| APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124650] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 08:37  |
Peg
Messages: 124
Registered: April 2011
Location: Montana
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Now, does this article best describe WHY the APC?
Or is there an article specific to GMC Motorhomes someone has written? I have to find the reason WHY....and a schematic if there is one SPECIFIC to GMC Motorhomes someone may have written.
Thanks in advance.
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/an/10493.pdf
Montanan with a Dream ...
Dreams do come TRUE don't they?
Mark & Peg
South Central Montana
1974 Sequoia 722/1,496
1974 Excella 500 RT
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| Re: APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124654 is a reply to message #124650] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 08:47  |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
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| Peg wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 08:37 |
Now, does this article best describe WHY the APC?
Or is there an article specific to GMC Motorhomes someone has written? I have to find the reason WHY....and a schematic if there is one SPECIFIC to GMC Motorhomes someone may have written.
Thanks in advance.
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/an/10493.pdf
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No - the GMC MH APC by Gene is to solve a problem where a specific alternator failure mode can burn up the dash wiring harness.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124661 is a reply to message #124654] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 09:07 |
Peg
Messages: 124
Registered: April 2011
Location: Montana
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[quote title=midlf wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 08:47]| Peg wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 08:37 |
No - the GMC MH APC by Gene is to solve a problem where a specific alternator failure mode can burn up the dash wiring harness.
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Is there a link to the schematic?
Montanan with a Dream ...
Dreams do come TRUE don't they?
Mark & Peg
South Central Montana
1974 Sequoia 722/1,496
1974 Excella 500 RT
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| Re: APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124664 is a reply to message #124661] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 09:11 |
Peg
Messages: 124
Registered: April 2011
Location: Montana
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| Dennis S wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 09:07 |
No - the GMC MH APC by Gene is to solve a problem where a specific alternator failure mode can burn up the dash wiring harness.
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I found this
http://gmcmotorhomeinfo.com/APC.html I need to know "how" this works. I need a schematic if there is one.
I have read that it "stops the problem" need to know how/why...i.e. schematic. Mark won't put anything on unless he understands it.
The $20 to purchase Gene's device is a non issue...does the device come with a schematic if this isn't free info?
Montanan with a Dream ...
Dreams do come TRUE don't they?
Mark & Peg
South Central Montana
1974 Sequoia 722/1,496
1974 Excella 500 RT
[Updated on: Thu, 05 May 2011 09:23] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124674 is a reply to message #124664] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 09:59 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
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| Peg wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 09:11 |
Mark won't put anything on unless he understands it.
The $20 to purchase Gene's device is a non issue...does the device come with a schematic if this isn't free info?
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The schematic for the entire chassis can be found on bdub's site from this page:
http://www.bdub.net/wirediagrams/index.html
Please pay attention to the note at the top of the page regarding viewing the files. You will have to download it to view it.
Using the Jim bounds supplied explanation and the GMC schematic will give you a start on the details on how this works.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124676 is a reply to message #124664] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 10:14 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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Gene developed the APC as one of several different solutions to the nichrome wire burn problem. If you ever see the problem and destruction caused under the dash by this problem you will run to install this as a preventative measure.
It is nothing more than a diode, two plugs (male and female) and a couple pieces of wire.
Of the solutions developed, the APC is the simplest and quickest one to install. The idea was to get these installed on as many coaches as possible. The blocking diode goes in series with the
wire between the alternator and the "gen" light on the dash. The wire is normally used to excite the generator on start up.
Some of the other solutions developed included:
1. Removing the nichrome wire from the circuit and wiring a 10 ohm resistor external to the wiring harness. The moves the heat source out of the harness to an external location.
2. Same as above except using a 100 ohm external resistor.
3. disconnecting the start up circuit completely. This only worked on some alternators. Many would not self excite and start up at all.
4. There was another solution developed using a fuse.
I'll look around for a schematic. There were several floating around at the time Gene developed this.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
[Updated on: Thu, 05 May 2011 10:43] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124683 is a reply to message #124676] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 10:57 |
Peg
Messages: 124
Registered: April 2011
Location: Montana
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Yeah, Ken, that's what Mark says...its only a diode...
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=2524&cat=3247
"I'll look around for a schematic. There were several floating around at the time Gene developed this."
Thanks Ken!
Yes, Dennis, we have both read Gene's APC.
I have forwarded all 4 VERY HELPFUL replies to Mark.
Thanks for your information midlf, Ken, Dennis, Rick. Ghad I dislike naming names in the event I leave someone out! Thank you all...
I can tell we don't have Gene's fix when I looked at the Alt this a.m., but I don't know if its been hard wired (permanent). This info is greatly appreciated. I have found documentation on the permanent fix.. http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3247 and Gene's fix (which sure looks the easiest route to me)... I would do that, but we'll see.
I know most of you have answered these questions before. I appreciate the patience with the repeated answers to so many of us NEW to GMC motorhome questions.
Montanan with a Dream ...
Dreams do come TRUE don't they?
Mark & Peg
South Central Montana
1974 Sequoia 722/1,496
1974 Excella 500 RT
[Updated on: Thu, 05 May 2011 11:27] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124686 is a reply to message #124676] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 11:06 |
Dave Mumert
Messages: 272
Registered: February 2004
Location: Olds, AB, Canada
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Hi all
Here is the photo gallery that shows various alternatives for solving the
burnt nichrome wire.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3254
Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION
>
> Gene developed the APC as one of several different solutions to the
> nichrome wire burn problem. If you ever see the problem and destruction
> caused under the dash by this problem you will run to install this as a
> preventative measure.
>
> It is nothing more than a diode, two plugs (male and female) and a couple
> pieces of wire.
>
> Of the solutions developed, the APC is the simplest and quickest one to
> install. The idea was to get these installed on as many coaches as
possible.
> The blocking diode goes in series with the
> wire between the alternator and the "gen" light on the dash. The wire is
> normally used to excite the generator on start up.
>
> Some of the other solutions developed included:
> 1. Removing the nichrome wire from the circuit and wiring a 10 ohm
resistor
> external to the wiring harness. The moves the heat source out of the
> harness to an external location.
> 2. Same as above except using a 100 ohm external resistor.
> 3. disconnecting the start up circuit completely. This only worked on
some
> alternators. Many would not self excite and start up at all.
>
> I'll look around for a schematic. There were several floating around at
the
> time Gene developed this.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
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| Re: [GMCnet] APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124688 is a reply to message #124686] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 11:21 |
Peg
Messages: 124
Registered: April 2011
Location: Montana
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Dave
We have a 1974 Dave, thanks...
your link was for 10 Ohm Alternator Wire 77/78 MODELS (Modifications) ...(nichrome wire)...
Ken was checking for Mark on a diagram of Gene's solution, I believe. I don't know if a "permanent" fix was installed on our Motorhome...Mark will need to check that. Too in depth for me. BUT if the permanent solution hasn't been done, Gene's would be the least labor intensive solution. Has my vote.
Montanan with a Dream ...
Dreams do come TRUE don't they?
Mark & Peg
South Central Montana
1974 Sequoia 722/1,496
1974 Excella 500 RT
[Updated on: Thu, 05 May 2011 11:39] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124692 is a reply to message #124690] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 11:46 |
Peg
Messages: 124
Registered: April 2011
Location: Montana
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Thanks, Dave.
| Dave Mumert wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 11:35 |
Three different solutions are shown. All are applicable to all years. The
'77-78 models had an additional diode in the wiring harness that solved a
problem with the ALT lamp glowing dimly when it shouldn't. The APC solves
that problem as well as protecting the nichrome wire.
Here is the schematic for the APC solution. There is also a schematic using
a fuse and one using an external 10 ohm resistor.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=3731&cat=3254
Dave
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Montanan with a Dream ...
Dreams do come TRUE don't they?
Mark & Peg
South Central Montana
1974 Sequoia 722/1,496
1974 Excella 500 RT
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| Re: [GMCnet] APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124744 is a reply to message #124694] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 19:32 |
 |
mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| KRDietz wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 09:45 |
On 5/5/2011 9:21 AM, Peg wrote:
> Dave Mumert wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 11:06
>> Here is the photo gallery that shows various alternatives
>> for solving the burnt nichrome wire.
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3254
> We have a 1974 Dave, thanks...
> your link was for 10 Ohm Alternator Wire 77/78 MODELS (Modifications)
>
> Ken was checking for a diagram of Gene's solution for Mark,
> I believe. I don't know if a "permanent" fix was installed
> on our Motorhome...Mark will need to check that. Too in
> depth for me. BUT if the permanent solution hasn't been done,
> Gene's would be the least labor intensive solution. Has my
> vote.
The Diode/Resistor fix done on a '73.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3247
The APC is much easier. It didn't exist when Gene and others guided me thru this modification.
|
While the APC IS much easier, There is something to be said for removing the nichrome wire (aka: TOASTER HEATING ELEMENT -- What where they thinking?? !!) from the wiring harness.
I ought to look into this....
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124745 is a reply to message #124744] |
Thu, 05 May 2011 19:55 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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>
>
> While the APC IS much easier, There is something to be said for removing
> the nichrome wire (aka: TOASTER HEATING ELEMENT -- What where they
> thinking?? !!) from the wiring harness.
>
I looked into this, it is a great design, do not change the OEM system....
http://goo.gl/69Jgz
the nichrome wire will not even get warm at 60 volts (over 4 times any
voltage in the alternator circuit).
nothing can get hurt --- until the alternator goes berserk, and goes over
100 volts..... ( blows up batteries at this voltage).
so what happens is this 100 volts goes backwards from the berserk-er
alternator and heats up the nichrome wire---- Major failure, and only
because the voltage goes backwards....
so what the APC does, is simply block this (reverse) voltage .
alternator still gets, starting current, works normally, and all is
sweetness and light;>).
(if you want to run a test, easy to unplug.)
> I ought to look into this....
> --
>
save your self some time and just read the info,
there are over 1000 of the APC cables in operation ( I am off to build 20
more ;>)
you can buy them from JimK, Cinnabar,or me....
gene
> Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
> '73 26' exPainted D. -- `78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- `77 23' Birchaven
> Side Bath
> http://m000035.blogspot.com
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] APC - ALTERNATOR LOAD DUMP PROTECTION [message #124843 is a reply to message #124786] |
Fri, 06 May 2011 12:53 |
Dwayne
Messages: 418
Registered: October 2007
Location: White Rock BC
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Hi Ken;
can you recommend someone in the north Chicago area that could install one
of this links plus a brake booster.
'I am flying out in the first week of June to pick up the coach and drive it
home. Would like these added prior to.
Dwayne Jacobson
White Rock
BC
77 Eleganza II
77 Kingsley
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:27 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> And also thanks from me. Now I do not have to find the diagram.
>
> Ken B.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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77 Eleganza II
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