Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...?
| [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #120341] |
Wed, 30 March 2011 11:25  |
Ek_Lektro
Messages: 167
Registered: March 2011
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Have the pros and cons of propane conversion been discussed on the list lately?
(if so, please direct me to the date of the archive... and either way, please forgive me for potentially opening a can of worms... thanks!)
Back in 2001, when gas jumped up to $2 / gallon, i first heard about conversion kits where you could run a pickup truck off propane... and i wondered if it would be a good solution for a GMC. Down in Mexico in '03, i saw lots of these pickups, and the mechanics told me it was a simple job, with propane tanks being the only big issue for my GMC. When i posted my questions to this mailing list back then, the conventional wisdom weighed in with the pros and cons facing the engine itself, and it seemed like mostly uncharted territory at the time; and so when gas prices went back down again, i put the topic on the back burner... again.
So now we've got $4 gas in S. California, and all bets are on $5 gas by summer. The cheapest propane supplier here in Los Angeles charges $2.28... when i can get to him... $3.59 seems more of a readily available average,... and U-Haul has no problem charging $4+... (so if we did a conversion, we'd likely need big tanks, to be able to go longer between fill-ups,...)
Beyond saving a little on fuel costs, sure, we wouldn't mind being part of the oil boycott (prices and political ramifications)... while still being able to drive as much as we please! And for my earthy-crunchy friends, of course with cleaner-burning propane there's a bit of reduction on the "carbon footprint".
So with our "fleet" of 2 GMCs for a gig called SolarSonic, let's just say we're a little more motivated than most to open up this topic again, and invest a little $$... as long as it doesn't keep us from climbing hills... and more importantly, blowing up the engine!
here's an excerpt from a pro-propane website, and wondering how much of an issue this might be with a GMC:
Propane will not burn the valves. On older engines without hardened valve seats, this used to be a problem. Even so, this wasn't a problem until tons of miles were accumulated. But on engines designed to run unleaded - no worries.
I recall that Jim Bounds was doing a couple conversions (to switchable systems) by special request, back in '07 or so... And i know that there are some list members overseas who have been doing propane (LP) all along. Apparently in Europe there are certain retrofits available for bigger trucks, which are noteworthy for their improved fuel efficiency (solving the propane efficiency loss), and i'm wondering if any of that updated technology is available here in the states now?
Yeah, gotta consider the 'ole equation for lost "efficiency" of propane, per gallon,... anywhere from 60% to 90% that of gasoline? This could take back a big chunk of the savings at the pump; but i believe the more technical systems like the ones they use in Europe are closer to 90% or better. Anybody want to do a group buy???? LOL...
And then there's the question of where to mount a tank. I wouldn't mind losing one of the 25 gallon gas tanks if there was a propane version that could fit that space without too much trouble. Any clues where to start looking for one of these tanks? Other than that... Is mounting conventional propane tanks on the back bumper safe (like some trailers i've seen) ...? or legal? Heck, could you mount one on the roof and bring the valves down to regular height for pump-ability?
Our 23' Birchhaven has been mostly idle the past couple years, and so given its thirsty 455 engine, maybe this one becomes the test coach.... unless of course there's something to the design of the 403 which would make it a better candidate?
Yep, lots of questions... considerations... First day back at the beach with the GMC... since November
cheers,
Greg
SolarSonic
Los Angeles
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #120344 is a reply to message #120341] |
Wed, 30 March 2011 12:05  |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Greg--I checked our U-Haul prices in the LA area and propane (for vehicles) runs about $3.43. You can go on Uhaul.com and click locations and then propane. The rates do vary by location but seem to be as low or lower than other sources. Sorry for the shameless plug but for those considering conversions, we are everywhere 
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #120373 is a reply to message #120341] |
Wed, 30 March 2011 16:39 |
Gary Casey
Messages: 448
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Greg,
I think you have most of the issues correct. There is no problem with the
engine and the converion is readily available from Impco and others. There
might be a problem with clearance over the engine, though - depends on the
configuration of the components. There are "low profile" fuel tanks available,
but I don't know if they would fit in the space under the floor. Propane has
less energy per gallon than gasoline - I can't remember how much, but I suspect
it has something like 80% of the heating value of gasoline on a per gallon
basis. Propane has a higher octane rating so you could raise the compression to
help out on power and efficiency. The engine will have about 5% less power
because the fuel is entering as a vapor and has no evaporative cooling effect.
Bottom line? If propane costs $3.50 to $4 a gallon I doubt that you could
justify the change on an economic basis. At $2.28 a gallon, maybe, but I paid
$1.90 last December without road tax, so I'll bet 2.28 isn't a realistic price
these days.
Gary Casey, a propane enthusiast
Have the pros and cons of propane conversion been discussed on the list lately?
(if so, please direct me to the date of the archive... and either way, please
forgive me for potentially opening a can of worms... thanks!)
Back in 2001, when gas jumped up to $2 / gallon, i first heard about conversion
kits where you could run a pickup truck off propane... and i wondered if it
would be a good solution for a GMC. Down in Mexico in '03, i saw lots of these
pickups, and the mechanics told me it was a simple job, with propane tanks being
the only big issue for my GMC. When i posted my questions to this mailing list
back then, the conventional wisdom weighed in with the pros and cons facing the
engine itself, and it seemed like mostly uncharted territory at the time; and so
when gas prices went back down again, i put the topic on the back burner...
again.
So now we've got $4 gas in S. California, and all bets are on $5 gas by summer.
The cheapest propane supplier here in Los Angeles charges $2.28... when i can
get to him... $3.59 seems more of a readily available average,... and U-Haul
has no problem charging $4+... (so if we did a conversion, we'd likely need big
tanks, to be able to go longer between fill-ups,...)
Beyond saving a little on fuel costs, sure, we wouldn't mind being part of the
oil boycott (prices and political ramifications)... while still being able to
drive as much as we please! And for my earthy-crunchy friends, of course with
cleaner-burning propane there's a bit of reduction on the "carbon footprint".
So with our "fleet" of 2 GMCs for a gig called SolarSonic, let's just say we're
a little more motivated than most to open up this topic again, and invest a
little $$... as long as it doesn't keep us from climbing hills... and more
importantly, blowing up the engine!
here's an excerpt from a pro-propane website, and wondering how much of an issue
this might be with a GMC:
Propane will not burn the valves. On older engines without hardened valve seats,
this used to be a problem. Even so, this wasn't a problem until tons of miles
were accumulated. But on engines designed to run unleaded - no worries.
I recall that Jim Bounds was doing a couple conversions (to switchable systems)
by special request, back in '07 or so... And i know that there are some list
members overseas who have been doing propane (LP) all along. Apparently in
Europe there are certain retrofits available for bigger trucks, which are
noteworthy for their improved fuel efficiency (solving the propane efficiency
loss), and i'm wondering if any of that updated technology is available here in
the states now?
Yeah, gotta consider the 'ole equation for lost "efficiency" of propane, per
gallon,... anywhere from 60% to 90% that of gasoline? This could take back a
big chunk of the savings at the pump; but i believe the more technical systems
like the ones they use in Europe are closer to 90% or better. Anybody want to
do a group buy???? LOL...
And then there's the question of where to mount a tank. I wouldn't mind losing
one of the 25 gallon gas tanks if there was a propane version that could fit
that space without too much trouble. Any clues where to start looking for one of
these tanks? Other than that... Is mounting conventional propane tanks on the
back bumper safe (like some trailers i've seen) ...? or legal? Heck, could you
mount one on the roof and bring the valves down to regular height for
pump-ability?
Our 23' Birchhaven has been mostly idle the past couple years, and so given its
thirsty 455 engine, maybe this one becomes the test coach.... unless of course
there's something to the design of the 403 which would make it a better
candidate?
Yep, lots of questions... considerations... First day back at the beach with
the GMC... since November
cheers,
Greg
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #120602 is a reply to message #120376] |
Sat, 02 April 2011 17:02 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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If I had some time I'd do a search, but I'm certain I've seen pictures of a coach with big propane tanks on the roof. I've heard that propane runs very clean and I'd thought of piping some to the Onan to run dual-fuel just to keep it clean.
...If I had some time...
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
On Mar 30, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Ek_Lektro wrote:
>
>> Greg, what part of LA are you in?
>
> We're in Silver Lake (between downtown and Hollywood)...
>
> and BTW: my $4+ per gallon local U-Haul propane price was just an estimate, based on the last times i checked,..
> Around here, they've been consistently $1 or more extra per gallon than the cheaper places.., so i figured they must be over $4 by now. Perhaps i stand corrected (sorry!)... I only use them in case of emergencies, and its been at least a couple years since the last time...
>
> If i shop smart around here, i can get $3.93 gas... compared to $2.28 propane...
> So i think a conversion is worth considering...
> But not without investigating
> 1) possible negative effect upon the Olds engines
> 2) any recent developments in propane-powered fuel efficiency
> 3) tanks that fit the coach, and can replace one of the gas tanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #120623 is a reply to message #120602] |
Sat, 02 April 2011 19:18 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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must be these
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=10061&cat=3866
or
http://goo.gl/aBngh
gene
On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
> If I had some time I'd do a search, but I'm certain I've seen pictures of a
> coach with big propane tanks on the roof. I've heard that propane runs very
> clean and I'd thought of piping some to the Onan to run dual-fuel just to
> keep it clean.
>
> ...If I had some time...
>
> Larry Davick
> The Mystery Machine
> 1976(ish) Palm Beach
>
> On Mar 30, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Ek_Lektro wrote:
>
> >
> >> Greg, what part of LA are you in?
> >
> > We're in Silver Lake (between downtown and Hollywood)...
> >
> > and BTW: my $4+ per gallon local U-Haul propane price was just an
> estimate, based on the last times i checked,..
> > Around here, they've been consistently $1 or more extra per gallon than
> the cheaper places.., so i figured they must be over $4 by now. Perhaps i
> stand corrected (sorry!)... I only use them in case of emergencies, and its
> been at least a couple years since the last time...
> >
> > If i shop smart around here, i can get $3.93 gas... compared to $2.28
> propane...
> > So i think a conversion is worth considering...
> > But not without investigating
> > 1) possible negative effect upon the Olds engines
> > 2) any recent developments in propane-powered fuel efficiency
> > 3) tanks that fit the coach, and can replace one of the gas tanks
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #120637 is a reply to message #120341] |
Sat, 02 April 2011 22:14 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| Ek_Lektro wrote on Wed, 30 March 2011 09:25 |
Have the pros and cons of propane conversion been discussed on the list lately?
(if so, please direct me to the date of the archive... and either way, please forgive me for potentially opening a can of worms... thanks!)
|
I converted my '37 Ford pickup to propane about 10 years ago and ended up taking the gas tank out. I never looked back. For the coach you _must_ run dual fuel.
I have a nurse tank at home. (discharges liquid rather than vapor) You need to consider road tax. It is one thing to pull into town and fill the house tank. Filling large engine tanks will more than likely trigger road tax. My nurse tank (In August in Central California) last fill was around $2.70 but then they added $34 road tax. Still cheap for here. Gas will hit $4 soon.)
Range is a problem. Most of the time, especially in warm weather you cannot fill more than 80%. That and a slight drop in fuel mileage means you have less range. The pickup has a 17 gallon tank, and I get nervous at about 150 miles.
I suppose the non hardened seats will cause me troubles one of these days, but so far, no troubles.
My trouble is finding fill places; usually LPG distributors for homes. Buying at gas station that just fills bottles is expensive by comparison. I rarely venture more than 60 miles from home as I don't like having to hunt. I tried the card lock thing for a while. It gave me weekend access but sometimes the unit would malfunction, and that can give you pause... low on fuel and the card lock won't pump.
In CA I took the coach to my LP man and when he realized what I was contemplating, he laughed at me and told me he would have no part of it. I talked inside tanks... he shook his head. I talked tanks on top, he shook his head. But that is just one man.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #120703 is a reply to message #120637] |
Sun, 03 April 2011 15:11 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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George,
I worked with Jerry Potter of Potter Automotive to build a Caddy 500 I will
run on AutoGas (60% propane 40% butane) here in Sydney.
When we discussed the heads he noted that the valve seats in the Caddy were
induction (flame?) hardened and would "probably" be OK. He noted that if I
wanted bullet proof heads to use stellite valve seats and extreme duty
(funny car) stainless steel valves. That's what I did.
IIRC the valve seats in the Olds 455 are also induction (flame?) hardened.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of George Beckman
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 1:14 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...?
I suppose the non hardened seats will cause me troubles one of these days,
but so far, no troubles.
George
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #121052 is a reply to message #120603] |
Wed, 06 April 2011 09:06 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The real way to look at propane use should not be the cost rather the effects on
the environment and getting us off of the gas thing. It will never be "cheap"
to save the planet so why do we use economics to say propane is good or bad. It
is moving us toward the "alternative fuels" thing and that has to be called
good. I think the big question if you want to talk about cost comparasin should
be int installation of and maintence of the system. On that, it costs @ the
same to convert to Lp or propane as it did 30 years ago. I know, we have built
a dual fuel coach. Cost is @ $1000 for the parts, @ $900 for the labor and @
$1000 for a big ole cylinder. So you are looking at @ $3000 to do it. There
are huge speed bumps put in place by our government in running on LP and propane
as motorfuel-- regulation, approvals, fuel sourcing all make it difficult to
rely upon and use. It's not the economics of it to me-- it's all the rest of it
that stands in our way.
Maybe when gas his $5 a gallon we will focus on alternative fuels and something
ways to make it happen. Until then, we're all so focused on finding the
cheapest way to power our vehicles that alternative fuels will not get off the
ground. Just what I have seen,
Jim Bounds
------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: David H. Jarvis <jarvis210@shaw.ca>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 6:13:32 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...?
I ran two 454 crew cab duallys on propane. I like it.
The oil stays clean much longer.
It's still fairly reasonable up here.
--
"I've always been crazy, but it kept me from going insane"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #121068 is a reply to message #121052] |
Wed, 06 April 2011 12:33 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Jim Bounds wrote on Wed, 06 April 2011 09:06 |
The real way to look at propane use should not be the cost rather the effects on
the environment and getting us off of the gas thing. It will never be "cheap"
to save the planet so why do we use economics to say propane is good or bad.
|
Saving the planet is BS.
First of all as soon as Mr Greeen Al Gorre stops flying his private jets to global warming conferences, when the government stops being about lobbyists making money, will I start THINKING about being green...
Secondly, and most importantly, we are NOT saving the planet. The planet will be just fine no matter what we do. If we completely screw up the climate and kill ourselves off the planet will recover is a few thousand years...
We MAY be saving our selves, but there is a long way to go and we are getting there
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #121075 is a reply to message #121071] |
Wed, 06 April 2011 13:12 |
Gary Stoneking
Messages: 42
Registered: April 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Too bad. I was considering becoming a member of this listserve while I look
for a coach. I followed the conversations the past few days with interest.
I was saddened to learn of Joe Mondello's death this morning after learning
of his illness the day I first signed up. I was beginning to feel a
connection with some of the posters, though I hadn't contributed anything
yet.
Now, I see that this (pretty obviously non-political) corner of the web is
not safe from assaults by a vocal minority with an irrational urge to make
literally everything political.
Maybe I'll seek GMC fellowship and information elsewhere.
Best regards,
Gary Stoneking
On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Howard and Sue <hnielsen2@cox.net> wrote:
> I agree.
> Now wait and see who will flame us.
> Howard
> Alpine.
> PS As for Mr. Green did you all know he has a new home on the coast up near
> Santa Barbara?
> Look out the ocean is rising!
>
>
>
>
> Jim Bounds wrote on Wed, 06 April 2011 09:06
> > The real way to look at propane use should not be the cost rather the
> > effects on
> > the environment and getting us off of the gas thing. It will never be
> > "cheap"
> > to save the planet so why do we use economics to say propane is good or
> > bad.
>
>
> Saving the planet is BS.
> First of all as soon as Mr Greeen Al Gorre stops flying his private jets to
> global warming conferences, when the government stops being about lobbyists
> making money, will I start THINKING about being green...
>
> Secondly, and most importantly, we are NOT saving the planet. The planet
> will be just fine no matter what we do. If we completely screw up the
> climate and kill ourselves off the planet will recover is a few thousand
> years...
>
> We MAY be saving our selves, but there is a long way to go and we are
> getting there
> --
> Keith
> 69 Vette
> 29 Dodge
> 75 Royale GMC
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #121081 is a reply to message #121075] |
Wed, 06 April 2011 13:36 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Sorry, Gary,but if you are looking for a group where
everybody shares your outlooks 100%, you will likely
be in a group of ONE!
There are all sorts of viewpoints within this group
and both sides of any view sometimes like to twit the
other side. It's almost always pretty good-natured
and the mild teasing is almost expected.
I wish you luck in finding your "perfect" group.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 13:12:50 -0500
> From: gary@stoneking.net
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...?
>
> Too bad. I was considering becoming a member of this listserve while I look
> for a coach. I followed the conversations the past few days with interest.
> I was saddened to learn of Joe Mondello's death this morning after learning
> of his illness the day I first signed up. I was beginning to feel a
> connection with some of the posters, though I hadn't contributed anything
> yet.
> Now, I see that this (pretty obviously non-political) corner of the web is
> not safe from assaults by a vocal minority with an irrational urge to make
> literally everything political.
> Maybe I'll seek GMC fellowship and information elsewhere.
> Best regards,
> Gary Stoneking
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Howard and Sue wrote:
>
> > I agree.
> > Now wait and see who will flame us.
> > Howard
> > Alpine.
> > PS As for Mr. Green did you all know he has a new home on the coast up near
> > Santa Barbara?
> > Look out the ocean is rising!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Bounds wrote on Wed, 06 April 2011 09:06
> > > The real way to look at propane use should not be the cost rather the
> > > effects on
> > > the environment and getting us off of the gas thing. It will never be
> > > "cheap"
> > > to save the planet so why do we use economics to say propane is good or
> > > bad.
> >
> >
> > Saving the planet is BS.
> > First of all as soon as Mr Greeen Al Gorre stops flying his private jets to
> > global warming conferences, when the government stops being about lobbyists
> > making money, will I start THINKING about being green...
> >
> > Secondly, and most importantly, we are NOT saving the planet. The planet
> > will be just fine no matter what we do. If we completely screw up the
> > climate and kill ourselves off the planet will recover is a few thousand
> > years...
> >
> > We MAY be saving our selves, but there is a long way to go and we are
> > getting there
> > --
> > Keith
> > 69 Vette
> > 29 Dodge
> > 75 Royale GMC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #121083 is a reply to message #121081] |
Wed, 06 April 2011 14:11 |
 |
hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Good response.
Howard
Alpine Ca
26' Canyon Lands
Not quite stock
----- Original Message -----
From: "D C *Mac* Macdonald" <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...?
>
> Sorry, Gary,but if you are looking for a group where
> everybody shares your outlooks 100%, you will likely
> be in a group of ONE!
>
> There are all sorts of viewpoints within this group
> and both sides of any view sometimes like to twit the
> other side. It's almost always pretty good-natured
> and the mild teasing is almost expected.
>
> I wish you luck in finding your "perfect" group.
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 13:12:50 -0500
>> From: gary@stoneking.net
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...?
>>
>> Too bad. I was considering becoming a member of this listserve while I
>> look
>> for a coach. I followed the conversations the past few days with
>> interest.
>> I was saddened to learn of Joe Mondello's death this morning after
>> learning
>> of his illness the day I first signed up. I was beginning to feel a
>> connection with some of the posters, though I hadn't contributed anything
>> yet.
>> Now, I see that this (pretty obviously non-political) corner of the web
>> is
>> not safe from assaults by a vocal minority with an irrational urge to
>> make
>> literally everything political.
>> Maybe I'll seek GMC fellowship and information elsewhere.
>> Best regards,
>> Gary Stoneking
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Howard and Sue wrote:
>>
>> > I agree.
>> > Now wait and see who will flame us.
>> > Howard
>> > Alpine.
>> > PS As for Mr. Green did you all know he has a new home on the coast up
>> > near
>> > Santa Barbara?
>> > Look out the ocean is rising!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Jim Bounds wrote on Wed, 06 April 2011 09:06
>> > > The real way to look at propane use should not be the cost rather the
>> > > effects on
>> > > the environment and getting us off of the gas thing. It will never be
>> > > "cheap"
>> > > to save the planet so why do we use economics to say propane is good
>> > > or
>> > > bad.
>> >
>> >
>> > Saving the planet is BS.
>> > First of all as soon as Mr Greeen Al Gorre stops flying his private
>> > jets to
>> > global warming conferences, when the government stops being about
>> > lobbyists
>> > making money, will I start THINKING about being green...
>> >
>> > Secondly, and most importantly, we are NOT saving the planet. The
>> > planet
>> > will be just fine no matter what we do. If we completely screw up the
>> > climate and kill ourselves off the planet will recover is a few
>> > thousand
>> > years...
>> >
>> > We MAY be saving our selves, but there is a long way to go and we are
>> > getting there
>> > --
>> > Keith
>> > 69 Vette
>> > 29 Dodge
>> > 75 Royale GMC
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #121086 is a reply to message #121081] |
Wed, 06 April 2011 14:27 |
Gary Stoneking
Messages: 42
Registered: April 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
Dear Mac,
You are absolutely right, of course. Except I don't even agree with myself
100% of the time, so my group would have to be measured as a percentage.
I should have kept my opinion regarding opinions expressed on the listserve
to myself. I'm sure that many of the folks on this listservee are a whole
lot wiser and "more experienced in life" than I am. Even though I'm 62
years old, I still have a lot to learn.
Perhaps we'll meet at a gathering some day soon and raise a glass to
diversity of thought and freedom of speech.
Sincerely,
Gary Stoneking
On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 1:36 PM, D C *Mac* Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> Sorry, Gary,but if you are looking for a group where
> everybody shares your outlooks 100%, you will likely
> be in a group of ONE!
>
> There are all sorts of viewpoints within this group
> and both sides of any view sometimes like to twit the
> other side. It's almost always pretty good-natured
> and the mild teasing is almost expected.
>
> I wish you luck in finding your "perfect" group.
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 13:12:50 -0500
> > From: gary@stoneking.net
> > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...?
> >
> > Too bad. I was considering becoming a member of this listserve while I
> look
> > for a coach. I followed the conversations the past few days with
> interest.
> > I was saddened to learn of Joe Mondello's death this morning after
> learning
> > of his illness the day I first signed up. I was beginning to feel a
> > connection with some of the posters, though I hadn't contributed anything
> > yet.
> > Now, I see that this (pretty obviously non-political) corner of the web
> is
> > not safe from assaults by a vocal minority with an irrational urge to
> make
> > literally everything political.
> > Maybe I'll seek GMC fellowship and information elsewhere.
> > Best regards,
> > Gary Stoneking
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Howard and Sue wrote:
> >
> > > I agree.
> > > Now wait and see who will flame us.
> > > Howard
> > > Alpine.
> > > PS As for Mr. Green did you all know he has a new home on the coast up
> near
> > > Santa Barbara?
> > > Look out the ocean is rising!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim Bounds wrote on Wed, 06 April 2011 09:06
> > > > The real way to look at propane use should not be the cost rather the
> > > > effects on
> > > > the environment and getting us off of the gas thing. It will never be
> > > > "cheap"
> > > > to save the planet so why do we use economics to say propane is good
> or
> > > > bad.
> > >
> > >
> > > Saving the planet is BS.
> > > First of all as soon as Mr Greeen Al Gorre stops flying his private
> jets to
> > > global warming conferences, when the government stops being about
> lobbyists
> > > making money, will I start THINKING about being green...
> > >
> > > Secondly, and most importantly, we are NOT saving the planet. The
> planet
> > > will be just fine no matter what we do. If we completely screw up the
> > > climate and kill ourselves off the planet will recover is a few
> thousand
> > > years...
> > >
> > > We MAY be saving our selves, but there is a long way to go and we are
> > > getting there
> > > --
> > > Keith
> > > 69 Vette
> > > 29 Dodge
> > > 75 Royale GMC
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #121089 is a reply to message #121086] |
Wed, 06 April 2011 14:39 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hell, Gary, I have arguments with myself all the time
and sometimes BOTH sides lose, 'cause I am ambivalent
or undecided on many issues.
There are those both older and younger than you and I
here (I'm almost 73) and we do get off topic once in
awhile, but not terribly often.
I don't know of any that have been intentionally run
off, but some have left in a snit and there are a few
that I suspect were not really missed when they left.
I try not to be in that latter category.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 14:27:31 -0500
> From: gary@stoneking.net
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...?
>
> Dear Mac,
> You are absolutely right, of course. Except I don't even agree with myself
> 100% of the time, so my group would have to be measured as a percentage.
> I should have kept my opinion regarding opinions expressed on the listserve
> to myself. I'm sure that many of the folks on this listservee are a whole
> lot wiser and "more experienced in life" than I am. Even though I'm 62
> years old, I still have a lot to learn.
> Perhaps we'll meet at a gathering some day soon and raise a glass to
> diversity of thought and freedom of speech.
> Sincerely,
> Gary Stoneking
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 1:36 PM, D C *Mac* Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> >
> > Sorry, Gary, but if you are looking for a group where
> > everybody shares your outlooks 100%, you will likely
> > be in a group of ONE!
> >
> > There are all sorts of viewpoints within this group
> > and both sides of any view sometimes like to twit the
> > other side. It's almost always pretty good-natured
> > and the mild teasing is almost expected.
> >
> > I wish you luck in finding your "perfect" group.
> >
> > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> > ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> > ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> > ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> > ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> > ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> > ~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
> > ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane fuel conversion...? [message #121095 is a reply to message #121075] |
Wed, 06 April 2011 15:06 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Gary wrote...
Now, I see that this (pretty obviously non-political) corner of the web is
not safe from assaults by a vocal minority with an irrational urge to make
literally everything political.
Maybe I'll seek GMC fellowship and information elsewhere.
Best regards,
Gary Stoneking
End quote...
Don't despair of us all too quickly... Most of these little flares burn out quickly. And the same ones who disagree also agree to help each other with GMC problems.
Stick around, maybe we will grow on you.
But remember, the list and the forum are privately owned and moderated.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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