| Starting problem [message #112293] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 21:42  |
armandminnie
Messages: 864
Registered: May 2009
Location: Marana, AZ
Karma: 2
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I had a starting problem yesterday that I need some advice on. I had just driven about 100 miles and pulled into a campground and shut it off. When I tried starting again it didn't even make a click - the "gen" and "brake" lights on the dash would go out but not a peep out of the solenoid - even with the boost switch engaged (I know it was boosting because I could hear the boost solenoid). After about 30 minutes it just started like nothing was wrong.
I know about high resistance connections when heat is involved and that is what I am assuming is the problem but why not even a click out of the starter solenoid? Could a bad connection be that bad one minute and good enough to carry starting current the next? Could it be somewhere else like in the ignition switch area?
Armand Minnie
Marana, AZ
'76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
visit my gmc blog
click here to visit gmcws.org
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| Re: Starting problem [message #112294 is a reply to message #112293] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 21:49  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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I could be but more than likely it is a bad / worn starter solenoid or the starter gear that engages the flywheel. If it does it again, open the hatch and see if you here the solenoid clicking when you turn the key to start. If you don't, it could be the ignition switch or the neutral safety switch.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Starting problem [message #112296 is a reply to message #112294] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 21:59 |
armandminnie
Messages: 864
Registered: May 2009
Location: Marana, AZ
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Ken, thanks for the input but I forgot some info. This also happened to me at a gas station in October on the way to Las Vegas on a cool day. I had a new solenoid installed that was only a couple of months old but I jacked it up and put another new one in right by the gas pumps. That didn't fix the problem - like this one, it just went away.
After that incident I learned about using a jumper to eliminate the neutral safety switch so that was the first thing that I tried this time - no help. Also, I had the hatch open and there was definitely no noise coming from the starter solenoid.
Armand Minnie
Marana, AZ
'76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
visit my gmc blog
click here to visit gmcws.org
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| Re: Starting problem [message #112300 is a reply to message #112296] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 22:08 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| armandminnie wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 21:59 |
Ken, thanks for the input but I forgot some info. This also happened to me at a gas station in October on the way to Las Vegas on a cool day. I had a new solenoid installed that was only a couple of months old but I jacked it up and put another new one in right by the gas pumps. That didn't fix the problem - like this one, it just went away.
After that incident I learned about using a jumper to eliminate the neutral safety switch so that was the first thing that I tried this time - no help. Also, I had the hatch open and there was definitely no noise coming from the starter solenoid.
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OK, It sounds like we are down to the ignition switch or an intermittant connection. You could run a tenporaty wire down to the terminal on the starter where the power is supplied to the solenoid coil (small terminal). Then attach a light bulb to it and leave it some where it won't get broken on top of the engine. The the next time it happens open the hatch, turn the key and see if the light bulb lights.
If you have no light when the key is turned to start then you know it is a problem in the circuit prior to the solenoid. Then back up from there with your trouble shooting.
Good luck.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starting problem [message #112301 is a reply to message #112299] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 22:11 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Mr ERFisher wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 22:00 |
rewire the starter to the battery?
gene
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Why?
He said the solenoid coil is not energizing. The circuit does not cone through the big starter cable.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starting problem [message #112305 is a reply to message #112301] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 22:40 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Armand, what I do on most of my vehicles is to run a 12 gage insulated
stranded automotive type wire from the solenoid on the starter to a location
that is easily accessible by opening the passenger side hatch and terminate
it at a 20 amp circuit breaker. When I want to test my solenoid, I use a
remote starter switch from battery positive to the circuit breaker. Pull the
trigger on the remote switch and the solenoid will engage. If it does not,
then you either have a poorly grounded starter or a failed solenoid. Real
handy for bumping the engine around to set the distributor timing, too.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Mr ERFisher wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 22:00
> > rewire the starter to the battery?
> >
> > gene
>
> Why?
>
> He said the solenoid coil is not energizing. The circuit does not cone
> through the big starter cable.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Starting problem [message #112312 is a reply to message #112293] |
Tue, 18 January 2011 00:51 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| armandminnie wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 21:42 |
I had a starting problem yesterday that I need some advice on. I had just driven about 100 miles and pulled into a campground and shut it off. When I tried starting again it didn't even make a click - the "gen" and "brake" lights on the dash would go out but not a peep out of the solenoid - even with the boost switch engaged (I know it was boosting because I could hear the boost solenoid). After about 30 minutes it just started like nothing was wrong.
I know about high resistance connections when heat is involved and that is what I am assuming is the problem but why not even a click out of the starter solenoid? Could a bad connection be that bad one minute and good enough to carry starting current the next? Could it be somewhere else like in the ignition switch area?
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I want to take this a different direction. I'm wondering if you have checked the integrity of the battery cables especially the ground cables. The engine battery ground cable needs to be connected directly to a bolt on the engine block.
Also the next time this happens turn on the interior light over the driver's head. Thi slight is powered by the engine battery. Most other interior lights are powered by the house battery(s). Then turn the key and watch the overhead light. If the light goes out you have a bad engine battery connection (or an almost dead battery). If the light stays on, then the battery cables are probably not your problem.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Starting problem [message #112313 is a reply to message #112300] |
Tue, 18 January 2011 00:57 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| Ken Burton wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 20:08 |
If you have no light when the key is turned to start then you know it is a problem in the circuit prior to the solenoid. Then back up from there with your trouble shooting.
Good luck.
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I am with Ken. If the lights on the dash go out when you turn the key to start, you have a bad connection somewhere. It is letting enough juice, two or three amps, though to light the lights, but when the starter calls for 200 amps, the circuit fails to supply the current. The lights are probably not really out, just very very dim because of the huge draw the starter makes. If they went out, they probably would not come back on after you release the starter.
The weak connection could be ground or positive. Ground may be more likely as the small juice may be flowing through some of the other grounds in a round about manner.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Starting problem [message #112322 is a reply to message #112305] |
Tue, 18 January 2011 08:11 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| James Hupy wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 23:40 |
Armand, what I do on most of my vehicles is to run a 12 gage insulated stranded automotive type wire from the solenoid on the starter to a location that is easily accessible by opening the passenger side hatch and terminate it at a 20 amp circuit breaker. When I want to test my solenoid, I use a remote starter switch from battery positive to the circuit breaker. Pull the trigger on the remote switch and the solenoid will engage. If it does not, then you either have a poorly grounded starter or a failed solenoid. Real handy for bumping the engine around to set the distributor timing, too.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
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Jim,
The only thing wrong with this idea is that I didn't think of it first  .
As stated, it could be useful in many situations.
I am wondering if it might not be neat to have somewhere under the engine room hatch - too.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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