.). Does this explain why this method does not appear to work on a tire balancing machine? The machine has a rigidly fixed "axle" so the beads, liquid, or whatever are never able to Hold the tire down.
Larry Davick
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Indeed, it does.
But,
this is actually machine dependent. Some machines have enough freedom in the "axle" to let the beads move and some others do not.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128708 is a reply to message #128528] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 22:36 |
Donovan-formerly Jase386
Messages: 139
Registered: January 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I think ill buy some of the air-soft beads and instead of having them rebalance my rear 4, just put half a cup in each tire.
They have gotten the front wheels very controlable. wonder if it would piss them off to take them off and add beads inside and they can have their weights back?
also running 16.5 firestone transforces with my old steel wheels. nothing is worse than fighting a vehicle with wheels out of balance. i can deal with heat, noise, cold, burning oil smell, fuel smell, but NOTHING makes a trip longer than unbalanced wheels......unless you have to pee.
Donovan, Greenville SC
1975 Eleganza II
81,500 miles
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128710 is a reply to message #128708] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 22:53 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Donovan-formerly Jase386 wrote on Sat, 04 June 2011 22:36 |
I think ill buy some of the air-soft beads and instead of having them rebalance my rear 4, just put half a cup in each tire.
They have gotten the front wheels very controlable. wonder if it would piss them off to take them off and add beads inside and they can have their weights back?
also running 16.5 firestone transforces with my old steel wheels. nothing is worse than fighting a vehicle with wheels out of balance. i can deal with heat, noise, cold, burning oil smell, fuel smell, but NOTHING makes a trip longer than unbalanced wheels......unless you have to pee.
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Do it by weight. Not quantity. I believe 4oz is the correct weight for our size tires. I do not know what will happen if you add too little or too much weight. I know the bead companies stated exactly how much weight is required for each size tire.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128726 is a reply to message #128720] |
Sun, 05 June 2011 05:03 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I thought 4 oz. was correct but I have not looked it up in several years. Thanks
[quote title=Robert Mueller wrote on Sun, 05 June 2011 01:12]Ken,
Equal says 4 oz for our 225/75-16's.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Burton
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 1:54 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question
Do it by weight. Not quantity. I believe 4oz is the correct weight for our size tires. I do not know what will happen if you add too little or too much weight. I know the bead companies stated exactly how much weight is required for each size tire.
Ken
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question [message #128738 is a reply to message #128726] |
Sun, 05 June 2011 10:17 |
gmcrv1
Messages: 839
Registered: August 2007
Location: Memphis
Karma: -1
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Ken,
All,
When I replaced the 16.5 tires on the GMC three of the tires had balancing
beads in them. They averaged 10.8 ounces per tire. The new wheels and
tires were balanced using conventional external clamp on lead weights.
Sounds like I have enough beads to put 4 ounces in each of my tires/wheels.
Yes? No? Comments,
Thanks,
Tom Eckert N2VWN
73 Glacier
Oakland, TN 38060
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 5:03 AM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I thought 4 oz. was correct but I have not looked it up in several years.
> Thanks
>
> [quote title=Robert Mueller wrote on Sun, 05 June 2011 01:12]Ken,
>
> Equal says 4 oz for our 225/75-16's.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Burton
> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 1:54 PM
> To: mailto:gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] wheel balancing weights question
>
> Do it by weight. Not quantity. I believe 4oz is the correct weight for
> our size tires. I do not know what will happen if you add too little or
> too much weight. I know the bead companies stated exactly how much weight
> is required for each size tire.
>
> Ken
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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