| [GMCnet] Insulation [message #119037] |
Wed, 16 March 2011 20:11  |
SergeL
Messages: 169
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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OK, I have to ask this because eventually I will have to insulate the inside
of the coach. I'm I mistaking or did I read that some of you buy that
insulation with air bubbles & aluminum type material on both sides?
On my 1973 the ceiling in the hallway between the closet and bathroom has a
drop down plastic ceiling, looks like the same material the front headliner
is made of, at one time it was stuffed with some type of black foam
insulation, unlike the rest of the coach walls and ceiling. When I pulled
the panel down that insulation had basically turned to sand, the same way
Styrofoam turns if left out in the sun but a lot worst.
If the bubble foam material is being used for insulation, am I to believe
that that bubble wrap plastic is going to hold up and not dry up and crack
in time in an area that is prone to fairly high heat and freezing cold in
the winter?
In my diesel pusher we used this type material when we parked to cover the
windows as a sun shield, it work well but after some time of use it would
start to crack, now I know that the difference is that it was moved a lot
but still I wonder how it would do stuck in a wall or ceiling and for how
long?
Am I missing something?
Wouldn't fiberglass insulation or standard foam insulation work better and
for much longer?
Serge
1973 GMC HobbyCraft
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| Re: [GMCnet] Insulation [message #119064 is a reply to message #119037] |
Thu, 17 March 2011 02:24  |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Serge Leduc wrote on Wed, 16 March 2011 18:11 |
OK, I have to ask this because eventually I will have to insulate the inside
of the coach. ...
|
Lots of good ideas on insulation.
But if you are going to pull everything out and insulate, be sure you fix all the leaks first. It is much better to fix the leaks (and roof lights) BEFORE you seal that area up.
Also expect there to be moisture in there from time to time. Pick your materials with that in mind. (i.e. So do NOT use fiberglass (normal house) insulation.)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Insulation [message #119075 is a reply to message #119037] |
Thu, 17 March 2011 07:37 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Serge Leduc wrote on Wed, 16 March 2011 21:11 |
OK, I have to ask this because eventually I will have to insulate the inside of the coach. I'm I mistaking or did I read that some of you buy that insulation with air bubbles & aluminum type material on both sides?
On my 1973 the ceiling in the hallway between the closet and bathroom has a drop down plastic ceiling, looks like the same material the front headliner is made of, at one time it was stuffed with some type of black foam insulation, unlike the rest of the coach walls and ceiling. When I pulled the panel down that insulation had basically turned to sand, the same way Styrofoam turns if left out in the sun but a lot worst.
If the bubble foam material is being used for insulation, am I to believe that that bubble wrap plastic is going to hold up and not dry up and crack in time in an area that is prone to fairly high heat and freezing cold in the winter?
In my diesel pusher we used this type material when we parked to cover the windows as a sun shield, it work well but after some time of use it would start to crack, now I know that the difference is that it was moved a lot but still I wonder how it would do stuck in a wall or ceiling and for how long?
Am I missing something?
Wouldn't fiberglass insulation or standard foam insulation work better and for much longer?
Serge
1973 GMC HobbyCraft
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Serge,
Yes, you are.
Bubble wrap is polyethylene film. It has almost no UV resistance at all, it absorbs every bit it can - to its own destruction. I have a piece of bubble that has been a vibration damper for at least 15 years. It should last that long if you keep it away from UV and Ozone (real Ozone, not California Ozone).
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Insulation [message #119079 is a reply to message #119054] |
Thu, 17 March 2011 08:27 |
George DV
Messages: 132
Registered: August 2004
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Senior Member |
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Here's the straight scoop on insulation.
All one ever does in 'insulating' is to apply/use a media that TRAPS air.
AIR is the mechanism that "Insulates". It is stagnant air that has the most
desirable effect for impeding movement of heat energy; hence retention of
heat within and rejection of heat from exterior.
Do not look at any media as some magic material that in itself has
insulating properties.
When one evaluates the quality of any insulation media, what one buys is the
ability to entrap air. So select a media with AIR in mind. Get the most air
entrapment you can afford. There is no magic.
It follows then that installation technique of a given media is king, most
important.
FYI, the "R" value quoted on the label of any media is a number which is the
INVERSE of the actual number that is directly used in the equation to
determine heat loss.
So, for example an R value of 8 would equate to a number of 1/8 [or .125
decimal equivalent ], which decimal number would be used in the equation to
calculate heat loss or heat retention capability.
Generally heat moved, Q, is:
Q = k [constant] X .125 X [ Temp out - Temp in ]
That is how the "R" value directly relates to heat loss.
Marketing has adopted using the inverse numbers, because they are whole
numbers and the human consumer can relate to comparison of quality.
End of class for today.
-------Original Message-------
From: Corey Jones
Date: 3/17/2011 12:03:27 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Insulation
I am in the middle of doing the foil bubble wrap type throughout my coach. It is easy to apply, and has already made a noticeable difference in both warm and cold weather, even though I am not done.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Insulation [message #119265 is a reply to message #119064] |
Sat, 19 March 2011 12:55 |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
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Senior Member |
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In the process of magic-multi-tool stripping out all the OEM foam insulation in prep for adding the foam board type, I've come to the conclusion that the foam insulation was part of overall leak management strategy. If it's put on densely like that YouTube video of the DIY spray, I can't see why it wouldn't be a pretty effective water leak prevention. Even if water got through some crack or bolt hole in the skin, it's not going to go very far through the foam. Not to say you shouldn't do everything you can to fix leaks at their source on the outside, but it seems a spray foam insulation would give you significantly more margin for error. Too late for me to change my direction, but if I were to do it over, I might do it different and just use spray foam.
J
76 PB
Portland, OR
----------------------------------------
> ... Mike Miller wrote...
> But if you are going to pull everything out and insulate, be sure you fix all the leaks first. It is much better to fix the leaks (and roof lights) BEFORE you seal that area up.
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