Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section
| [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #114922] |
Sun, 13 February 2011 23:51  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
I stumbled on to a cross section of the brass combination valve that replace
the OEM steel valves and have put it on the Photosite along with the
description out of the Maintenance Manual of how it works.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=37696
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #114929 is a reply to message #114928] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 07:49  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Terry,
Thanks!
I have received a lot of compliments on the Type III and quite a few of the
admirers have noted "your Dad must be proud of you for restoring it."
Actually he probably is up there looking down and saying "that Son of mine
sure likes to waste money!" He bought it in 1968 and drove it until he
passed away in 1999 and never spent more on it than ABSOLUTELY necessary.
I restored it because of sentimental value and because it was the FIRST
Electronic Fuel Injected vehicle ever mass produced! Now some of you are
going to say I'm wrong, the Corvette was, HOWEVER, the Corvette had
MECHANICAL fuel injection. The system was produced by Bosch and after the VW
they developed EFI for BMW and Mercedes. It still has EFI and I have 200%
spares and a test box to keep it that way!
The dash is not the original one in the car; it was a NOS part I found on:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/
You're correct I could easily sell it for more than the original invoice
price; however, I doubt I would get back what I spent to restore it which
goes to show my Dad was right! ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Terry Skinner
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:33 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section
Had more fun looking over the type three wagon. beautiful. A friend is
trying to find a wagon to use as a towd for his GMC and I just picked
up a fast-back in Sacramento. Looking at your bill of sale I would
venture to say that you can get more than that right
now...........Terry
PS how did you keep the dash from cracking??
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #114936 is a reply to message #114922] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 10:04 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Nice posting, Rob.
Everyone needs to remember, however, that the OEM-style combination valve is
not appropriate for use with disc brakes in the rear. While it probably
won't matter under most conditions, on a slick surface, the metering of
pressure to the front brakes could allow the rears to lock up first -- a
very bad thing.
Some more interesting brake info for us: Wilwood has just announced an
adjustable combination valve, and a dual piston replacement for our calipers
(I have not checked the combined piston area so don't yet know whether
they're of value to us.):
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/wilwood-brakes-gm-d52-caliper-replacements-4142.html
<http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/wilwood-brakes-gm-d52-caliper-replacements-4142.html>
Ken H.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 12:51 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I stumbled on to a cross section of the brass combination valve that
> replace
> the OEM steel valves and have put it on the Photosite along with the
> description out of the Maintenance Manual of how it works.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=37696
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #114954 is a reply to message #114936] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 12:22 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 14 February 2011 10:04 |
Nice posting, Rob.
Everyone needs to remember, however, that the OEM-style combination valve is
not appropriate for use with disc brakes in the rear. While it probably
won't matter under most conditions, on a slick surface, the metering of
pressure to the front brakes could allow the rears to lock up first -- a
very bad thing.
Some more interesting brake info for us: Wilwood has just announced an
adjustable combination valve, and a dual piston replacement for our calipers
(I have not checked the combined piston area so don't yet know whether
they're of value to us.):
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/wilwood-brakes-gm-d52-caliper-replacements-4142.html
<http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/wilwood-brakes-gm-d52-caliper-replacements-4142.html>
Ken H.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 12:51 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I stumbled on to a cross section of the brass combination valve that
> replace
> the OEM steel valves and have put it on the Photosite along with the
> description out of the Maintenance Manual of how it works.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=37696
>
>
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i like the brake caliper. will you be doing more research on it? will it clear the wheels?
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #114976 is a reply to message #114936] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 16:18 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I had reviewed your teardown / repair series and thought it would help
people understand how it worked as there is a good contrast between the
brass and internal bits. Please feel free to copy it and paste it in your
album.
I bought a new brass valve like this from Jim B when I replaced the rusted
steel lines with new SS ones. It had been removed when Double Trouble was
converted to all Caddy disks by a PO. I have disks on the front and mid
axles and drums on the rear. To date I haven't had any problems BUT I have
never locked up the brakes in the wet. Considering I have drums on the rear
do you think I should remove the spring from the proportioning valve?
Fred,
As far as the Wilwood caliper goes I think you'd need this caliper:
http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperProd.aspx?itemno=120-10936
I did some checking and it turns out that Summit has them:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-10936-RD/
I checked their returns policy and you have 90 days to return it and as long
as it is unused it's no problem.
Would you be willing to buy one and see if it fits? You would have to eat
the cost of shipping both ways.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 3:04 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section
Nice posting, Rob.
Everyone needs to remember, however, that the OEM-style combination valve is
not appropriate for use with disc brakes in the rear. While it probably
won't matter under most conditions, on a slick surface, the metering of
pressure to the front brakes could allow the rears to lock up first -- a
very bad thing.
Some more interesting brake info for us: Wilwood has just announced an
adjustable combination valve, and a dual piston replacement for our calipers
(I have not checked the combined piston area so don't yet know whether
they're of value to us.):
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/wilwood-brakes-gm-d52-caliper-replacement
s-4142.html
<http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/wilwood-brakes-gm-d52-caliper-replacemen
ts-4142.html>
Ken H.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #114977 is a reply to message #114976] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 16:23 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 14 February 2011 16:18 |
I have disks on the front and mid
axles and drums on the rear. To date I haven't had any problems BUT I have
never locked up the brakes in the wet. Considering I have drums on the rear
do you think I should remove the spring from the proportioning valve?
|
Since your rear is 1/2 disk and 1/2 drums just remove 1/2 of the spring. <grin>
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #114993 is a reply to message #114976] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 18:34 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 14 February 2011 16:18 |
Ken,
I had reviewed your teardown / repair series and thought it would help
people understand how it worked as there is a good contrast between the
brass and internal bits. Please feel free to copy it and paste it in your
album.
I bought a new brass valve like this from Jim B when I replaced the rusted
steel lines with new SS ones. It had been removed when Double Trouble was
converted to all Caddy disks by a PO. I have disks on the front and mid
axles and drums on the rear. To date I haven't had any problems BUT I have
never locked up the brakes in the wet. Considering I have drums on the rear
do you think I should remove the spring from the proportioning valve?
Fred,
As far as the Wilwood caliper goes I think you'd need this caliper:
http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperProd.aspx?itemno=120-10936
I did some checking and it turns out that Summit has them:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-10936-RD/
I checked their returns policy and you have 90 days to return it and as long
as it is unused it's no problem.
Would you be willing to buy one and see if it fits? You would have to eat
the cost of shipping both ways.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 3:04 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section
Nice posting, Rob.
Everyone needs to remember, however, that the OEM-style combination valve is
not appropriate for use with disc brakes in the rear. While it probably
won't matter under most conditions, on a slick surface, the metering of
pressure to the front brakes could allow the rears to lock up first -- a
very bad thing.
Some more interesting brake info for us: Wilwood has just announced an
adjustable combination valve, and a dual piston replacement for our calipers
(I have not checked the combined piston area so don't yet know whether
they're of value to us.):
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/wilwood-brakes-gm-d52-caliper-replacement
s-4142.html
<http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/wilwood-brakes-gm-d52-caliper-replacemen
ts-4142.html>
Ken H.
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looks like our 80MM caliper has more area than the two 2" pistons of this unit.
oh well,
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #114997 is a reply to message #114993] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 18:52 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Fred,
DOUH! I shoulda done the math first, eh! ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of fred veenschoten
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:35 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section
looks like our 80MM caliper has more area than the two 2" pistons of this
unit.
oh well,
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #115001 is a reply to message #114993] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 19:19 |
GMC_LES
Messages: 569
Registered: October 2009
Location: Montreal
Karma: 0
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The wilwood 2" dual piston caliper still provides less clamping force than the 80mm calipers. This based on the piston surface area available. 80mm = 3.14" = 7.67sq. In. The wildlife are only 6.28sq. In.
Les Burt
Sent from my iPhone
On 2011-02-14, at 7:34 PM, fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 14 February 2011 16:18
>> Ken,
>>
>> I had reviewed your teardown / repair series and thought it would help
>> people understand how it worked as there is a good contrast between the
>> brass and internal bits. Please feel free to copy it and paste it in your
>> album.
>>
>> I bought a new brass valve like this from Jim B when I replaced the rusted
>> steel lines with new SS ones. It had been removed when Double Trouble was
>> converted to all Caddy disks by a PO. I have disks on the front and mid
>> axles and drums on the rear. To date I haven't had any problems BUT I have
>> never locked up the brakes in the wet. Considering I have drums on the rear
>> do you think I should remove the spring from the proportioning valve?
>>
>> Fred,
>>
>> As far as the Wilwood caliper goes I think you'd need this caliper:
>>
>> http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperProd.aspx?itemno=120-10936
>>
>> I did some checking and it turns out that Summit has them:
>>
>> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-10936-RD/
>>
>> I checked their returns policy and you have 90 days to return it and as long
>> as it is unused it's no problem.
>>
>> Would you be willing to buy one and see if it fits? You would have to eat
>> the cost of shipping both ways.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> USAussie - Downunder
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
>> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 3:04 AM
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section
>>
>> Nice posting, Rob.
>>
>> Everyone needs to remember, however, that the OEM-style combination valve is
>> not appropriate for use with disc brakes in the rear. While it probably
>> won't matter under most conditions, on a slick surface, the metering of
>> pressure to the front brakes could allow the rears to lock up first -- a
>> very bad thing.
>>
>> Some more interesting brake info for us: Wilwood has just announced an
>> adjustable combination valve, and a dual piston replacement for our calipers
>> (I have not checked the combined piston area so don't yet know whether
>> they're of value to us.):
>>
>> http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/wilwood-brakes-gm-d52-caliper-replacement
>> s-4142.html
>> <http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/wilwood-brakes-gm-d52-caliper-replacemen
>> ts-4142.html>
>> Ken H.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> looks like our 80MM caliper has more area than the two 2" pistons of this unit.
> oh well,
>
> --
> Fred V
> '77 Royale RB 455
> P'cola, Fl
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #115005 is a reply to message #114997] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 19:53 |
GMCNUSA
Messages: 283
Registered: August 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 14 February 2011 19:52 |
Fred,
looks like our 80MM caliper has more area than the two 2" pistons of this
unit.
oh well,
--
|
I will be at a Hotrod and Restoration Trade show in March and I will talk to the Wilwood engineer about the amount of "stopping force" with the 2 2" pistons verses the 80 mm we use. The theory behind the 4, 6, and 8 piston calipers is the clamping force is distributed across the pads giving better brakes. I don't know if it is applicable to our coaches verses a 3200 lb hotrod.
Larry Dilk
Indianapolis, IN
76 Eleganza II
Patterson 455,Turbo City TBI,
Just LOVE It!
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #115008 is a reply to message #114976] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 20:26 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
It's mostly a WAG, but I'd say it doesn't much matter whether you have
metering of the fronts in your situation. With the drum rears to act as
"rudders", it probably won't matter much if the centers lock up before the
fronts in very slick conditions. But, I'd still prefer to eliminate the
metering myself.
Ken H.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> ...
> I bought a new brass valve like this from Jim B when I replaced the rusted
> steel lines with new SS ones. It had been removed when Double Trouble was
> converted to all Caddy disks by a PO. I have disks on the front and mid
> axles and drums on the rear. To date I haven't had any problems BUT I have
> never locked up the brakes in the wet. Considering I have drums on the rear
> do you think I should remove the spring from the proportioning valve?
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #115010 is a reply to message #115005] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 20:28 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Seems to me if we had a force distribution problem we'd see uneven wear
across worn pads. Mine have always worn quite evenly. Others?
Ken H.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Larry and Cheryl Dilk <lwd222@msn.com>wrote:
>
>
> I will be at a Hotrod and Restoration Trade show in March and I will talk
> to the Wilwood engineer about the amount of "stopping force" with the 2 2"
> pistons verses the 80 mm we use. The theory behind the 4, 6, and 8 piston
> calipers is the clamping force is distributed across the pads giving better
> brakes. I don't know if it is applicable to our coaches verses a 3200 lb
> hotrod.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #115011 is a reply to message #115010] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 20:44 |
GMCNUSA
Messages: 283
Registered: August 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Mon, 14 February 2011 21:28 |
Larry,
Seems to me if we had a force distribution problem we'd see uneven wear
across worn pads. Mine have always worn quite evenly. Others?
Ken H.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Larry and Cheryl Dilk <lwd222@msn.com>wrote:
>
>
> I will be at a Hotrod and Restoration Trade show in March and I will talk
> to the Wilwood engineer about the amount of "stopping force" with the 2 2"
> pistons verses the 80 mm we use. The theory behind the 4, 6, and 8 piston
> calipers is the clamping force is distributed across the pads giving better
> brakes. I don't know if it is applicable to our coaches verses a 3200 lb
> hotrod.
> --
>
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Ken
I agree. My one time of replacing pads they appeared flat but I didn't check with straight edge or mic them. I kept my old pads because they very slightly worn. I will check them for flatness. My middle axel has a very unique 4 piston caliper so I will check for even wear on those pads.
Larry Dilk
Indianapolis, IN
76 Eleganza II
Patterson 455,Turbo City TBI,
Just LOVE It!
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| Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section [message #115014 is a reply to message #115010] |
Mon, 14 February 2011 21:03 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Agreed, I always clean and lube the shafts of the guide bolts with a smear
of moly grease to make sure the calipers can slide easily.
I started this practice on Harleys as their original disk brakes were single
piston also. They are now multiple piston.
However, I do believe that multiple smaller pistons are better than one big
one. I'm sure I've read why that is somewhere but CRS strikes again!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 1:29 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Combination Valve Cross Section
Larry,
Seems to me if we had a force distribution problem we'd see uneven wear
across worn pads. Mine have always worn quite evenly. Others?
Ken H.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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