Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Generator No Gas
| [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123107] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 11:40  |
Arthur Mansfield
Messages: 290
Registered: April 2010
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Getting ready to go to Bean Station. Need the generator going since the engine AC is does not really work.
I tried to start the generator and it would not start. I filled up since it was getting low on gas. It will start on prime. I took off the fuel line to carb. No gas came out when I turned it over. I checked the oil level and it is full. What is in the line that has wires going to it. It ran about two months ago.
Thanks
Art & Doris
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123110 is a reply to message #123107] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 12:38  |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Arthur Mansfield wrote on Mon, 25 April 2011 09:40 |
... I tried to start the generator and it would not start. I filled up since it was getting low on gas. It will start on prime. I took off the fuel line to carb. No gas came out when I turned it over. I checked the oil level and it is full. What is in the line that has wires going to it. It ran about two months ago.
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I assume that the question: "What is in the line that has wires going to it." is asking about the fuel shut off solenoid.
While many say it isn't needed in our application it is part of the emissions vent system. It is there to prevent pressure in the tank from pushing fuel past the Onan float valve and making a fuel spill. It would require many things to go wrong for this to happen, that is why many feel you do not need it.
If it still works, leave it in the system. If it doesn't, take it out.
Now to the Onan.
If it "starts on prime" the pump and solenoid are fine. "Prime" is pretty much the same as jumping the control board. There are an Onan troubleshooting instructions on one of the sites... I do have time to look for it right now...
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123115 is a reply to message #123107] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 13:22 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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| Arthur Mansfield wrote on Mon, 25 April 2011 11:40 |
Getting ready to go to Bean Station. Need the generator going since the engine AC is does not really work.
I tried to start the generator and it would not start. I filled up since it was getting low on gas. It will start on prime. I took off the fuel line to carb. No gas came out when I turned it over. I checked the oil level and it is full. What is in the line that has wires going to it. It ran about two months ago.
Thanks
Art & Doris
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Art,
Here are the troubleshooting tips from Duane.
http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/onan/onan.html#trouble-shooting
I would try jumping terminals 5 and 9 on the control board -- and listen for the fuel pump. If it is ticking then try the start button. The prime button is essentialy doing a temporary jump. It may not continue to run without the jumper in place. If so, and you are sure it is not low on oil, leave the jumper in place and run it. But I would remove the jumper whenever I shut off the Onan.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123123 is a reply to message #123107] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 14:39 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Mine wouldn't start last spring, turned out to be a hardened fuel line that was
loose and allowing it to suck air. I put on a new line and it fired right up.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: "amansfield1104@charter.net" <1104agm@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 11:40:13 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas
Getting ready to go to Bean Station. Need the generator going since the engine
AC is does not really work.
I tried to start the generator and it would not start. I filled up since it was
getting low on gas. It will start on prime. I took off the fuel line to carb.
No gas came out when I turned it over. I checked the oil level and it is full.
What is in the line that has wires going to it. It ran about two months ago.
Thanks
Art & Doris
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123148 is a reply to message #123146] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 17:56 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Take the bottom off of the pump. There is a screen on the inlet side that is
more than likely plugged or varnished up. They are a simple device. If the
pump motor? runs but it does not pump fuel, then it is one of the valves.
Cummins/Onan used to have a rebuild kit for the pumps, but you can probably
replace the whole pump with a facet electric one cheaper than the kit from
Cummins.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Arthur Mansfield <1104agm@gmail.com> wrote:
> I checked the fuel line with a hand vacuum pump and get gas through the
> line. I have the fueling off. I jumped the 5 to 9 and the pump runs but no
> gas comes out.
>
> I spray starting fluid into the carb and it starts but no gas comes out of
> the fuel pump.
>
> I then jumped both shut off and the pump by disconnecting then and power
> both. Pump ran but no gas out of the pump.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Art & Doris 76 EL
> On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Dennis Sexton wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Arthur Mansfield wrote on Mon, 25 April 2011 11:40
> >> Getting ready to go to Bean Station. Need the generator going since the
> engine AC is does not really work.
> >>
> >> I tried to start the generator and it would not start. I filled up
> since it was getting low on gas. It will start on prime. I took off the
> fuel line to carb. No gas came out when I turned it over. I checked the
> oil level and it is full. What is in the line that has wires going to it.
> It ran about two months ago.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Art & Doris
> >
> >
> > Art,
> >
> > Here are the troubleshooting tips from Duane.
> > http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/onan/onan.html#trouble-shooting
> >
> > I would try jumping terminals 5 and 9 on the control board -- and listen
> for the fuel pump. If it is ticking then try the start button. The prime
> button is essentialy doing a temporary jump. It may not continue to run
> without the jumper in place. If so, and you are sure it is not low on oil,
> leave the jumper in place and run it. But I would remove the jumper whenever
> I shut off the Onan.
> >
> > Dennis
> > --
> > Dennis S
> > 73 Painted Desert 230
> > Germantown, TN
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123150 is a reply to message #123148] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 18:10 |
Arthur Mansfield
Messages: 290
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Two questions
Would the pump off of a 4k Onan generator work. I have a 4k that was given to me. I have never run it but it ran when they took it out of an RV.
What pressure would I need. I assume it would be a 1 to 2 psi pump
Art & Doris
76 EL
On Apr 25, 2011, at 5:56 PM, James Hupy wrote:
> Take the bottom off of the pump. There is a screen on the inlet side that is
> more than likely plugged or varnished up. They are a simple device. If the
> pump motor? runs but it does not pump fuel, then it is one of the valves.
> Cummins/Onan used to have a rebuild kit for the pumps, but you can probably
> replace the whole pump with a facet electric one cheaper than the kit from
> Cummins.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, OR
> 78 GMC Royale 403
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Arthur Mansfield <1104agm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I checked the fuel line with a hand vacuum pump and get gas through the
>> line. I have the fueling off. I jumped the 5 to 9 and the pump runs but no
>> gas comes out.
>>
>> I spray starting fluid into the carb and it starts but no gas comes out of
>> the fuel pump.
>>
>> I then jumped both shut off and the pump by disconnecting then and power
>> both. Pump ran but no gas out of the pump.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Art & Doris 76 EL
>> On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Dennis Sexton wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Arthur Mansfield wrote on Mon, 25 April 2011 11:40
>>>> Getting ready to go to Bean Station. Need the generator going since the
>> engine AC is does not really work.
>>>>
>>>> I tried to start the generator and it would not start. I filled up
>> since it was getting low on gas. It will start on prime. I took off the
>> fuel line to carb. No gas came out when I turned it over. I checked the
>> oil level and it is full. What is in the line that has wires going to it.
>> It ran about two months ago.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Art & Doris
>>>
>>>
>>> Art,
>>>
>>> Here are the troubleshooting tips from Duane.
>>> http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/onan/onan.html#trouble-shooting
>>>
>>> I would try jumping terminals 5 and 9 on the control board -- and listen
>> for the fuel pump. If it is ticking then try the start button. The prime
>> button is essentialy doing a temporary jump. It may not continue to run
>> without the jumper in place. If so, and you are sure it is not low on oil,
>> leave the jumper in place and run it. But I would remove the jumper whenever
>> I shut off the Onan.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>> --
>>> Dennis S
>>> 73 Painted Desert 230
>>> Germantown, TN
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123152 is a reply to message #123150] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 18:45 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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| Arthur Mansfield wrote on Mon, 25 April 2011 18:10 |
Two questions
Would the pump off of a 4k Onan generator work. I have a 4k that was given to me. I have never run it but it ran when they took it out of an RV.
What pressure would I need. I assume it would be a 1 to 2 psi pump
Art & Doris
76 EL
On Apr 25, 2011, at 5:56 PM, James Hupy wrote:
> Take the bottom off of the pump. There is a screen on the inlet side that is
> more than likely plugged or varnished up. They are a simple device. If the
> pump motor? runs but it does not pump fuel, then it is one of the valves.
> Cummins/Onan used to have a rebuild kit for the pumps, but you can probably
> replace the whole pump with a facet electric one cheaper than the kit from
> Cummins.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, OR
> 78 GMC Royale 403
>
>
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Art,
Yes, they are the same pump and yes, 1 to 2 psi.
Don't toss the old one, they can usually be revived.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123163 is a reply to message #123150] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 18:26 |
amansfield1104
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2009
Karma: 0
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Member |
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I pulled the bottom of and there was gas at the bottom. I pull the filler and it was clean. I put it back together without the filter and ran the pump. I let it run nothing came out but the pump sounded like it shut down from pressure. That makes me think it is plugged up inside. Is that possible?
Art
On Apr 25, 2011, at 6:10 PM, Arthur Mansfield wrote:
> Two questions
>
> Would the pump off of a 4k Onan generator work. I have a 4k that was given to me. I have never run it but it ran when they took it out of an RV.
>
> What pressure would I need. I assume it would be a 1 to 2 psi pump
>
> Art & Doris
> 76 EL
> On Apr 25, 2011, at 5:56 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>
>> Take the bottom off of the pump. There is a screen on the inlet side that is
>> more than likely plugged or varnished up. They are a simple device. If the
>> pump motor? runs but it does not pump fuel, then it is one of the valves.
>> Cummins/Onan used to have a rebuild kit for the pumps, but you can probably
>> replace the whole pump with a facet electric one cheaper than the kit from
>> Cummins.
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, OR
>> 78 GMC Royale 403
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Arthur Mansfield <1104agm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I checked the fuel line with a hand vacuum pump and get gas through the
>>> line. I have the fueling off. I jumped the 5 to 9 and the pump runs but no
>>> gas comes out.
>>>
>>> I spray starting fluid into the carb and it starts but no gas comes out of
>>> the fuel pump.
>>>
>>> I then jumped both shut off and the pump by disconnecting then and power
>>> both. Pump ran but no gas out of the pump.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> Art & Doris 76 EL
>>> On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Dennis Sexton wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Arthur Mansfield wrote on Mon, 25 April 2011 11:40
>>>>> Getting ready to go to Bean Station. Need the generator going since the
>>> engine AC is does not really work.
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried to start the generator and it would not start. I filled up
>>> since it was getting low on gas. It will start on prime. I took off the
>>> fuel line to carb. No gas came out when I turned it over. I checked the
>>> oil level and it is full. What is in the line that has wires going to it.
>>> It ran about two months ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Art & Doris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Art,
>>>>
>>>> Here are the troubleshooting tips from Duane.
>>>> http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/onan/onan.html#trouble-shooting
>>>>
>>>> I would try jumping terminals 5 and 9 on the control board -- and listen
>>> for the fuel pump. If it is ticking then try the start button. The prime
>>> button is essentialy doing a temporary jump. It may not continue to run
>>> without the jumper in place. If so, and you are sure it is not low on oil,
>>> leave the jumper in place and run it. But I would remove the jumper whenever
>>> I shut off the Onan.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>> --
>>>> Dennis S
>>>> 73 Painted Desert 230
>>>> Germantown, TN
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123171 is a reply to message #123163] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 21:00 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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| amansfield1104 wrote on Mon, 25 April 2011 18:26 |
I pulled the bottom of and there was gas at the bottom. I pull the filler and it was clean. I put it back together without the filter and ran the pump. I let it run nothing came out but the pump sounded like it shut down from pressure. That makes me think it is plugged up inside. Is that possible?
Art
|
Art,
When you say nothing came out -- do you mean that you have the line from the pump to the carb loose at one end and with the pump running no fuel came out? If so I would try a little carb cleaner back into the exit port on the pump. It could be that some restriction has developed --
You probably know to be cautious running the pump with the fuel line disconnected. Even with such low pressure the fuel will squirt a good distance. -- Hold the end of the hose in a cup.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123197 is a reply to message #123192] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 22:14 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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| Arthur Mansfield wrote on Mon, 25 April 2011 21:49 |
Dennis
I tried to put some carb cleaner. When that did not work I got my compressor out and tried to blow back thru the pump. That did not help. I took the pump off and will install s Facet pump from a 4kw Onan gen that I was given. I will try that tomorrow. It looks like it will fit and I will need to make up a connection.
Yes! I had excepted to see gas shoot all over when I tried it without anything connected. I first tried it with the line loose and nothing came out. I did get a drop after blowing back thru the pump but that was all.
I have a lot to do tomorrow. I need to pump down the engine AC and charge it. I really don't know why I mess with the AC since it does not really work but if the gen is out I better have a little cool air. I had the head off when I replaced the head that was leaking water into a cylinder. We will leave Decatur Thursday and head to Bean Station. This will be our check out before we head south to get the air bags replaced then to New York to visit relatives up state and then out on Long Island to get together with some old grade school friends from the 50's.
Art
On Apr 25, 2011, at 9:00 PM, Dennis Sexton wrote:
> nan
>
> amansfield1104 wrote on Mon, 25 April 2011 18:26
>> I pulled the bottom of and there was gas at the bottom. I pull the filler and it was clean. I put it back together without the filter and ran the pump. I let it run nothing came out but the pump sounded like it shut down from pressure. That makes me think it is plugged up inside. Is that possible?
>>
>> Art
>
>
> Art,
>
> When you say nothing came out -- do you mean that you have the line from the pump to the carb loose at one end and with the pump running no fuel came out? If so I would try a little carb cleaner back into the exit port on the pump. It could be that some restriction has developed --
> You probably know to be cautious running the pump with the fuel line disconnected. Even with such low pressure the fuel will squirt a good distance. -- Hold the end of the hose in a cup.
>
> Dennis
> --
> Dennis S
|
Art,
You are headed to the right place for help if you are not able to resolve the issue tomorrow.
Let is know how it works out.
Safe travels.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123209 is a reply to message #123107] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 22:57 |
Richard Brown
Messages: 281
Registered: May 2009
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Before you write off the old fuel pump, try this. Plug the outlet & spray carburetor cleaner into the inlet until full. Turning it upside down works fine. Plug the outlet & let it sit for a bit, shaking it longways occasionally, then drain. Take the bottom off & spray thru the sintered filter from inside out ( replace filter if not permanent type). Hook it back up on inlet side & use vacuum pump to pull gas thru to prime, then connect outlet & try it. The check balls can varnish up if it's been sitting a whilebut this should free them up. I did that to mine & it worked fine & still does.
Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
"DILLIGAF"
Lindale, Tx. 75771
903-881-0192
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Richard & Carol Brown
1974 Eleganza SE
1174 Hickory Hills Dr.
Murchison, TX. 75778
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123228 is a reply to message #123209] |
Tue, 26 April 2011 04:39 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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You have me confused here. In your first posting you said it will start when holding the prime button but not stay running. That tells me the pump is working.
How long are you holding the prime button / switch? If you continue holding the prime switch after starting does it stay running?
Another comment. If you have opened up the gas line from the pump to the tank, then the line is now full of air. It takes a long time to get fuel to pump back up through that hose again.
Third comment. Take a short piece of hose and connect it to the input side of the pump. Then stick the other end in a can of gasoline. Does it pump and run now?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Generator No Gas [message #123268 is a reply to message #123263] |
Tue, 26 April 2011 10:27 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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OK, I misunderstood. I woudl still hook up a short hose to a temporary gas cabn and try it that way. If it runs then you know you have a problem before the pump like a blockage, or it is sucking air, or that solenoid is sticking.
If it doesn't run then you have a pump or carb problem.
We use that same pump Bendix / Faucet as a back up / boost pump on low wing airplanes. It is rare that the pump itself is bad. You can open it up by turning he nut on the bottom to check the internal filter and look for rust and debry.
If you go through the effort to replace it, do nto throw the old on away. It is rebuildable. Send it to me an I'll rebuild it.
There is not much inside it. There is a filter, a coil, a moving piston, a check ball, a couple of o-rings and a spring. Every one I have worked on we got by just cleaning it. On one I did bead blast some rust off of some of the parts.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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