Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Help Troubleshooting Shore Power
| Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #122885] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 10:57  |
thorndike
Messages: 406
Registered: January 2011
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Karma: 0
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Folks,
I am trying to troubleshoot my shorepower in preparation for the Bean Station Rally next week, so I am running out of time to fix it!
Symptoms: When plugged into my house power, I trip the breaker in my house. I took my ohm meter to the cable and discovered that I have continuity across all the prongs of the shore power plug. When breaker in the coach is off, their is no continuity between the positive and negative prongs on the plug.
I am looking for obvious electrical shorts, but haven't found anything yet.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Bob
Five-seven-one-two-three-five-three-five-six-four
Robert Peesel
1976 Royale 26'
Side Dry Bath
Conifer, Colorado
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #122888 is a reply to message #122885] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 11:05  |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Does your coach have an auto transfer switch for the Onan power? If you do and your plugging into a GFI circuit, it will trip the breaker.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Peesel <thorndike@pldsllc.com>
Sender: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 10:57:59
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Reply-To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Help Troubleshooting Shore Power
Folks,
I am trying to troubleshoot my shorepower in preparation for the Bean Station Rally next week, so I am running out of time to fix it!
Symptoms: When plugged into my house power, I trip the breaker in my house. I took my ohm meter to the cable and discovered that I have continuity across all the prongs of the shore power plug. When breaker in the coach is off, their is no continuity between the positive and negative prongs on the plug.
I am looking for obvious electrical shorts, but haven't found anything yet.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Bob
Five-seven-one-two-three-five-three-five-six-four
--
Robert Peesel
1976 Royale 26'
Side Dry Bath
Sterling, Va
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #122890 is a reply to message #122887] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 11:14 |
thorndike
Messages: 406
Registered: January 2011
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Karma: 0
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Hardie,
I guess I should have added an assumption of mine. The generator works correctly. I assumed that had there been a short in one of the systems the generator breaker would have been thrown upon start up.
I realize now that that might not make a difference and my 'short hunt' is now quite a bit larger in scope.
Bob
Robert Peesel
1976 Royale 26'
Side Dry Bath
Conifer, Colorado
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #122891 is a reply to message #122888] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 11:17 |
thorndike
Messages: 406
Registered: January 2011
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Karma: 0
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Ray,
I don't believe I have an auto transfer switch as I need to manually throw the breaker separating the generator from the shore power.
By the way, it WAS a GFCI outlet that popped. Well, at least I know my gfci works! The GMC sure is an expensive gfci tester.
Bob
Robert Peesel
1976 Royale 26'
Side Dry Bath
Conifer, Colorado
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #122895 is a reply to message #122891] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 11:42 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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here is a reasonably complex testing procedure you might want to read to
find the gfi problem
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Hendrickson_House_Electrical_Maint.pdf
this comes from GMCES , a good group to join, because they know how to
publish (not embargo) their tech articles
gene
On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Robert Peesel <thorndike@pldsllc.com>wrote:
>
>
> Ray,
>
> I don't believe I have an auto transfer switch as I need to manually throw
> the breaker separating the generator from the shore power.
>
> By the way, it WAS a GFCI outlet that popped. Well, at least I know my
> gfci works! The GMC sure is an expensive gfci tester.
>
> Bob
> --
> Robert Peesel
>
> 1976 Royale 26'
>
> Side Dry Bath
>
> Sterling, Va
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #122902 is a reply to message #122891] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 13:04 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Robert,
Have you tried to use a NON GFI outlet to see if it still pops that
circuit breaker. GFI's are very sensitive and the slightest path to
ground will cause them to trip. Most of the time it turns out to be
the HW heater element, especially if it has been in service a long
time. Turn off the HW heater either at the switch or turn off CB#2
top right on panel and then see if the GFI Trips.
JR Wright
On Apr 23, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Robert Peesel wrote:
>
>
> Ray,
>
> I don't believe I have an auto transfer switch as I need to manually
> throw the breaker separating the generator from the shore power.
>
> By the way, it WAS a GFCI outlet that popped. Well, at least I know
> my gfci works! The GMC sure is an expensive gfci tester.
>
> Bob
> --
> Robert Peesel
>
> 1976 Royale 26'
>
> Side Dry Bath
>
> Sterling, Va
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #122909 is a reply to message #122885] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 14:14 |
thorndike
Messages: 406
Registered: January 2011
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Well, I seem to have narrowed down the problem.
The breaker box in my coach is between the rear twins in the bottom of the cabinet. Such a convenient place!
I have five circuits, three of which are unlabeled. From left to right I have the Generator, Shorepower (with rocker lock) then I have a single breaker with two circuits/switches, finally with a GFCI breaker on the far right.
Unfortunately, I don't know what circuits 3,4,5 support as they are unlabeled.
First, I turned every breaker off.
I tested circuit 4 by pulling the breaker out and checking continuity between the hot lead and the neutral bar. The result was .2 on the 200k ohm setting consistently. I unplugged the leads from the waterheater switch (at least I think that is what it is, it is the switch below the sink with indicator light) but this had no effect on the continuity reading.
I tested circuit 5 (this is the GFCI circuit) the same way. I pulled the breaker out and testing continuity from the hot lead to the neutral bar. This gave me a resistance reading of 0 ohms. I am not sure which circuit this protects as nothing is labeled.
As I sit here in the coach and type this, I realize that I have all the breakers off or removed, the generator is not running and the shorepower is unplugged and yet, I have power to lights, fans, waterheater, etc. All this must be coming directly from the batteries. Is this normal?
Confused as ever!
Bob
Robert Peesel
1976 Royale 26'
Side Dry Bath
Conifer, Colorado
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| Re: Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #122914 is a reply to message #122885] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 15:42 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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my coach pops gfi now as well. does not blow breakers. my temp fix till i isolate what is going on is to use a non gfi outlet. i have also used a 3 prong grounded outlet to 2 prong non grounded outlet. the gfi is tripping due to voltage on the ground system from the 12 volt side from what my electrician friend tested. still working on problem.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #122915 is a reply to message #122914] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 16:03 |
thorndike
Messages: 406
Registered: January 2011
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Karma: 0
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I'd love to know if/when you find the problem!
I also discovered that the generator cut off switch does NOT work unless the GFCI breaker in the coach is ON. It is interesting that I could start it with the breaker OFF, but couldn't stop it.
Bob
Robert Peesel
1976 Royale 26'
Side Dry Bath
Conifer, Colorado
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| Re: Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #122924 is a reply to message #122915] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 17:38 |
thorndike
Messages: 406
Registered: January 2011
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Just to add another symptom.
When I drove the RV back from New Mexico at the end of January, the refrigerator worked beautifully in gas mode. In fact, it froze my drinks.
We are going to take the rv on a small shake-down drive before the rally tomorrow. We were going to take a load of food for a picnic. We still will, but we won't be keeping it cool in the fridge as it won't start. I am unable to get the indicator light at the bottom of the fridge to light up, thus I am unable to start it using the starter button.
I AM getting gas. I could hear it as my wife pressed the button on the front. This is a Dometic 2510.
Bob
Robert Peesel
1976 Royale 26'
Side Dry Bath
Conifer, Colorado
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #122927 is a reply to message #122914] |
Sat, 23 April 2011 17:52 |
Dave Mumert
Messages: 272
Registered: February 2004
Location: Olds, AB, Canada
Karma: 0
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Here is a site that explains the operation of a GFCI
http://personal.cha.bellsouth.net/j/o/johngd/files/rv/gfi.pdf
The GFCI does not monitor the current or voltage of the ground wire. It
only monitors the current in the hot and neutral lines. If there is a
difference in the current of .005 amps or more it trips to isolate the line.
If your GFCI is tripping it is because there is a current path between the
hot lead and ground. The current leaking into the ground lead is not going
back on the neutral so the GFCI trips.
Using a two prong plug will eliminate the leakage path but the leak is still
going to the motorhome chassis, which means if someone touches the bare
metal of the motorhome they will become the path for the leaking current.
This can be potentially lethal.
I had to remove all the little surge suppressors from my motorhome before
the GFCI quit tripping.
Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Help Troubleshooting Shore Power
>
> my coach pops gfi now as well. does not blow breakers. my temp fix till
i
> isolate what is going on is to use a non gfi outlet. i have also used a 3
prong
> grounded outlet to 2 prong non grounded outlet. the gfi is tripping due
to
> voltage on the ground system from the 12 volt side from what my
electrician
> friend tested. still working on problem.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #123060 is a reply to message #122909] |
Sun, 24 April 2011 16:52 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Robert,
With all the weird features and symptoms you're reporting, I'd be afraid to
offer remote help. Best you do as Ken B. suggests and get him (or me, or
any of several others) to help you check out your systems.
There are some fundamentals you seem to be missing: It's normal for lights,
fans, and (propane) water heater to work without 120 vac, because they're on
12 VDC battery circuits. The GFCI breaker in your CB box is not standard
Royale equipment, so no tellin' what else has been tampered with.
You should be able to run the refrigerator on propane by supplying 12 VDC
for the control circuits -- even if you have to install a temporary wire for
the trip to BS.
Lots of us old GMCers have lots of electical experience; we'll help. :-)
I'll be at BS tomorrow, GLW&CDR.
Ken H.
On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Robert Peesel <thorndike@pldsllc.com>wrote:
>
>
> Well, I seem to have narrowed down the problem.
> ...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Help Troubleshooting Shore Power [message #123114 is a reply to message #123060] |
Mon, 25 April 2011 12:52 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 24 April 2011 14:52 |
... The GFCI breaker in your CB box is not standard
Royale equipment, so no tellin' what else has been tampered with.
...
|
My '78 has a GFI breaker installed powering the outside plug-in. I am fairly sure I also saw one in my '77. I suspect they did come stock from Coachman.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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